With a Reformed prompt, ChatGPT produces amazing theology

[DialecticSkeptic]

I think I may have crafted the perfect theological prompt for the generative artificial intelligence chatbot known as ChatGPT. Using this prompt, I then asked it to explain the relationship, if any, between Galatians 5:17 and Romans 7:15-23. The following was the explanation that it gave me.

Mind blown.

[BEGIN AI-GENERATED CONTENT]​

The War Within: Galatians 5:17 and Romans 7:15–23 in Theological Perspective​

The Christian life is one of conflict, not an external war against flesh and blood but an internal battle between the Spirit and the flesh. Every believer, no matter how mature in faith, experiences this struggle. Two key passages in Paul's writings, Galatians 5:17 and Romans 7:15–23, describe this reality. While they address different aspects of the believer's sanctification, they share a common theme: the war within the heart of the regenerate elect.

Many misunderstand this battle, tending to assume that true Christians should be free from such a struggle, or, conversely, that struggling with sin means that one is still unregenerate. However, a careful, theologically rigorous reading of these passages reveals that this war is not a sign of spiritual death but of spiritual life. In what follows, I will show that these two passages describe the same fundamental conflict viewed from different angles, and that this battle is part of God's eternal decree to sanctify his people for his glory.

Galatians 5:17 -- The Spirit vs. the Flesh​

In Galatians 5:17, Paul writes:

​

For the flesh has desires that are opposed to the Spirit, and the Spirit has desires that are opposed to the flesh, for these are in opposition to each other, so that you do not do what you want.​

​

Here, Paul describes the battle as one between the flesh (σάρξ) and the Spirit (Πνεῦμα). The flesh does not merely refer to the body but to the remnants of the believer's fallen nature, which still exerts influence even after regeneration. The Spirit, on the other hand, refers to the indwelling presence of God who produces holiness in the believer's life.

Paul's point is that these two forces are at war. The result is that the believer does not always do what he desires in accordance with the Spirit's leading. This tension between the desires of the flesh and the desires of the Spirit characterizes the Christian life, making sanctification a process of continual struggle and growth rather than immediate perfection.

This passage underscores the doctrine of progressive sanctification, the idea that while believers are already justified and made new in Christ they must still grow in holiness. The battle against the flesh will not be fully won until glorification.

Romans 7:15-23 -- The Law of Sin vs. the Law of God​

In Romans 7:15–23, Paul provides a more introspective and personal description of this same struggle:

​

For I do not understand what I am doing. For I do not do what I want—instead, I do what I hate (v. 15).​

​

This passage is deeply existential, as Paul describes his frustration with his inability to fully obey God. He expands on this struggle in verses 16-23, where he contrasts two "laws" at work within him:

1. The law of God, which his inner being delights in (v. 22).
   
   ​
2. The law of sin, which dwells in his members and wages war against his mind (v. 23).

This language echoes Galatians 5:17 but with a legal dimension. Paul speaks of a war within his very being: though he desires to obey God, sin still clings to him.

This passage is often debated, with some arguing that Paul is speaking about his pre-conversion state while others insist that he is describing the experience of a regenerate believer. However, the Reformed, monergistic, and confessional reading understands this as the struggle of a believer. Several reasons support this:

• Paul speaks of his inner man delighting in God's law (Rom 7:22), which is not true of an unregenerate person (cf. Rom 8:7-8).
  
  ​
• The struggle Paul describes assumes an awareness of sin that only the regenerate would have. The unregenerate do not war against sin; they are enslaved to it and seek after it.
  
  ​
• This passage aligns with Galatians 5:17, which explicitly applies to believers.

Thus, Romans 7 provides a first-person, experiential account of the very struggle Paul describes in Galatians 5:17, namely, the war between the flesh and the Spirit, or in this case the law of sin and the law of God.

How These Two Passages Relate​

Although these passages describe the same fundamental struggle, they approach it from different perspectives:

Galatians 5:17​	Romans 7:15-23​
Focuses on the war between Spirit and flesh.	Focuses on the war between God's law and sin.
Addresses the corporate experience of believers.	Provides a personal, introspective account.
Emphasizes walking by the Spirit to resist the flesh.	Emphasizes the frustration of sin's lingering presence.
Offers a direct exhortation: "Walk by the Spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh."	Ends with a cry for deliverance: "Who will rescue me from this body of death?"

