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Why does the natural person reject the preaching of the cross as foolishness?

SoteriologyA1

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1️⃣ Not enough information in the preaching

2️⃣ Mental handicap (inability to comprehend the message)

3️⃣ Sin nature (moral disposition of rejecting God)

Vote and explain your reasoning!
 
1️⃣ Not enough information in the preaching

2️⃣ Mental handicap (inability to comprehend the message)

3️⃣ Sin nature (moral disposition of rejecting God)

Vote and explain your reasoning!
Unfortunately you don't provide a place to vote. I'm afraid I cannot tell you how to do it as I have never posted a Questionnaire.

Paul explains why the natural man does not receive the things of God:

“But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.” (1Co 2:14-16 NKJV)

The natural man is elsewhere described as "dead in trespasses and sins." If the natural man is spiritually dead, how can he receive spiritual truths?
 
Paul explains why the natural man does not receive the things of God:

“But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.” (1Co 2:14-16 NKJV)

The natural man is elsewhere described as "dead in trespasses and sins." If the natural man is spiritually dead, how can he receive spiritual truths?

Which of the three options does your answer fall under?

1️⃣ Not enough information in the preaching
2️⃣ Mental handicap (inability to comprehend the message)
3️⃣ Sin nature (moral disposition of rejecting God)"
 
Which of the three options does your answer fall under?

1️⃣ Not enough information in the preaching
2️⃣ Mental handicap (inability to comprehend the message)
3️⃣ Sin nature (moral disposition of rejecting God)"
#4. . . .No faithful power as it is written that is needed to believe God not seen.
We have his poer that works in us but would never say it is of us powerless ones
Salvation a work of his faithful "let there be and it was good. A good work of His faithfulness or called labor of love

The power to create language. The power to define words etched in stone. A written vocabulary. Not pictures Hieroglyphs without understanding.

Let there be.

Let, interpreted . . .Let not prevent or forbid; allow:

There, interpreted . . .in, at, or to that place or position:

Be, interpreted ,. . . . occur, take place.

Change the meaning of one word, another gospel

Let, interpreted . . . prevent or forbid; not allow:

There, interpreted . . .absent from in, at, or to a place or position:

Be, interpreted ,. . . . never occur, take place. imagine

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us
 
#4. . . .No faithful power as it is written that is needed to believe God not seen.
We have his poer that works in us but would never say it is of us powerless ones
Salvation a work of his faithful "let there be and it was good. A good work of His faithfulness or called labor of love

The power to create language. The power to define words etched in stone. A written vocabulary. Not pictures Hieroglyphs without understanding.

Let there be.

Let, interpreted . . .Let not prevent or forbid; allow:

There, interpreted . . .in, at, or to that place or position:

Be, interpreted ,. . . . occur, take place.

Change the meaning of one word, another gospel

Let, interpreted . . . prevent or forbid; not allow:

There, interpreted . . .absent from in, at, or to a place or position:

Be, interpreted ,. . . . never occur, take place. imagine

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us

It sounds like you’re emphasizing that faith itself is not something we produce, but rather something that comes from God’s power at work in us. If that’s what you’re saying, then we’re on the same page—salvation is not from man, but a work of God’s faithfulness, just as you referenced (2 Cor. 4:7).

Would you say, then, that the natural person’s rejection of the gospel is due to:

1️⃣ A lack of information in the preaching?
2️⃣ A mental handicap preventing comprehension?
3️⃣ A sin nature—a moral disposition that refuses to love and trust God?
 
First, for future reference, the option to have a poll does not exist in every board. In the boards where the option to set up a poll does exist (like the Theology Questions board), there is a tab that appears when you place your cursor in the window titled "Thread title." When you select the "Poll" tab a decision tree appears in which you can write in your question, list the specific options, and select whether or not respondents can change their vote or not, and when to close the poll (the poll, not the discussion).
1️⃣ Not enough information in the preaching

2️⃣ Mental handicap (inability to comprehend the message)

3️⃣ Sin nature (moral disposition of rejecting God)

Vote and explain your reasoning!
All three explain why the "natural" person rejects the preaching of the cross as foolishness. However, the specific wording of the question is, presumably, a reference to 1 Corinthians 2:14. since it mentions the "natural man" and his perception of spiritual things as "foolishness."

