1000 years of Revelation 20.

[CrowCross]

Happening.

Rev 13 hasn't happened yet. You can still buy and sell without the mark.

Happening in a sense that the beast system is currently being built. The great reset is coming.
Centralized bank digital currency is coming.
Universal basic income is coming.
Digital ID is coming.
Digital tracking of you is coming.
A One world government is coming.
A one world religion is coming.

It will all last a "season" ....then the 1,000 year literal reign of Christ will occur.

The good news....Christ rescues His bride from the wrath to come. You can comfort one another with those words....or deny it.

 

[CrowCross]

History is usually understood through covenants, not dispensations.

Are you saying covenants don't change ...get added to, get taken away ....made better?

 

[JesusFan]

Are you saying covenants don't change ...get added to, get taken away ....made better?

Depends if you ask a Presbyterians or a Baptist reformed

 

[Arial]

Yes, one people of God , 1000 years Messianic Age, with Jesus upon earth ruling , and hold to Covenant Premil Theology

What happens at the end of the 1000 years? You have resurrected and glorified believers on earth at the same time and for 1000 years, as unbelievers if you agree with post #20.

 

[Arial]

Are you saying covenants don't change ...get added to, get taken away ....made better?

I will let Scripture answer your question.

Heb 8:5-7 They {OC priests} serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things. For when Moses was about to erect the tent, he was instructed by God, saying, "See that yu make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain." But as it is, Christ has obtained ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there woold have been no occasion to look for a second.

13. In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Marty]

So, Rev 13 has already happened????? OHHHH....KAAAAAY Marty.

I'm post scriptures and all that you can come back with are sarcastic remarks, how about trying to debate respectfully and address the post.

Can you please address what Paul taught? Does what Paul said show a symbolic fulfillment to Revelation 20:4?

 

[Carbon]

I'm post scriptures and all that you can come back with are sarcastic remarks, how about trying to debate respectfully and address the post.

Can you please address what Paul taught? Does what Paul said show a symbolic fulfillment to Revelation 20:4?

@CrowCross ??

 

[Arial]

I never denied Revelation doesn't contain symbolism. NEVER. So, please stop posting as I have. OK?

I never said you did. Is it possible for you to knock the chip off your shoulder and carry on a discussion about what is posted. No one else is being sarcastic, dismissive, deflecting, or touchy.

Revelation also contains the literal. Things that will actually happen as seen by John when he was given a glimpse into the future.

You are very selective with your symbolism and literalism. As I said:

A symbolic vision (and Revelation, portions of Ez and Dan is a book of symbolic visions) is a vision in which the thigs seen are not the realities themselves, but representations that stand for other realities.

The form is visual and concrete (beasts, horns lamps, cities, horses, keys, swords etc. What it refers to is often abstract, historical, spiritual or future (kingdoms, powers, judgments, covenant realities). The objects are signs of something beyond themselves. IOW the image signifies the thing.

Symbolic does not mean "less real" it means the truth is conveyed indirectly through representation.

What does that mean? How does Rev 19:11 begin? "Then I saw heave opened---".

Was heaven literally opened? If not, and it was representing that John is seeing something from the perspective of heaven through representative symbols, then why would the white horse suddenly be literal and not another representative? Are Jesus' eyes literally like a flame of fire? Is he really wearing many crowns? Is he really wearing a robe that was literally dipped in blood? Is there really a sword coming out of his mouth?

Why suddenly is he literally riding on a white horse? And where does it show him coming to earth in that vision?

 

[Marty]

I never said you did. Is it possible for you to knock the chip off your shoulder and carry on a discussion about what is posted. No one else is being sarcastic, dismissive, deflecting, or touchy.

You are very selective with your symbolism and literalism. As I said:

What does that mean? How does Rev 19:11 begin? "Then I saw heave opened---".

Was heaven literally opened? If not, and it was representing that John is seeing something from the perspective of heaven through representative symbols, then why would the white horse suddenly be literal and not another representative? Are Jesus' eyes literally like a flame of fire? Is he really wearing many crowns? Is he really wearing a robe that was literally dipped in blood? Is there really a sword coming out of his mouth?

Why suddenly is he literally riding on a white horse? And where does it show him coming to earth in that vision?