While the passage in Galatians presents the solution (walking in the Spirit), the one in Romans climaxes in desperation, leading into the glorious answer in Romans 8:1:[/B]

​

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.​

​

The victory over the flesh and sin is secured in Christ, and the Spirit, given in the new covenant, ensures that believers will ultimately triumph.

A Reformed and Theocentric Perspective​

A proper understanding of this struggle must be rooted in God's eternal decree. The battle between flesh and Spirit is not a mere consequence of the fall but part of God's sovereign plan to magnify the glory of his salvific grace. God decreed that his elect would not only be justified but also sanctified and this through struggle. This is not an accident of history but a purposeful, divine design.

In a covenantal framework, this conflict occurs within the context of God's promises. The Spirit's work in the elect believer is guaranteed by the new covenant, ensuring that victory is certain even though the battle is fierce. Christ, the true covenant-keeper, has already secured the triumph over sin. The believer, united to Christ, fights not FOR victory but FROM victory.

This theocentric view guards against both despair (as if we could lose the battle) and presumption (as if the battle does not exist). It compels the believer to trust not in his own strength but in the Spirit's power.

A Battle That Ends in Victory​

Galatians 5:17 and Romans 7:15–23 describe the same reality, namely, the believer's war against sin. But this war, far from indicating defeat, is evidence of spiritual life. Only the regenerate experience this struggle—peace with God produces enmity with sin. The unregenerate experience a very different struggle—peace with sin produces enmity with God.

This war will not end until glorification, when the believer is made fully like Christ. Until then, we fight—not alone, but by the Spirit's power. The Christian life is cruciform, shaped by the reality that, just as Christ warred against sin on the cross, so we also war against sin in our flesh.

Yet, the battle is not in vain. For as Paul declares in Romans 8:37:

​

No, in all these things we have complete victory through him who loved us.​

​

The war rages on, but the outcome is already decided. Victory belongs to Christ—and to all who are in him.

[END AI-GENERATED CONTENT]​

 

[Arial]

I think I may have crafted the perfect theological prompt for the generative artificial intelligence chatbot known as ChatGPT. Using this prompt, I then asked it to explain the relationship, if any, between Galatians 5:17 and Romans 7:15-23. The following was the explanation that it gave me.

Mind blown.

[BEGIN AI-GENERATED CONTENT]​

The War Within: Galatians 5:17 and Romans 7:15–23 in Theological Perspective​

The Christian life is one of conflict, not an external war against flesh and blood but an internal battle between the Spirit and the flesh. Every believer, no matter how mature in faith, experiences this struggle. Two key passages in Paul's writings, Galatians 5:17 and Romans 7:15–23, describe this reality. While they address different aspects of the believer's sanctification, they share a common theme: the war within the heart of the regenerate elect.

Many misunderstand this battle, tending to assume that true Christians should be free from such a struggle, or, conversely, that struggling with sin means that one is still unregenerate. However, a careful, theologically rigorous reading of these passages reveals that this war is not a sign of spiritual death but of spiritual life. In what follows, I will show that these two passages describe the same fundamental conflict viewed from different angles, and that this battle is part of God's eternal decree to sanctify his people for his glory.

Galatians 5:17 -- The Spirit vs. the Flesh​

In Galatians 5:17, Paul writes:

​

For the flesh has desires that are opposed to the Spirit, and the Spirit has desires that are opposed to the flesh, for these are in opposition to each other, so that you do not do what you want.​

​

Here, Paul describes the battle as one between the flesh (σάρξ) and the Spirit (Πνεῦμα). The flesh does not merely refer to the body but to the remnants of the believer's fallen nature, which still exerts influence even after regeneration. The Spirit, on the other hand, refers to the indwelling presence of God who produces holiness in the believer's life.

Paul's point is that these two forces are at war. The result is that the believer does not always do what he desires in accordance with the Spirit's leading. This tension between the desires of the flesh and the desires of the Spirit characterizes the Christian life, making sanctification a process of continual struggle and growth rather than immediate perfection.