1 Corinthians 2:10-14
For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

It is important 1) to acknowledge and correctly apply the context(s), and 2) acknowledge the inherently inferential nature of extrapolating from and applying this verse to the rejection of the gospel (the preaching of the cross). Th passage was written to believers, saved individuals who already have the Spirit of God at work within them. Neither is Paul writing about evangelizing those dead in and enslaved to sin. Paul is writing about how Christians receive and grasp the apostles' teaching. In other words, he is making a comparison and drawing a contrast between his readers and those who do not have the Spirit, those he calls the "natural" man. This is why the NIV takes liberty with the text and translates verse 14 to say, "the person without the Spirit." The Greek word is "psychikos," which is best translated as "soulish." The soulish Christian doesn't accept the things of the Spirit. Not accepting them, he cannot, logically, understand them. To the degree rejection is the antithesis of acceptance, the rejection is implicit.

The passage does not actually specify "the preaching of the cross."

However, since the preaching of the cross is inherently and by definition a spiritual matter, we can exegetically, rationally, reasonably, infer the verse applies to the unregenerate non-believer's receipt of the gospel.

There are a host of verse found throughout the Bible that inform the "why" the natural person rejects the preaching of the cross and deems it foolishness. A sample of those verse would include (but is not limited to...),

John 14:16-17
I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

Romans 8:5-9
For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind of flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Ephesians 4:17-24
So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. But you did not learn Christ in this way, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

1 John 4:6
We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
 
@Josheb,
You’ve provided a thorough response, and I appreciate the depth of engagement with the text. I fully agree that context is crucial, and that Paul’s focus in 1 Corinthians 2:14 is distinguishing between those who have the Spirit and those who do not. As you rightly pointed out, while the passage is not directly about evangelism, it does establish a broader principle regarding the natural person's rejection of spiritual truth—which, of course, includes the gospel.

Looking at the other passages you referenced (Romans 8, Ephesians 4, 1 John 4, John 14), a common theme emerges: The natural person's rejection of truth is consistently tied to a heart problem—not a lack of information, nor a cognitive handicap that would remove responsibility.
  • Romans 8:7 says the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God—not ignorant, but resistant.
  • Ephesians 4:18 describes darkened understanding due to hardness of heart—not lack of revelation, but a willful exclusion from the life of God.
  • 1 John 4:6 makes it clear that those "not from God" do not listen—not because they can't comprehend, but because they do not belong to Him.
This pattern seems to suggest that sin itself is the result of a sin nature, and that rejection of truth is a product of an already rebellious heart rather than insufficient data or a mental limitation.

Would you agree, then, that every verse pointing to a negative response to God's truth ultimately ties that rejection to the moral state of the heart—not to a lack of revelation or an inability that would remove responsibility?
 
@Josheb,
You’ve provided a thorough response, and I appreciate the depth of engagement with the text. I fully agree that context is crucial, and that Paul’s focus in 1 Corinthians 2:14 is distinguishing between those who have the Spirit and those who do not. As you rightly pointed out, while the passage is not directly about evangelism, it does establish a broader principle regarding the natural person's rejection of spiritual truth—which, of course, includes the gospel.

