Who will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

[Hobie]

Here is a question everyone needs to understand as the scriptures are quite clear....

Who are those who will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, what descriptions does God use in describing the lost and what will happen to them in the end?

Matthew 5:30
And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So God is clear who the wicked are and what will happen to them..

Psalm 37:20
But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

 

[Josheb]

Here is a question everyone needs to understand as the scriptures are quite clear....

Who are those who will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, what descriptions does God use in describing the lost and what will happen to them in the end?

Matthew 5:30
And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So God is clear who the wicked are and what will happen to them..

Psalm 37:20
But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Who will not enter the kingdom of heaven? According to this op, handless and blind people who have repented who have never sinned are the only ones who will enter.


How about this:

John 3:1-8
Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that you have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Now, to be fair, this passage mentions "the kingdom of God," and not, specifically, the "kingdom of heaven," so if you do not think the kingdom of God and kingdom of heaven synonymous then do please clarify and define the terms as you'd like them to be used in this thread.

I started with this passage because Jesus states the kingdom of God cannot be seen unless one is born again. The Greek, "gennethe anothen" is more accurately translated "born from above," and Jesus implies that birth is by the Spirit, not flesh. the question this begs is "How can a person enter something or some place they cannot see?" Does a person have to be able to see where they are going to get there? Normally, the answer would be, "Yes! Of course a person has to be able to see where they are going in order to reach their destination. The Bible has a lot to say about blind people and it's not good. Blind people fall in ditches, not the kingdom of heaven" However, someone else might respond with.

Hebrews 11:1-3
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the men of old gained approval. By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.


That then provides another answer to the question this op asks. Who will not enter the kingdom of heaven? Those without faith. A person must be born anew from above by the Spirit and have faith in something that cannot be seen, assured and convinced of its existence.




I have a question for you: Do you think those who misuse scripture are culpable of wickedness (Ps. 37:20)? How about if they do so knowingly, are they culpable of lying (Rev. 21:18)? What about those culpable of division and sectarianism (Gal. 5:20)*?













*The words used in Galatians 5 mean seeking of followers, ambition, rivalry, self-seeking; a feud, faction. division, dissension, standing apart; a self-chosen opinion, a religious or philosophical sect, discord or contention (G2052, G1370, and G139 respectively).
.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

~
The so-called sermon on the mount isn't something to admire, rather; it is
something to fear because in closing, Jesus said that those who fail to comply with it
will come to ruin. (Matt 7:26-7)

However, God and His son Jesus have devised a safety net for failures that is just
as sin-proof as a divine being can possibly make it.

● Isa 53:6 . . We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own
way; and The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

(For those who may not be aware; that verse tells the purpose of Jesus' crucifixion)

The information was originally intended for the Jews' benefit, but God somewhere
along the line decided His son really ought to include Gentiles too.

● Isa 49:6 . . The Lord my God says: It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to
restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make
you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth.

● John 1:29 . .The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said: Look, the
lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

● 1John 2:2 . . He himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only but
also for the whole world.

I recommend finding some privacy; anywhere will do, even a restroom stall. Cover your
face with your hands for a sense of connection, and tell God (in your own words) that
you have never yet measured up to His standards and you're pretty sure you never will.
Tell Him you would like to take advantage of His son's death to protect yourself from
retribution.

Don't be hesitant about speaking to Go about this. He and His son have gone to a
great deal of inconvenience to get this incredible offer on the table so step up with an
RSVP soon lest the day arrive when it's no longer available.

● 2Cor 6:1-2 . . As God's fellow workers we urge you not to receive God's grace in vain.
For He says: "In the time of My favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped
you." I tell you; now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation.
_

 

[STAND]

Here is a question everyone needs to understand as the scriptures are quite clear....

Who are those who will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, what descriptions does God use in describing the lost and what will happen to them in the end?

Matthew 5:30
And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So God is clear who the wicked are and what will happen to them..

Psalm 37:20
But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Don't forget Matt. 7:21-23.

These are true believers being rejected.

Hmmm.

But why?

 

[CrowCross]

Don't forget Matt. 7:21-23.

These are true believers being rejected.

Hmmm.

But why?

Are they true believers?

The verse....21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’23And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Were they relying on what they personally did in the Lords name for salvation?

 

[STAND]

Are they true believers?

The verse....21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’23And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Were they relying on what they personally did in the Lords name for salvation?

When we look closely at that passage, it's pretty hard to make a case that they weren't true believers.

How many people, who don't believe in Jesus, prophesy, cast out devils and do miracles?

We see in John 15:1-6 that people who are "IN CHRIST" can be cut off from the True Vine and cast aside and burned. That's very scary, but it's also very significant and should be taught and studied more widely today for a better understanding of what is going on there.

 

[CrowCross]

When we look closely at that passage, it's pretty hard to make a case that they weren't true believers.

Where? If Jesus NEVER knew them they were not Christians. If they were actual Christians then Jesus would have know them.

How many people, who don't believe in Jesus, prophesy, cast out devils and do miracles?

Judas is an example.

1And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every affliction. 2The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;a 4Simon the Zealot,b and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

You can even argue Thomas wasn't a true believer until he saw Jesus in the upper room....where he then called Jesus Lord and God.

We see in John 15:1-6 that people who are "IN CHRIST" can be cut off from the True Vine and cast aside and burned. That's very scary, but it's also very significant and should be taught and studied more widely today for a better understanding of what is going on there.