This passage underscores the doctrine of progressive sanctification, the idea that while believers are already justified and made new in Christ they must still grow in holiness. The battle against the flesh will not be fully won until glorification.

Romans 7:15-23 -- The Law of Sin vs. the Law of God​

In Romans 7:15–23, Paul provides a more introspective and personal description of this same struggle:

​

For I do not understand what I am doing. For I do not do what I want—instead, I do what I hate (v. 15).​

​

This passage is deeply existential, as Paul describes his frustration with his inability to fully obey God. He expands on this struggle in verses 16-23, where he contrasts two "laws" at work within him:

1. The law of God, which his inner being delights in (v. 22).
   
   ​
2. The law of sin, which dwells in his members and wages war against his mind (v. 23).

This language echoes Galatians 5:17 but with a legal dimension. Paul speaks of a war within his very being: though he desires to obey God, sin still clings to him.

This passage is often debated, with some arguing that Paul is speaking about his pre-conversion state while others insist that he is describing the experience of a regenerate believer. However, the Reformed, monergistic, and confessional reading understands this as the struggle of a believer. Several reasons support this:

• Paul speaks of his inner man delighting in God's law (Rom 7:22), which is not true of an unregenerate person (cf. Rom 8:7-8).
  
  ​
• The struggle Paul describes assumes an awareness of sin that only the regenerate would have. The unregenerate do not war against sin; they are enslaved to it and seek after it.
  
  ​
• This passage aligns with Galatians 5:17, which explicitly applies to believers.

Thus, Romans 7 provides a first-person, experiential account of the very struggle Paul describes in Galatians 5:17, namely, the war between the flesh and the Spirit, or in this case the law of sin and the law of God.

How These Two Passages Relate​

Although these passages describe the same fundamental struggle, they approach it from different perspectives:

Galatians 5:17​	Romans 7:15-23​
Focuses on the war between Spirit and flesh.	Focuses on the war between God's law and sin.
Addresses the corporate experience of believers.	Provides a personal, introspective account.
Emphasizes walking by the Spirit to resist the flesh.	Emphasizes the frustration of sin's lingering presence.
Offers a direct exhortation: "Walk by the Spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh."	Ends with a cry for deliverance: "Who will rescue me from this body of death?"

While the passage in Galatians presents the solution (walking in the Spirit), the one in Romans climaxes in desperation, leading into the glorious answer in Romans 8:1:[/B]

​

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.​

​

The victory over the flesh and sin is secured in Christ, and the Spirit, given in the new covenant, ensures that believers will ultimately triumph.

A Reformed and Theocentric Perspective​

A proper understanding of this struggle must be rooted in God's eternal decree. The battle between flesh and Spirit is not a mere consequence of the fall but part of God's sovereign plan to magnify the glory of his salvific grace. God decreed that his elect would not only be justified but also sanctified and this through struggle. This is not an accident of history but a purposeful, divine design.

In a covenantal framework, this conflict occurs within the context of God's promises. The Spirit's work in the elect believer is guaranteed by the new covenant, ensuring that victory is certain even though the battle is fierce. Christ, the true covenant-keeper, has already secured the triumph over sin. The believer, united to Christ, fights not FOR victory but FROM victory.

This theocentric view guards against both despair (as if we could lose the battle) and presumption (as if the battle does not exist). It compels the believer to trust not in his own strength but in the Spirit's power.

A Battle That Ends in Victory​

Galatians 5:17 and Romans 7:15–23 describe the same reality, namely, the believer's war against sin. But this war, far from indicating defeat, is evidence of spiritual life. Only the regenerate experience this struggle—peace with God produces enmity with sin. The unregenerate experience a very different struggle—peace with sin produces enmity with God.

This war will not end until glorification, when the believer is made fully like Christ. Until then, we fight—not alone, but by the Spirit's power. The Christian life is cruciform, shaped by the reality that, just as Christ warred against sin on the cross, so we also war against sin in our flesh.

Yet, the battle is not in vain. For as Paul declares in Romans 8:37:

​

No, in all these things we have complete victory through him who loved us.​

​

The war rages on, but the outcome is already decided. Victory belongs to Christ—and to all who are in him.