Looking at the other passages you referenced (Romans 8, Ephesians 4, 1 John 4, John 14), a common theme emerges: The natural person's rejection of truth is consistently tied to a heart problem—not a lack of information, nor a cognitive handicap that would remove responsibility.
  • Romans 8:7 says the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God—not ignorant, but resistant.
  • Ephesians 4:18 describes darkened understanding due to hardness of heart—not lack of revelation, but a willful exclusion from the life of God.
  • 1 John 4:6 makes it clear that those "not from God" do not listen—not because they can't comprehend, but because they do not belong to Him.
This pattern seems to suggest that sin itself is the result of a sin nature, and that rejection of truth is a product of an already rebellious heart rather than insufficient data or a mental limitation.
I would amend that underlined portion to say their inability to accept the truth but that could be hair-splitting. The synergist, especially the Provisionist or Traditionalist will say the sinner has an inherent ability to hear, receive, and understand the gospel but I reject that position. We are sinful because we sin, and we sin because we're sinful... and sin is much more despotic than God.
Would you agree, then, that every verse pointing to a negative response to God's truth ultimately ties that rejection to the moral state of the heart—not to a lack of revelation or an inability that would remove responsibility?
Again, I would frame it as an inability because the matter of rejection implies some point in which the preaching of the cross has been heard, has been understood, has been considered and the willfully rejected. I do not find scripture to support any of that. God gives hearing. God gives knowledge and understanding. God gives faith. It is God who works in the saint to do His will. The mind of flesh is hostile and cannot please God. Those who deny God, refusing to see His power at work in creation (the cross would be God's work in creation) think futilely, their hearts are darkened, and God has given them over to their own desires (Rom. 1).

Otherwise, yes, the rejection of Christ is necessarily and inescapably tied too the moral state of the heart.

John 3:16-21 NIV
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

No one is born believing in Jesus 😯. It would be nice if that were not the case, but it is. To make things worse, the only people in the Bible who ever "walk in the light" are those people in whom God is already working to that effect. There isn't a single example of anyone waking up one day and deciding in their sin-ridden flesh, "Hey, I think I will walk in the light today," especially anyone who heart is darkened and whose thinking is futile. No one seeks God.
 
1️⃣ Not enough information in the preaching

2️⃣ Mental handicap (inability to comprehend the message)

3️⃣ Sin nature (moral disposition of rejecting God)

Vote and explain your reasoning!

Actually? Potentially all 3.

All is in His Hand, nothing will happen beyond God's perfect timing and way, but the sin nature makes everything more difficult to understand from the start, then when you add in poor or just plain incorrect explanations of salvation your compounding existing issues.

Also when you don't share the Gospel you might be depriving someone of hearing it who needs to etc etc.

There's certainly Bible verses about leading people astray:

Matthew 18:6-7:
"If anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble."

There's certainly more than one way to view it but ultimately we don't believe in Jesus for salvation because we are lost in sin and have a sin nature that chooses evil continually.

While sharing the Gospel is in large part right time, it's also the right Gospel spoken correctly also though.

Too many heretics.
 
I would amend that underlined portion to say their inability to accept the truth but that could be hair-splitting. The synergist, especially the Provisionist or Traditionalist will say the sinner has an inherent ability to hear, receive, and understand the gospel but I reject that position. We are sinful because we sin, and we sin because we're sinful... and sin is much more despotic than God.

Again, I would frame it as an inability because the matter of rejection implies some point in which the preaching of the cross has been heard, has been understood, has been considered and the willfully rejected. I do not find scripture to support any of that. God gives hearing. God gives knowledge and understanding. God gives faith. It is God who works in the saint to do His will. The mind of flesh is hostile and cannot please God. Those who deny God, refusing to see His power at work in creation (the cross would be God's work in creation) think futilely, their hearts are darkened, and God has given them over to their own desires (Rom. 1).

Otherwise, yes, the rejection of Christ is necessarily and inescapably tied too the moral state of the heart.

John 3:16-21 NIV
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

No one is born believing in Jesus 😯. It would be nice if that were not the case, but it is. To make things worse, the only people in the Bible who ever "walk in the light" are those people in whom God is already working to that effect. There isn't a single example of anyone waking up one day and deciding in their sin-ridden flesh, "Hey, I think I will walk in the light today," especially anyone who heart is darkened and whose thinking is futile. No one seeks God.