Yes amen

 

[CrowCross]

Depends if you ask a Presbyterians or a Baptist reformed

And some label them..call them...dispensations.

 

[CrowCross]

I never said you did. Is it possible for you to knock the chip off your shoulder and carry on a discussion about what is posted. No one else is being sarcastic, dismissive, deflecting, or touchy.

You are very selective with your symbolism and literalism. As I said:

What does that mean? How does Rev 19:11 begin? "Then I saw heave opened---".

Was heaven literally opened?

Yes. Or do you see it like a retailer turning the sign around in their window?

If not, and it was representing that John is seeing something from the perspective of heaven through representative symbols, then why would the white horse suddenly be literal and not another representative? Are Jesus' eyes literally like a flame of fire? Is he really wearing many crowns? Is he really wearing a robe that was literally dipped in blood? Is there really a sword coming out of his mouth?

What's next? The rider is also symbolic?

Why suddenly is he literally riding on a white horse? And where does it show him coming to earth in that vision?

When you ask..."where does it show him coming to earth in that vision"...I have to ask....where does the bible even speak of the return of Christ? If that isn't the return of Christ....then what is it?

 

[Arial]

Here's an example of an explained symbolism...
12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned, I saw seven golden lampstands,

....So what are the lampstands symbolic of?

The bible gives the meaning.... 20 This is the mystery of the seven stars you saw in My right hand and of the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

Does that mean if the meaning of the symbol is not spelled out then it is not a symbol?

Where you fail Arial is when you claim everything in Revelations is symbolic...then make up your own answer to the symbolism and what it represents.

Since I have never claimed that everything in Revelation is symbolic, and since I have not made up my own answers to the symbols, I guess I have not failed after all. What a relief!

The 1,000 year reign (mentioned 7 times) of Jesus that comes after the 7 year tribulation will be as literal as the rapture and following period of Jacob's trouble. It will be a literal as the events leading up to the mark in Rev 13.
It will be as literal as an object striking the earth and wiping out 1/3....as seen in Rev 8.

You have not proven from Scripture that there is a seven-year tribulation, or a rapture of the saints before that, or that that seven year is Jacob's trouble. You have only given certain Scriptures that you interpret to mean those things, because you believed all those who came before you who said they did. Therefore, you claim of a literal mark and literal events leading up to the mark and a literal third of the population being wiped out by something hitting the earth is nothing but an extension of the preceding interpretations. But if your premise is wrong so is everything that is anchored to it. You are unable to see those scriptures any other way, and I presume do not want to.

But that does not make them right.

If you want to symbolize Revelation....be prepared to give a meaning to the symbols that are based in scripture....less you add your own thought and meaning to the "symbols".

I don't symbolize Revelation. I read Revelation according to its genre which is primarily truths being conveyed through symbolic imagery. Neither do I claim that I have all that imagery figured out. But I have never, ever, just made it up and in the past where I have discussed the imagery with you, I have placed it squarely within the OT use of imagery---just as those receiving John's letter would have done, and without the struggle to unearth it as we have, since they were already very familiar with it. So, your accusation of me just making it up falls flat.

 

[Carbon]

Yes. Or do you see it like a retailer turning the sign around in their window?

What's next? The rider is also symbolic?

When you ask..."where does it show him coming to earth in that vision"...I have to ask....where does the bible even speak of the return of Christ? If that isn't the return of Christ....then what is it?

If you mean the rider on the white horse? Then yes. It symbolizes Christ. Would you have it as Christ is literally riding a white horse?

 

[Bruiser]

Are you saying covenants don't change ...get added to, get taken away ....made better?

The Davidic Covenant has been Fulfilled...

 

[CrowCross]

Does that mean if the meaning of the symbol is not spelled out then it is not a symbol?

Often it is what it is...literal. For some reason if you can't conceive the literal...you make it a symbol.

Since I have never claimed that everything in Revelation is symbolic, and since I have not made up my own answers to the symbols, I guess I have not failed after all. What a relief!

You in a previous post injected symbolism into Jesus on the white horse during His return...second coming.
Then you fail to answer why that same symbolism isn't used by Luke in the boom of Acts when Jesus ascended.
After all the angels tell us Jesus will return like He left. 1 Thes 4:16 describes Acts 1 where Rev 19 Doesn't.