[END AI-GENERATED CONTENT]​

Amazing!

 

[Hazelelponi]

What prompt did you use? Or do you not want to publicize? (The later might be better, I don't know...)

It's an excellent end result...

 

[ElectedbyHim]

This is excellent.

I use Gemini with excellent results on Reformed and Biblical Theology.

Copying and pasting chapters from books that I have read and it will bullet point or give a concise summary.

Amazing tool.

 

[fastfredy0]

I use gotquestion.org often, but this is an interested avenue for research to explore.

ChatGPT question: what facts must be believed as proof that one is saved according to reformed theology?
Answer: You must believe that Christ alone has done everything necessary for your salvation.

... that's basically what I would have said but I would have added that one must believe Christ is God.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

I use gotquestion.org often, but this is an interested avenue for research to explore.

ChatGPT question: what facts must be believed as proof that one is saved according to reformed theology?
Answer: You must believe that Christ alone has done everything necessary for your salvation.

... that's basically what I would have said but I would have added that one must believe Christ is God.

Many will debate that believing Christ is God is needed to be saved.

Never understood that.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

What prompt did you use?

I made it generate its own prompt, and then used that. Here is what I did:

First, I instructed ChatGPT to give me a list of 20 words that would describe a Reformed theologian who specializes in the doctrine of the sovereignty of God.

Then, I told it to use as many of those words as possible to write a four-sentence prompt that would summon this specialist in a large language model. I also explained that the tone of the prompt should match the personality and style of the archetype being invoked.

Finally, I took that generated prompt and started a new chat instance, using the prompt I was given. (Warning: If you copy and paste the generated prompt back into the same chat instance, ChatGPT will offer a confused response like, "That’s a fantastic prompt! It perfectly encapsulates [the example] with charm and wit. Would you like any refinements, or are you looking to use this as-is?")

It's an excellent end result.

I was quite astounded by its richness, depth, and consistency with confessionally Reformed orthodoxy.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I use gotquestion.org often, but this is an interested avenue for research to explore.

ChatGPT question: what facts must be believed as proof that one is saved according to reformed theology?
Answer: You must believe that Christ alone has done everything necessary for your salvation.

... that's basically what I would have said but I would have added that one must believe Christ is God.

I just tell people whatever is in my head...

Lol.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

I use gotquestion.org often, but this is an interested avenue for research to explore.

ChatGPT question: what facts must be believed as proof that one is saved according to reformed theology?
Answer: You must believe that Christ alone has done everything necessary for your salvation.

... that's basically what I would have said but I would have added that one must believe Christ is God.

Here is how ChatGPT answered that question you asked:

// BEGIN AI-GENERATED CONTENT //

In Reformed theology, saving faith consists of knowledge (notitia), assent (assensus), and trust (fiducia). To be saved, a person must believe certain fundamental truths about God, Christ, and the gospel—not merely as intellectual facts but as truths to which they entrust their lives. The key facts that must be believed as proof of salvation include:

God’s Holiness and Justice

• God is holy, righteous, and just (Isa. 6:3; Rom. 3:26).
  
  ​
• He requires perfect obedience to His law (Gal. 3:10).
  
  ​
• Sin incurs His righteous judgment (Rom. 6:23).

Man’s Sinfulness and Inability

• All people are sinners by nature and choice (Rom. 3:23; Eph. 2:1–3).
  
  ​
• They are unable to save themselves or earn God’s favor (Rom. 8:7–8).

Christ's Person and Work

• Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God, fully God and fully man (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2:9).
  
  ​
• He lived a sinless life in perfect obedience to God’s law (Heb. 4:15).
  
  ​
• He died as a substitutionary sacrifice to atone for sin (Isa. 53:4–6; 2 Cor. 5:21).
  
  ​
• He rose bodily from the dead, securing victory over sin and death (1 Cor. 15:3–4).

Salvation by Grace through Faith Alone

• Justification is by faith alone apart from works (Rom. 3:28; Eph. 2:8–9).
  
  ​
• Salvation is entirely by God’s grace, not human effort (Rom. 9:16).
  