I appreciate the refinement, and I think we’re in full agreement on the fundamental point—the rejection of Christ is necessarily and inescapably tied to the moral state of the heart.

Your distinction between "inability to accept" and "rejection" is well taken, as rejection could imply an openness to consideration before willfully turning away, whereas Scripture presents the natural man as already in a state of hostility (Romans 8:7), already in love with darkness (John 3:19-20), and already given over to futile thinking (Romans 1:21-28).

Your point about sin being more despotic than God is profound. Sin enslaves fully, immediately, and willingly—it does not negotiate, and fallen man does not resist it (Romans 6:16-20). Meanwhile, God, in His patience, rescues whom He wills through grace (Ephesians 2:4-5).

At the end of the day, this solidifies the absolute necessity of God-given faith, understanding, and regeneration before anyone can "come to the light" (John 3:21). As you said, no one wakes up one day and simply chooses to seek God. Scripture leaves no room for that view. No one seeks for God (Romans 3:11), no one can come unless drawn (John 6:44), and those who do come do so only because God has already worked in them (Philippians 2:13).

That being the case, would you agree that this makes the synergist position fundamentally untenable—since it still assumes some form of prevenient willingness in fallen man that Scripture never affirms?
 
Actually? Potentially all 3.

All is in His Hand, nothing will happen beyond God's perfect timing and way, but the sin nature makes everything more difficult to understand from the start, then when you add in poor or just plain incorrect explanations of salvation your compounding existing issues.

Also when you don't share the Gospel you might be depriving someone of hearing it who needs to etc etc.

There's certainly Bible verses about leading people astray:

Matthew 18:6-7:
"If anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble."

There's certainly more than one way to view it but ultimately we don't believe in Jesus for salvation because we are lost in sin and have a sin nature that chooses evil continually.

While sharing the Gospel is in large part right time, it's also the right Gospel spoken correctly also though.

Too many heretics.

You bring up a good point—poor or incorrect explanations of the gospel can certainly be a stumbling block, and failing to share the gospel does deprive someone of hearing it. However, the key question is: What ultimately determines whether a person accepts or rejects the gospel?

If misunderstanding due to bad teaching were the primary issue, then the solution would be better explanations—but Scripture places the problem at a deeper level: the heart’s moral rebellion (John 3:19-20, Romans 8:7).

You affirmed this when you said:
"We don’t believe in Jesus for salvation because we are lost in sin and have a sin nature that chooses evil continually."

That’s the heart of it. A bad gospel presentation can be an obstacle, but even the clearest gospel presentation won’t convince the natural person unless God changes the heart (John 6:44, Ezekiel 36:26).

So, would you say that while information and explanation matter, they aren’t the determining factor—because even if the gospel is shared perfectly, the sin nature still ensures that without God’s work, it will be rejected?
 
So, would you say that while information and explanation matter, they aren’t the determining factor—because even if the gospel is shared perfectly, the sin nature still ensures that without God’s work, it will be rejected?

Yes, I absolutely do agree with this. :)
 
It sounds like you’re emphasizing that faith itself is not something we produce, but rather something that comes from God’s power at work in us. If that’s what you’re saying, then we’re on the same page—salvation is not from man, but a work of God’s faithfulness, just as you referenced (2 Cor. 4:7).

Would you say, then, that the natural person’s rejection of the gospel is due to:

1️⃣ A lack of information in the preaching?
2️⃣ A mental handicap preventing comprehension?
3️⃣ A sin nature—a moral disposition that refuses to love and trust God?

#1

A lack of faith/ belief/understanding. . . . . . . power which is needed to both (hear) believe and (do) the will of another. Christ in us

In that way Christ supplying the understanding of the knowledge. They have the written word knowledge but no understanding from Christ. the one author of Christ's faith as power or called labor of His Love John 14 informs us not only is he our teacher comforted and guide, but he brings to our memory the previous things taught comforting us kowing if he began his good teasching work in us he wil finsifh till ee taker our last breath

In that way it seems knowledge without the hidden understanding of Christ was the cause of the fall, false pride.

