SoteriologyA1
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Vote and explain your reasoning!
Unfortunately you don't provide a place to vote. I'm afraid I cannot tell you how to do it as I have never posted a Questionnaire.Not enough information in the preaching
Mental handicap (inability to comprehend the message)
Sin nature (moral disposition of rejecting God)
Vote and explain your reasoning!
Paul explains why the natural man does not receive the things of God:
“But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.” (1Co 2:14-16 NKJV)
The natural man is elsewhere described as "dead in trespasses and sins." If the natural man is spiritually dead, how can he receive spiritual truths?
Sorry, I should have said, Answer 3.Which of the three options does your answer fall under?
Not enough information in the preaching
Mental handicap (inability to comprehend the message)
Sin nature (moral disposition of rejecting God)"
#4. . . .No faithful power as it is written that is needed to believe God not seen.Which of the three options does your answer fall under?
Not enough information in the preaching
Mental handicap (inability to comprehend the message)
Sin nature (moral disposition of rejecting God)"
#4. . . .No faithful power as it is written that is needed to believe God not seen.
We have his poer that works in us but would never say it is of us powerless ones
Salvation a work of his faithful "let there be and it was good. A good work of His faithfulness or called labor of love
The power to create language. The power to define words etched in stone. A written vocabulary. Not pictures Hieroglyphs without understanding.
Let there be.
Let, interpreted . . .Let not prevent or forbid; allow:
There, interpreted . . .in, at, or to that place or position:
Be, interpreted ,. . . . occur, take place.
Change the meaning of one word, another gospel
Let, interpreted . . . prevent or forbid; not allow:
There, interpreted . . .absent from in, at, or to a place or position:
Be, interpreted ,. . . . never occur, take place. imagine
2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us
All three explain why the "natural" person rejects the preaching of the cross as foolishness. However, the specific wording of the question is, presumably, a reference to 1 Corinthians 2:14. since it mentions the "natural man" and his perception of spiritual things as "foolishness."Not enough information in the preaching
Mental handicap (inability to comprehend the message)
Sin nature (moral disposition of rejecting God)
Vote and explain your reasoning!
I would amend that underlined portion to say their inability to accept the truth but that could be hair-splitting. The synergist, especially the Provisionist or Traditionalist will say the sinner has an inherent ability to hear, receive, and understand the gospel but I reject that position. We are sinful because we sin, and we sin because we're sinful... and sin is much more despotic than God.@Josheb,
You’ve provided a thorough response, and I appreciate the depth of engagement with the text. I fully agree that context is crucial, and that Paul’s focus in 1 Corinthians 2:14 is distinguishing between those who have the Spirit and those who do not. As you rightly pointed out, while the passage is not directly about evangelism, it does establish a broader principle regarding the natural person's rejection of spiritual truth—which, of course, includes the gospel.
Looking at the other passages you referenced (Romans 8, Ephesians 4, 1 John 4, John 14), a common theme emerges: The natural person's rejection of truth is consistently tied to a heart problem—not a lack of information, nor a cognitive handicap that would remove responsibility.
This pattern seems to suggest that sin itself is the result of a sin nature, and that rejection of truth is a product of an already rebellious heart rather than insufficient data or a mental limitation.
- Romans 8:7 says the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God—not ignorant, but resistant.
- Ephesians 4:18 describes darkened understanding due to hardness of heart—not lack of revelation, but a willful exclusion from the life of God.
- 1 John 4:6 makes it clear that those "not from God" do not listen—not because they can't comprehend, but because they do not belong to Him.
Again, I would frame it as an inability because the matter of rejection implies some point in which the preaching of the cross has been heard, has been understood, has been considered and the willfully rejected. I do not find scripture to support any of that. God gives hearing. God gives knowledge and understanding. God gives faith. It is God who works in the saint to do His will. The mind of flesh is hostile and cannot please God. Those who deny God, refusing to see His power at work in creation (the cross would be God's work in creation) think futilely, their hearts are darkened, and God has given them over to their own desires (Rom. 1).Would you agree, then, that every verse pointing to a negative response to God's truth ultimately ties that rejection to the moral state of the heart—not to a lack of revelation or an inability that would remove responsibility?
Not enough information in the preaching
Mental handicap (inability to comprehend the message)
Sin nature (moral disposition of rejecting God)
Vote and explain your reasoning!
I would amend that underlined portion to say their inability to accept the truth but that could be hair-splitting. The synergist, especially the Provisionist or Traditionalist will say the sinner has an inherent ability to hear, receive, and understand the gospel but I reject that position. We are sinful because we sin, and we sin because we're sinful... and sin is much more despotic than God.
Again, I would frame it as an inability because the matter of rejection implies some point in which the preaching of the cross has been heard, has been understood, has been considered and the willfully rejected. I do not find scripture to support any of that. God gives hearing. God gives knowledge and understanding. God gives faith. It is God who works in the saint to do His will. The mind of flesh is hostile and cannot please God. Those who deny God, refusing to see His power at work in creation (the cross would be God's work in creation) think futilely, their hearts are darkened, and God has given them over to their own desires (Rom. 1).
Otherwise, yes, the rejection of Christ is necessarily and inescapably tied too the moral state of the heart.