  ​
• Faith is trusting in Christ alone for salvation (Acts 16:31; Phil. 3:9).

Repentance and New Life

• True faith includes repentance—a turning from sin to God (Mark 1:15; Acts 2:38).
  
  ​
• Those who are truly saved bear fruit in keeping with repentance (Matt. 7:17–18).
  
  ​
• A believer is a new creation in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17).

The Perseverance of the Saints

• Those truly saved will persevere in faith to the end (John 10:28–29; Phil. 1:6).
  
  ​
• God preserves His people and sanctifies them (Rom. 8:29–30).

Faith as Proof of Salvation

Reformed theology teaches that assurance of salvation is grounded in:

1. The objective promises of Scripture—God’s Word declares that those who believe in Christ will be saved (John 3:16; Rom. 10:9).
   
   ​
2. The inward testimony of the Holy Spirit—The Spirit confirms believers as God’s children (Rom. 8:16).
   
   ​
3. The evidence of a changed life—While not the basis of salvation, good works and perseverance are fruits of true faith (James 2:14–26; 1 John 2:3–6).

Ultimately, salvation is demonstrated by a living faith in Christ, which produces repentance, love for God, and obedience from the heart.

// END AI-GENERATED CONTENT //

 

[Arial]

I have never used it so I brought ChatGPT on my laptop and just as a test ask: What is the Reformed position on free will.

This is what I got.

ChatGPT said:​

Reformed theology, rooted in the teachings of John Calvin and other Reformers, presents a nuanced understanding of free will that emphasizes God's sovereignty and human responsibility. According to this perspective, while humans possess the ability to make choices, these choices are influenced by their nature, which is affected by sin.Credo Magazine+1Salty Believer+1

R.C. Sproul, a prominent Reformed theologian, explains that humans make choices freely every day. However, these choices do not contradict God's sovereignty. He suggests that while we choose what we want, our desires are shaped by our nature, which, in turn, is influenced by God's sovereign will. Ligonier Ministries

Furthermore, Reformed theology distinguishes between 'free will' and 'free agency.' While individuals are free to make choices, their ability to choose is bound by their sinful nature. This means that, apart from divine intervention, humans are not free to choose what is spiritually good or pleasing to God. This concept aligns with the doctrine of total depravity, which asserts that sin has affected every part of a person, including their will. Reddit+6The Uncommon Pursuit Community+6Wikipedia+6

The Westminster Confession of Faith, a key Reformed document, states that God, from all eternity, has freely and unchangeably ordained whatever comes to pass. This underscores the belief that God's will is the ultimate cause of all events, including human decisions. Wikipedia

In summary, the Reformed position on free will holds that humans do have the ability to make choices, but these choices are not made in a vacuum. They are influenced by human nature, which is affected by sin, and are ultimately under the sovereignty of God. Therefore, while humans are responsible for their choices, their will is not entirely free in the sense of being independent of God's sovereign plan.The Gospel Coalition | Canada+11Wikipedia+11The Uncommon Pursuit Community+11Reformation 21

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

I have never used it so I brought ChatGPT on my laptop and just as a test ask: What is the Reformed position on free will.

This is what I got. ...

Your thoughts on what it produced?

 

[fastfredy0]

Here is how ChatGPT answered that question you asked:

I got an answer similar to yours. I summarized what ChatGPT said post #5 with what I thought were the most vital facts one needs to be know to be saved. For example, the following ChatGPT statement is true but knowledge of this fact is not essential to one's salvation IMO so I did not include it, whereas knowledge of Christ is essential.

those truly saved will persevere in faith to the end

 

[fastfredy0]

Your thoughts on what it produced?

In regards to reformed thoughts on "free will" I thought ChatGPT hit the nail on the head.

 

[fastfredy0]

ChatGPT question: what facts must be believed as proof that one is saved according to reformed theology?
Answer: You must believe that Christ alone has done everything necessary for your salvation.

... that's basically what I would have said but I would have added that one must believe Christ is God.

So, I decided to inquire further and asked ChatGpt: According to reformed theology, is it necessary to believe Jesus is God in order to be saved?

... and the answer was ...