1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

Love comes along side of knowledge and feeds the believers his daily bread as understnding .

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
 
#1

A lack of faith/ belief/understanding. . . . . . . power which is needed to both (hear) believe and (do) the will of another. Christ in us

In that way Christ supplying the understanding of the knowledge. They have the written word knowledge but no understanding from Christ. the one author of Christ's faith as power or called labor of His Love John 14 informs us not only is he our teacher comforted and guide, but he brings to our memory the previous things taught comforting us kowing if he began his good teasching work in us he wil finsifh till ee taker our last breath

In that way it seems knowledge without the hidden understanding of Christ was the cause of the fall, false pride.

1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

Love comes along side of knowledge and feeds the believers his daily bread as understnding .

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

You seem to be saying that the natural person’s rejection of the gospel is due to a lack of faith/belief/understanding, and that understanding is something Christ must supply. If I’m following correctly, you’re emphasizing that knowledge alone is insufficient—that true understanding must come from Christ as the source of faith and power.

That raises an important distinction: Is the issue merely a lack of information (something external to the person), or is it a moral rejection of truth (something internal, tied to the heart)?

You referenced Hosea 4:6, which says "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge," but notice that it also says "because thou hast rejected knowledge." This suggests the issue isn’t just an absence of truth, but a willful rejection of it—which aligns with passages like John 3:19, where people love darkness rather than light.

Would you agree, then, that the issue is not just that people don’t have knowledge, but that they reject the truth they do have, and that’s why divine intervention is needed?
 
Last edited:
I appreciate the refinement, and I think we’re in full agreement on the fundamental point—the rejection of Christ is necessarily and inescapably tied to the moral state of the heart.

Your distinction between "inability to accept" and "rejection" is well taken, as rejection could imply an openness to consideration before willfully turning away, whereas Scripture presents the natural man as already in a state of hostility (Romans 8:7), already in love with darkness (John 3:19-20), and already given over to futile thinking (Romans 1:21-28).

Your point about sin being more despotic than God is profound. Sin enslaves fully, immediately, and willingly—it does not negotiate, and fallen man does not resist it (Romans 6:16-20). Meanwhile, God, in His patience, rescues whom He wills through grace (Ephesians 2:4-5).

At the end of the day, this solidifies the absolute necessity of God-given faith, understanding, and regeneration before anyone can "come to the light" (John 3:21). As you said, no one wakes up one day and simply chooses to seek God. Scripture leaves no room for that view. No one seeks for God (Romans 3:11), no one can come unless drawn (John 6:44), and those who do come do so only because God has already worked in them (Philippians 2:13).
I would further clarify the matter to spread the corruption of sin beyond the moral state of the heart. Not everything is moral but everything is corrupted by sin. We do not, for example, claim a pair of rams is being immoral when they assault each other during the mating season. Nor do we say a predator is immoral because it murders its prey. There is moral, amoral, and immoral within us. Cells are not moral or immoral, but they are corrupted by sin.

This goes back to the "we sin because we're sinful and we're sinful because we sin," adage to which I previously referred. Many Christians think 1 John 3:4 is the only verse in the Bible that defines sin but it is not. When the whole of scripture is considered the blunt reality of sin being a function of disposition - not just conduct - is apparent. That is how scripture can say even the moral act is sinful.



Isaiah 64:6
For all of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, and our wrongdoings, like the wind, take us away.

How could a righteous act possibly be soled rags to God? The answer lies in the fact nothing sinful flesh does has any merit to God, salvific or otherwise.