You have not proven from Scripture that there is a seven-year tribulation, or a rapture of the saints before that, or that that seven year is Jacob's trouble.

All one has to do is do the math. You can start with the decree to rebuild the second temple then work out the dates.
Rev even speaks of it.

You have only given certain Scriptures that you interpret to mean those things, because you believed all those who came before you who said they did. Therefore, you claim of a literal mark and literal events leading up to the mark and a literal third of the population being wiped out by something hitting the earth is nothing but an extension of the preceding interpretations. But if your premise is wrong so is everything that is anchored to it. You are unable to see those scriptures any other way, and I presume do not want to.

Riddle me this....then what does a 1/3 of the earth being destroyed mean in your symbolic world?

When have the 4 horsemen symbolically rode? The answer...NEVER.

But that does not make them right.

I don't symbolize Revelation. I read Revelation according to its genre which is primarily truths being conveyed through symbolic imagery.

Did you just read what you wrote????

Neither do I claim that I have all that imagery figured out. But I have never, ever, just made it up and in the past where I have discussed the imagery with you, I have placed it squarely within the OT use of imagery---just as those receiving John's letter would have done, and without the struggle to unearth it as we have, since they were already very familiar with it. So, your accusation of me just making it up falls flat.

 

[CrowCross]

If you mean the rider on the white horse? Then yes. It symbolizes Christ. Would you have it as Christ is literally riding a white horse?

Yes. Christ literally riding a white horse. Why not?

But let's say the return of Christ is "symbolism" like you preach....Where is this white horse symbolism mentioned in Acts 1 where Jesus ascends and the angels say He will return in the same way?

Where is the white horse symbology at the Rev 4:16 rapture?

Jesus returns twice Carbon. Christians are not destined for the wrath of the great tribulation. You should be comforted with those words....instead you deny those words.

 

[Carbon]

Yes. Christ literally riding a white horse. Why not?

But let's say the return of Christ is "symbolism" like you preach....Where is this white horse symbolism mentioned in Acts 1 where Jesus ascends and the angels say He will return in the same way?

Did you forget already that symbolism symbolizes something? So why then does it have to be mentioned in Acts 1?

Where is the white horse symbology at the Rev 4:16 rapture?

Rev 4:16? Better look again.

Jesus returns twice Carbon.

No, there is only one Second Coming @CrowCross

Christians are not destined for the wrath of the great tribulation.

Christians are going through the tribulation, and even later, when it gets much worse, we will be here.

You should be comforted with those words....instead you deny those words.

I'm comforted in my faith in Christ, knowing he has all things in his hands.

 

[Carbon]

Yes. Christ literally riding a white horse. Why not?

But let's say the return of Christ is "symbolism" like you preach....Where is this white horse symbolism mentioned in Acts 1 where Jesus ascends and the angels say He will return in the same way?

Where is the white horse symbology at the Rev 4:16 rapture?

Jesus returns twice Carbon. Christians are not destined for the wrath of the great tribulation. You should be comforted with those words....instead you deny those words.

And yes, by all means, please point out this pre-trib rapture of the church.

 

[Carbon]

And yes, by all means, please point out this pre-trib rapture of the church.

@CrowCross , and please show me where this rapture will be a secret? because I see the "Second Coming" as anything but secret, -For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

 

[Arial]

You in a previous post injected symbolism into Jesus on the white horse during His return...second coming.
Then you fail to answer why that same symbolism isn't used by Luke in the boom of Acts when Jesus ascended.
After all the angels tell us Jesus will return like He left. 1 Thes 4:16 describes Acts 1 where Rev 19 Doesn't.

Not doing something ("failed to answer what that symbolism is") and doing something ("making up your own meaning of a symbol" which is what you accused me of) are not the same thing.

I didn't explain because the specific meaning symbols is not the subject except for the 1000 years. You are asking for something that belongs in a whole other thread. I will start one dealing with that one set of scriptures just for you. But it is not like I have never addressed the specifics with you before. I have in long dead threads. All I got back was scoffing and no engagement with what was said. So hopefully, even prayerfully for the sake of the civility of this forum, this next time will be met actual discussion of what I have presented. And that will require you to demonstrate that I am wrong by something more that repeating your opinion and interpretation.

I don't know if I will get to it today or tomorrow.