Yes, according to Reformed theology, believing that Jesus is God is essential for salvation. Reformed theology emphasizes that salvation comes by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, and that this faith must be in the true Christ as revealed in Scripture.
Biblical and Theological Basis

1. Jesus' Divine Nature – Reformed theology holds to the doctrine of the Trinity, affirming that Jesus is fully God and fully man (John 1:1, Colossians 2:9). Denying His deity would mean rejecting the biblical revelation of who Jesus is.
2. Salvation by Faith in the True Christ – Faith in Christ is not just a general belief but must be in the true, biblical Christ (Romans 10:9-10, John 8:24). Jesus Himself said, "Unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24), which many interpret as a claim to divinity.
3. Historical Creeds and Confessions – The Reformed tradition affirms the early ecumenical creeds (such as the Nicene Creed) and confessions (such as the Westminster Confession of Faith and the Belgic Confession), all of which uphold Jesus' deity as a core doctrine.

Conclusion
In Reformed theology, denying Jesus' deity is seen as rejecting the true gospel. Since salvation is by faith in Christ, and Christ is God, belief in His deity is necessary for true, saving faith.

... so I at first asked ChatGPT: what facts must be believed as proof that one is saved according to reformed theology?
... and it didn't mention the need to believe Christ is God
... but when I asked ChatGPT if one must believe Christ is God to be saved, ChatGPT said "yes"
... interesting

So I thought, does ChatGPT think I must acknowledge any fact about Christ to be saved so I asked: According to reformed theology, is it necessary to believe Jesus was born in Bethlehem in order to be saved?
.... ChatGPT answered: No, according to Reformed theology, it is not necessary to specifically believe that Jesus was born in Bethlehem in order to be saved. Salvation in Reformed theology comes through faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, not through a detailed knowledge of all historical facts about His earthly life.

next question for ChatGPT: According to reformed theology, is believing one is saved by faith and works proof that one is not saved?

Answer: Yes, according to Reformed theology, believing that one is saved by faith and works is strong evidence that a person does not truly understand or possess saving faith. Reformed theology teaches that salvation is by grace alone (sola gratia), through faith alone (sola fide), in Christ alone (solus Christus)—not by a combination of faith and works.

Why Faith Plus Works Is a Serious Error in Reformed Theology​

1. Justification Is by Faith Alone, Not Faith Plus Works – The Bible clearly teaches that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the law (Romans 3:28, Galatians 2:16, Ephesians 2:8-9). Reformed theology holds that works are the result of salvation, not the cause of it (James 2:17-18).
2. Trusting in Works Means Trusting in Self, Not Christ – If someone believes that their works contribute to their salvation, they are not fully relying on Christ’s finished work on the cross. Paul warns that adding works to faith is a false gospel (Galatians 1:6-9; Galatians 5:4).
3. The Reformed Doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints – True believers, according to Reformed theology, will persevere in the true gospel. If someone persistently believes in salvation by faith and works, it suggests they do not yet have true, saving faith (2 Corinthians 13:5).

Does This Mean Someone Who Believes in Faith + Works Cannot Be Saved?

• If they repent and trust in Christ alone, they can be saved. Many people start with a misunderstanding of salvation but later come to believe in justification by faith alone.
• However, if they persist in believing that their works contribute to salvation, this indicates they are trusting in something other than Christ alone, which is incompatible with saving faith.

Conclusion
In Reformed theology, believing in faith plus works as a means of salvation is strong evidence that a person does not truly understand the gospel. While believers are called to do good works (Ephesians 2:10), these works flow from salvation rather than contribute to it. A person is saved by faith alone, but true faith is never alone—it produces good works as evidence of salvation, not as a requirement for it.



Final Question: Why did my wife married me?
Answer: Expletive Deleted ..... j/k

 

[makesends]

Final Question: Why did my wife married me?
Answer: Expletive Deleted ..... j/k

God came to Adam in the cool of the day, and says, "Well, Adam, what do you think of the woman I gave you?"

Adam says, "OH YEAH! SHE is REALLY something ELSE! I mean, WHY did you make her so BEAUTIFUL?"

God: "Oh, that is so you will love her."