Back in the early days when the ECFs formalized their doctrines of Man sin they asserted a genetic component to sin they arrived at inferentially. Because there isn't an explicit statement in scripture to that effect the "original sin" position wasn't universally accepted. However, in modernity we can see cells. We can physically look at them through advanced machinery. We now KNOW changes occur on a cellular level when either a person does something bad or something bad happens to a person. We can chart the effects of trauma at a cellular level, and we can map the changes in the neural pathways. If untreated those changes remain permanent. This isn't a matter of debate and only fools dispute it. We now have demonstrable and objectively verifiable facts proving what the ECFs only hypothesized.

NOTHING
has
EVER
been more traumatizing
to any human
than the fall from grace.​

The cells in Adam's brain changed. The cells in Eve's brain changed. Quicker than you or I can snap our fingers. An entire neural pathway in the brain was newly highlighted. Through the process of cellular mitosis those changes got replicated and over the course of a few years every cell in their body bore the effects of Genesis 3:6-7. That included the gametes. They, then, transferred the record of their disobedience onto their progeny. Their Cain, Seth and all their other children did the same to their progeny.

Not a single person here, not a single person on the entire planet is the good, sinless, unashamed person God originally made.

Sin has corrupted humanity, and God does not want or need anything from corrupt creatures. As Jonathon Edwards put it, the only thing we bring to our salvation is the sin from which we are being saved. The moral state of the heart is egregiously damaged, but the damage is not limited to the moral state of the heart.
 
That being the case, would you agree that this makes the synergist position fundamentally untenable—since it still assumes some form of prevenient willingness in fallen man that Scripture never affirms?
The short answer is, "Yes."

A more thorough answer speaks to the fact the problems in synergism are not singular or monolithic. We now live in a time when synergism is very diverse. In my early days as a Christian I was Arminian (many of the monergists in this forum were also) and the soteriological debate was largely framed in the sole context of Cal v Arm. It was only later that I learned Wesleyanism was a slightly different view of Arminianism and the two cannot be treated synonymously. ALL forms of Pelagianism were automatically rejected as heresy. In the last few decades, however, folks like Leighton Flowers and a significant portion of the Baptist and non-denominational Church have asserted and formalized a third alternative that, despite their denial, is decidedly Pelagian. If you're not familiar with those viewpoints do a little Googly of Provisionism and Traditionalism. For those two models "prevenient grace" either has a completely different definition than Arminius' or it's not really a thing.

Arminius was at least a one-point Calvinist because he subscribed to and explicitly taught the doctrine we now call "Total Depravity," (TD) or the inability of the sinner to do anything remotely meritorious for salvation from sin. Arminius, like Luther and Calvin, was Augustinian in his soteriology. Provisionists and Traditionalists reject TD. See Section 7 in Article 11 of Disputation 11.

I take an odd, perhaps extreme viewpoint to the matter and I tell you that so you understand you'll get some diversity of views from among the other monergists in this forum. I am not a strict determinist (like someone like A. W. Pink) but I'm not a classic compatibilist, either. My position is that volition is irrelevant in conversion/regeneration. The entire debate regarding the place of the sinner's will relevant to regeneration is a red herring. I do take the position regeneration precedes faith and therefore volition is important after the fact of conversion but that has nothing to do with the volitional agency (choice) of the sinner. God did not ask Abraham if Abe wanted to be chosen. God did not ask Abe if Abe wanted to be called. God did not ask him if he wanted to be commanded. God did not ask Abe if Abe wanted to be promised anything. ALL of that is monergistic. It is not until long after the (Christological) covenant is established that Abraham is explicitly asked to make a choice. If scripture is adhered to exactly as written, then not a single word I just wrote is up for dispute. If we apply the covenant context to salvation (because salvation does not and cannot occur outside the Christological covenant) then there is absolutely no place to assert faith precedes salvation (or any other synergism).