John 3:16-21 NIV
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
No one is born believing in Jesus. It would be nice if that were not the case, but it is. To make things worse, the only people in the Bible who ever "walk in the light" are those people in whom God is already working to that effect. There isn't a single example of anyone waking up one day and deciding in their sin-ridden flesh, "Hey, I think I will walk in the light today," especially anyone who heart is darkened and whose thinking is futile. No one seeks God.
Actually? Potentially all 3.
All is in His Hand, nothing will happen beyond God's perfect timing and way, but the sin nature makes everything more difficult to understand from the start, then when you add in poor or just plain incorrect explanations of salvation your compounding existing issues.
Also when you don't share the Gospel you might be depriving someone of hearing it who needs to etc etc.
There's certainly Bible verses about leading people astray:
Matthew 18:6-7:
"If anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble."
There's certainly more than one way to view it but ultimately we don't believe in Jesus for salvation because we are lost in sin and have a sin nature that chooses evil continually.
While sharing the Gospel is in large part right time, it's also the right Gospel spoken correctly also though.
Too many heretics.
"We don’t believe in Jesus for salvation because we are lost in sin and have a sin nature that chooses evil continually."
So, would you say that while information and explanation matter, they aren’t the determining factor—because even if the gospel is shared perfectly, the sin nature still ensures that without God’s work, it will be rejected?
Now isn't THAT the truth!!sin is much more despotic than God.
It sounds like you’re emphasizing that faith itself is not something we produce, but rather something that comes from God’s power at work in us. If that’s what you’re saying, then we’re on the same page—salvation is not from man, but a work of God’s faithfulness, just as you referenced (2 Cor. 4:7).
Would you say, then, that the natural person’s rejection of the gospel is due to:
A lack of information in the preaching?
A mental handicap preventing comprehension?
A sin nature—a moral disposition that refuses to love and trust God?
#1
A lack of faith/ belief/understanding. . . . . . . power which is needed to both (hear) believe and (do) the will of another. Christ in us
In that way Christ supplying the understanding of the knowledge. They have the written word knowledge but no understanding from Christ. the one author of Christ's faith as power or called labor of His Love John 14 informs us not only is he our teacher comforted and guide, but he brings to our memory the previous things taught comforting us kowing if he began his good teasching work in us he wil finsifh till ee taker our last breath
In that way it seems knowledge without the hidden understanding of Christ was the cause of the fall, false pride.
1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
Love comes along side of knowledge and feeds the believers his daily bread as understnding .
Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
I would further clarify the matter to spread the corruption of sin beyond the moral state of the heart. Not everything is moral but everything is corrupted by sin. We do not, for example, claim a pair of rams is being immoral when they assault each other during the mating season. Nor do we say a predator is immoral because it murders its prey. There is moral, amoral, and immoral within us. Cells are not moral or immoral, but they are corrupted by sin.I appreciate the refinement, and I think we’re in full agreement on the fundamental point—the rejection of Christ is necessarily and inescapably tied to the moral state of the heart.
Your distinction between "inability to accept" and "rejection" is well taken, as rejection could imply an openness to consideration before willfully turning away, whereas Scripture presents the natural man as already in a state of hostility (Romans 8:7), already in love with darkness (John 3:19-20), and already given over to futile thinking (Romans 1:21-28).
Your point about sin being more despotic than God is profound. Sin enslaves fully, immediately, and willingly—it does not negotiate, and fallen man does not resist it (Romans 6:16-20). Meanwhile, God, in His patience, rescues whom He wills through grace (Ephesians 2:4-5).
At the end of the day, this solidifies the absolute necessity of God-given faith, understanding, and regeneration before anyone can "come to the light" (John 3:21). As you said, no one wakes up one day and simply chooses to seek God. Scripture leaves no room for that view. No one seeks for God (Romans 3:11), no one can come unless drawn (John 6:44), and those who do come do so only because God has already worked in them (Philippians 2:13).
The short answer is, "Yes."That being the case, would you agree that this makes the synergist position fundamentally untenable—since it still assumes some form of prevenient willingness in fallen man that Scripture never affirms?
...We can physically look at them through advanced machinery. We now KNOW changes occur on a cellular level when either a person does something bad or something bad happens to a person. We can chart the effects of trauma at a cellular level, and we can map the changes in the neural pathways. If untreated those changes remain permanent. This isn't a matter of debate and only fools dispute it. We now have demonstrable and objectively verifiable facts proving what the ECFs only hypothesized.
LOL! That is fodder for a separate op!Your reference to cellular-level corruption is intriguing. If sin alters humanity at such a fundamental level, then how do you view Christ’s human nature in light of this? He was born of a "made sinner" human mother, yet without inheriting sin’s corruption.
Sin's entrance is attributed to disobedience (Rom. 5:12). After an individual disobeys God then sin corrupts everything. That is what happened with Adam (and Eve) in Genesis 3:6-7. Adam's disobedience did not merely affect Adam; it brought sin into the entire world. Bacteria and viruses no longer worked as they were originally designed, and they no longer submitted to the divinely mandated stewardship of humanity. Disease ensued. As a consequence, now all creation yearns for the sons of God to be revealed, and it yearns to be made new.Does this suggest that sin’s transmission is not purely physical, but tied directly to divine ordination—meaning corruption is passed through legal imputation rather than just biological descent?
Would love to hear your take on how Christ remains untouched by inherited sin if it operates at a cellular level.