Adam: "Ok, I guess I can see that, and, thanks, really! But--and I don't mean to complain, but--why did you make her so STUPID??"

God: "OH! That's just so she will love you!"

 

[Arial]

Your thoughts on what it produced?

As a definition, I thought it was very good at covering the bases. It would open up a discussion based on the facts of the Reformed position, as opposed to what one might presume is that position based on their aversion to it.

For example, it would likely not prevent anyone from saying something like, "Reformed theology teaches that God made Hitler do what he did." but it would show that the Reformed position on "free will" does no such thing.

 

[makesends]

For example, it would likely not prevent anyone from saying something like, "Reformed theology teaches that God made Hitler do what he did." but it would show that the Reformed position on "free will" does no such thing.

Not to slide off track, here, but one of the big things I consider a difference between Calvinism/Reformed vs pretty much everyone else, is in the worldview. Not only are concepts and Scripture seen from a different point-of-view, but single words (though in context) don't mean the same thing.

The word, "made", as you use it above, to the Reformed, (or to me, anyway), doesn't mean the same thing in "God made Hitler do what he did" as it does to others. Those who insist on Self-Determinism would equate that word with "forced". I use the neutral but precise-enough, "caused that...". When God made Adam and Eve, the self-determinist hems and haws about calling that "forced", and rightly so, because whether it was irresistible on Adam and Eve's part is irrelevant to the account, so why demand that the Reformed position on regeneration is forcing?

What's funny though, is that they often don't realize they themselves use words like, "made", and, "God's will", in several different ways. But that is why arguments with them get so noisy. It's hard to button them down on just what they mean, and they will use their vagueness of definition to slough back and forth between uses, to defend their positions.

 

[Arial]

Here is a good one and an excellent FYI
chatgpt.com/c/67f02a63-f524-8008-8c68-df947f6a7fc3

 

[ElectedbyHim]

Here is a good one and an excellent FYI
chatgpt.com/c/67f02a63-f524-8008-8c68-df947f6a7fc3

It says unable to load conversation.

 

[Arial]

Not to slide off track, here, but one of the big things I consider a difference between Calvinism/Reformed vs pretty much everyone else, is in the worldview. Not only are concepts and Scripture seen from a different point-of-view, but single words (though in context) don't mean the same thing.

The word, "made", as you use it above, to the Reformed, (or to me, anyway), doesn't mean the same thing in "God made Hitler do what he did" as it does to others. Those who insist on Self-Determinism would equate that word with "forced". I use the neutral but precise-enough, "caused that...". When God made Adam and Eve, the self-determinist hems and haws about calling that "forced", and rightly so, because whether it was irresistible on Adam and Eve's part is irrelevant to the account, so why demand that the Reformed position on regeneration is forcing?

What's funny though, is that they often don't realize they themselves use words like, "made", and, "God's will", in several different ways. But that is why arguments with them get so noisy. It's hard to button them down on just what they mean, and they will use their vagueness of definition to slough back and forth between uses, to defend their positions.

I understand perfectly well what they mean when they say "God made Hitler do what he did." They are accusing Reformed theology of presenting a God who is responsible for man's evil acts. Personally I think arguments and theories on determinism go too far in trying to pin down things that should be accepted through faith, as it is in essence trying to define and grab hold of what belongs to the Infinite self existent with the finite created mind. But those who are opposed to a God who is Sovereign over all, and who governs all, and is always working according to his own purposes, without ever consulting humans, asking their permission, or serving them, but according to his own glory and perfection, (even though they give lip service to believing some of these things) demand that what cannot be grasped or explained be grasped and explained. They will never be satisfied or matter how many "causes" or "determines" are added to the explanation, and it will never reach the depths of what is in God. Of what the real truth and nothing but the truth, is, in God on the matter. It is the same reason no matter how many scriptures are given, no matter how much exegesis or exposition is presented, a Unitarian will still scoff and say we hide behind the final answer. That being, that the finite cannot fully understand the infinite. Even though that is an obviously true statement. We take the Trinity on faith because of what he does tell us, (and because it is a revealed truth), not because we can describe it or fully comprehend it.

Why do we not do the same with determinism and first cause?

Done venting.