One more point: I do not use the phrase "free will." I'm often a stickler for the language of scripture and often eschew that of man-made doctrines (even if the doctrines are valid). The word "free" means autonomous, or absent all influence or control and the facts of human existence is humans are not and never have been autonomous and have never lived a fraction of a nanosecond absent all controls. The phrase is one of the most nonsensical terms ever invented. I post "volitional agency," or the ability to assert one's volition to make actual real choices. They are never free. The word "freewill" is found in the Bible, but not the phrase "free will." The former phrase simply means "voluntary," not autonomous. The sinner can make voluntary choices but not a single one of them ever occurs outside the context of his/her inherent and inescapable sinfulness.

As I previously posted, there is not a single explicit example in the entire Bible of any sinfully dead and enslaved person waking up one day and saying, "Hey, I think I'll go to God in my own flesh and seek Him out for salvation." The only ones recorded to seek God are those in whom He is already at work for His purpose(s).
 
...We can physically look at them through advanced machinery. We now KNOW changes occur on a cellular level when either a person does something bad or something bad happens to a person. We can chart the effects of trauma at a cellular level, and we can map the changes in the neural pathways. If untreated those changes remain permanent. This isn't a matter of debate and only fools dispute it. We now have demonstrable and objectively verifiable facts proving what the ECFs only hypothesized.

Appreciate the depth of thought in your response. Your point about sin’s corruption extending beyond just the moral state of the heart is well taken. The effects of sin are clearly holistic, impacting not just will and desires, but even the physical world itself (Romans 8:20-22).

Your reference to cellular-level corruption is intriguing. If sin alters humanity at such a fundamental level, then how do you view Christ’s human nature in light of this? He was born of a "made sinner" human mother, yet without inheriting sin’s corruption. Does this suggest that sin’s transmission is not purely physical, but tied directly to divine ordination—meaning corruption is passed through legal imputation rather than just biological descent?

Would love to hear your take on how Christ remains untouched by inherited sin if it operates at a cellular level.
 
Your reference to cellular-level corruption is intriguing. If sin alters humanity at such a fundamental level, then how do you view Christ’s human nature in light of this? He was born of a "made sinner" human mother, yet without inheriting sin’s corruption.
LOL! That is fodder for a separate op!

I subscribe to the doctrine of Impeccability as well as the position Jesus was fully God and fully human. I also do not find scripture to actually, explicitly state an ovum from Mary was used in the incarnation of Jesus. What scripture does state is that he was conceived by the Holy Spirit (Mt. 1:18-20). The text does not say he was conceived by the Holy Spirit and Mary. There's no mention of Mary contributing anything to his pregnancy. This, of course, typically leads to a lot of debate (which is why I encourage you to start a new and separate op on the matter because as soon as folks read this post they're going to address it.... and the specified topic of this op will be lost. Folks will appeal to Genesis 3:15's "seed of a woman" and a variety of other verses, all of which I can address, but in the end there'll be mixed agreement. The traditionalists will maintain their adherence to that position. Furthermore, because of Jesus' divine ontology and the doctrine of Impeccability I side with the Reformed who hold Jesus was incapable of sin and, therefore, verses like Hebrews 2:18 and 4:15 should be read in the context of his unique ontology. Jesus was not made in the flesh of sinful man, but in the flesh of sinless man. His cells were not like yours or mine. His cells did not bear any mark of corruption within them. James' definition of temptation, therefore, does not apply the same way to Jesus as it does to you or me or the rest of humanity. There are no lusts within Jesus by which he might be dragged away and enticed to sin. That is how the temptation in the wilderness should be read. He was baited, but there was no internal desire to consider what Satan offered. Had any such desire ever existed anywhere at anytime in Jesus, from toenail to head hair follicle then that would have instantaneously disqualified him from being the perfect, blemish-free sacrifice.

The correct Christology is critical to a correct soteriology.
Does this suggest that sin’s transmission is not purely physical, but tied directly to divine ordination—meaning corruption is passed through legal imputation rather than just biological descent?