That verse speaks of a bit more than you present.
. 6 If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.......Like those mentioned in Matt 7 they were never believers.

John 10 tells us...28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. 29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

 

[STAND]

Where? If Jesus NEVER knew them they were not Christians. If they were actual Christians then Jesus would have know them.

Let's not get off track.

The current point of contention here is belief.

Judas is an example.

1And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every affliction. 2The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;a 4Simon the Zealot,b and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

You can even argue Thomas wasn't a true believer until he saw Jesus in the upper room....where he then called Jesus Lord and God.

You don't think Judas or Thomas believed in Jesus though they walked along side Him, spoke with Him in person and witnessed His many miracles? Thomas was skeptical about the resurrection, yes.

That verse speaks of a bit more than you present.
. 6 If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.......Like those mentioned in Matt 7 they were never believers.

John 10 tells us...28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. 29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

I haven't interacted with you enough to know how sincere you are, but you are blatantly tossing out verses that I presented for the sake of supporting your argument. That's not real sincere.

"I am the True Vine and My Father is the Husbandman. Every branch "IN ME" that beareth not fruit He taketh away: ... If a man abide not "IN ME", he is cast forth ... and is withered; and men gather them, ... and they are burned."
John 15:1-2, 6

 

[CrowCross]

Let's not get off track.

The current point of contention here is belief.

You don't think Judas or Thomas believed in Jesus though they walked along side Him, spoke with Him in person and witnessed His many miracles? Thomas was skeptical about the resurrection, yes.

Judas no. He was called the son of perdition. Never saved. Judas cast out demons and wasn't saved. I gave you a supporting verse and you discarded it. In other cases...not read about in the Bible...unsaved people have cast out demons.

As for Thomas....the lightbulb finally came on when he realized Jesus was Lord and God...rose from the dead.

I haven't interacted with you enough to know how sincere you are, but you are blatantly tossing out verses that I presented for the sake of supporting your argument. That's not real sincere.

"I am the True Vine and My Father is the Husbandman. Every branch "IN ME" that beareth not fruit He taketh away: ... If a man abide not "IN ME", he is cast forth ... and is withered; and men gather them, ... and they are burned."
John 15:1-2, 6

I didn't blatently toss out the verse you presented....I simply presented a verse that very strongly supports OSAS. There are others.
I was asking how it sits with your notion one can lose their salvation as understood by the way inwhich you used John's verse.

This is a deep verse...is there a difference between being taken away.... and someone being gathered and burned?
One is in "me" and the other is not in "me".

 

[Soyeong]

Here is a question everyone needs to understand as the scriptures are quite clear....

Who are those who will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, what descriptions does God use in describing the lost and what will happen to them in the end?

Matthew 5:30
And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So God is clear who the wicked are and what will happen to them..

Psalm 37:20
But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of Heaven in contrast with saying that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them.

 

[Fred]

The will of the Father is to believe in Jesus (John 6:40).

 

[Soyeong]

Don't forget Matt. 7:21-23.

These are true believers being rejected.

Hmmm.

But why?

It directly states that Jesus would tell them to depart from him because they were workers of lawlessness. The Bible repeatedly connects our belief in God with our obedience to Him, such as in Revelation 14:12, where those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who obeyed God's commandments, and repeatedly connects knowing God with our obedience to Him, such as in 1 John 3:4-6, those who continue to practice lawlessness have never seen nor known him. So true believers are those who know Jesus are who are not workers are lawlessness.

 

[Soyeong]

The will of the Father is to believe in Jesus (John 6:40).

In Matthew 7:21-23, it directly contrasts those who the will of the Father with those who are workers of lawlessness and it is straightforward that the Father has made His will known through His law (Psalms 40:8), though that is not different from saying that His will is to believe in Jesus because His law is His instructions for how to believe in Jesus. In other words, God's word is His instructions for how to believe in the one who is the embodiment of God's word.

 

[makesends]

Where? If Jesus NEVER knew them they were not Christians. If they were actual Christians then Jesus would have know them.

Judas is an example.

1And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every affliction. 2The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;a 4Simon the Zealot,b and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

You can even argue Thomas wasn't a true believer until he saw Jesus in the upper room....where he then called Jesus Lord and God.



That verse speaks of a bit more than you present.
. 6 If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.......Like those mentioned in Matt 7 they were never believers.

John 10 tells us...28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. 29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’

 

[CrowCross]

Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’

OK, I can read the verse....and...

 

[STAND]

It directly states that Jesus would tell them to depart from him because they were workers of lawlessness. The Bible repeatedly connects our belief in God with our obedience to Him, such as in Revelation 14:12, where those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who obeyed God's commandments, and repeatedly connects knowing God with our obedience to Him, such as in 1 John 3:4-6, those who continue to practice lawlessness have never seen nor known him. So true believers are those who know Jesus are who are not workers are lawlessness.

Totally agree.

 

[makesends]

OK, I can read the verse....and...

The Spirit of God can do as it will, and is not accountable to us. God can use anyone anyway he pleases without first saving that person —i.e., without that person being one of the Elect.

 

[CrowCross]

The Spirit of God can do as it will, and is not accountable to us. God can use anyone anyway he pleases without first saving that person —i.e., without that person being one of the Elect.

Which means God can use the unsaved to cast out demons.

 

[makesends]

Which means God can use the unsaved to cast out demons.

Yep.

 

[STAND]

Which means God can use the unsaved to cast out demons.

When is a person saved, technically.

With Scripture?