Would love to hear your take on how Christ remains untouched by inherited sin if it operates at a cellular level.
Sin's entrance is attributed to disobedience (Rom. 5:12). After an individual disobeys God then sin corrupts everything. That is what happened with Adam (and Eve) in Genesis 3:6-7. Adam's disobedience did not merely affect Adam; it brought sin into the entire world. Bacteria and viruses no longer worked as they were originally designed, and they no longer submitted to the divinely mandated stewardship of humanity. Disease ensued. As a consequence, now all creation yearns for the sons of God to be revealed, and it yearns to be made new.

BUT..... that's just the earth end of things. If the tradition about Satan having been a rebellious archangel is true and correct then the serpent is just as much a slave of sin as any human. The wages of sin is death. That applies to Satan. He is NOT a free agent. He is a minion, a sinfully dead and sinfully enslaved minion. Sin is despotic. The chief difference, hamartiologically speaking, between the angelic sinner and the human sinner is that God, in His grace, has seen fit to offer salvation to humanity where none is available to Satan and his ilk. The point being, angelic spirits suffer the consequence of disobedience and sin, too. They are not flesh and blood like us (they have bodies, but they're not like our bodies).

However, perhaps the better way to look at sin is not as a "thing," but as an "anti-thing." God is the Thesis. Righteousness is the thesis. Sin is the antithesis. Sin is the absence of something, not the existence of some alternative. Sin is the absence of righteousness, holiness, faith, faithfulness, obedience, perfection, etc. It is the absence and antithesis of everything that is God.

To the degree that all the abstracts are not material (thought, emotion, volition, love, peace, holiness/separateness, etc.), the answer to your question is yes, not either/or. Sin is purely physical, but sin is also non-physical. Sin (or corruption) is transmitted physically, but it is also transmitted behaviorally, cognitively, etc. AND it is also imputed as a function of the OEM specifications of the Creator's design in creation. None of this is either/or. It's all of the above.

Which brings me to something I think critically important when reading scripture. We need to avoid the problem I call "onlyism." Onlyism occurs anytime we read a verse that says something and we think that verse is definitive. For example, earlier I mentioned 1 John 3:4's definition of sin. John said all disobedience is sin. That is true BUT John did NOT say only disobedience is sin. Nor did he says the only measure of sin is disobedience. Other verses define sin as any lack of righteousness (and righteousness is not measured solely by the Law (as some think). Paul was writing about how holy days and dietary restrictions are to be handled and he said anything not done in faith is sin. The point being that 1 John 3:4 is nt the ONLY verse defining sin. Another example would be the so called "five-fold ministry" of Ephesians 4. No list in the Bible is exhaustive. When Paul lists five roles or "offices" that Jesus has given the Church he is not being exhaustive. Jesus also gave the Church administrators and a variety of other leaders and servants by which the objectives of Ephesians 4:11-16 are accomplished. An entire diagnostic criteria was developed using the specified five positions and entire congregations has been taught everyone has some blessing from God to be one of those roles. IT's a gross misuse of scripture all because the word "some" was ignored and the list was read with an "only" inserted: God gave only apostles, evangelists, prophets, preachers, and teachers 🤮🤮🤮. That is not what the text states at all.

So you can see the matter of Christology entails many different aspects including those having to do with his divine ontology that I haven't yet broached. If Jesus is God, then there has never been a moment in all of creation when he was not also King. It's completely irrational to have a God who is not also king and always, everywhere sovereign. That would necessarily mean he is sovereign over sin. Tie that to the fact he is the last Adam. Adam was given to commands: 1) be fruitful, subdue, and rule, and 2) don't disobey Me. Had Adam obeyed the first command then he never would have disobeyed the second command. Do you follow that?

As a human being, Jesus always and everywhere obeys the first command. He, therefore, never has a problem with the second.

There is also never a a point in eternity, nor a moment in creation when Jesus is not the resurrection and the life. He spoke the words of John 11:25 and 14:6 long before he hung from Calvary.

He is NOT like sinful man. Neither is he a sinning man. He is the resurrection.

Start an op on it :)
 
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