WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?

[jeremiah1five]

First, you have those believers that are obedient to the Torah:

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Then there are these people:

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Rev. 22:14–15.

Who are these people?

Obviously, they are those that do not obey God and obey His Torah. That much is clear, for if they were obedient to God and obey His Torah, they would be included with those in verse 14.

 

[Fred]

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments,

The commandments of the New Covenant.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The commandments of the New Covenant.

Yes, this is true.
The commandments of the New Covenant are the commandments of the First covenant as spoken by Christ Himself:

26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mt 26:26–28.

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. John 15:10.

He said, "If you love me keep my commandments."

His commandments are the Torah.

Thanks for bringing this up.

But the question remains. WHO are these people? They are a people that DO NOT KEEP His commandments of the New Covenant.

 

[CrowCross]

First, you have those believers that are obedient to the Torah:

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Then there are these people:

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Rev. 22:14–15.

Who are these people?

Obviously, they are those that do not obey God and obey His Torah. That much is clear, for if they were obedient to God and obey His Torah, they would be included with those in verse 14.

Yes, this is true.
The commandments of the New Covenant are the commandments of the First covenant as spoken by Christ Himself:

26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mt 26:26–28.

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. John 15:10.

He said, "If you love me keep my commandments."

His commandments are the Torah.

Thanks for bringing this up.

But the question remains. WHO are these people? They are a people that DO NOT KEEP His commandments of the New Covenant.

The following was written to the Church of Ephesus..and consequently to the entire church... To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’

 

[Fred]

Yes, this is true.
The commandments of the New Covenant are the commandments of the First covenant as spoken by Christ Himself:

The First Covenant is obsolete (Hebrews 8:13).

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/sabbath-or-sunday-what-did-jesus-teach-show-in-scripture.1309/#post-51152

 

[Mr GLee]

First, you have those believers that are obedient to the Torah:

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Then there are these people:

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Rev. 22:14–15.

Who are these people?

Obviously, they are those that do not obey God and obey His Torah. That much is clear, for if they were obedient to God and obey His Torah, they would be included with those in verse 14.

Yes, these "people" "humans, persons in general, men and women not what is the dying race ?

big difference between people and "race discrimination" . Satan again would try and make it one in the same.

Eternal God is not prejudice

Romans 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people,(not race) which were not my people; (not race)and her beloved, which was not beloved.

Romans 15:11
And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.(not race)

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation,(not race) a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people;(not race) that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

 

[prism]

First, you have those believers that are obedient to the Torah:

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Then there are these people:

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Rev. 22:14–15.

Who are these people?

Obviously, they are those that do not obey God and obey His Torah. That much is clear, for if they were obedient to God and obey His Torah, they would be included with those in verse 14.

No one...

Romans 3:9-12 ESV
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, [10] as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; [11] no one understands; no one seeks for God. [12] All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."

 

[jeremiah1five]

The following was written to the Church of Ephesus..and consequently to the entire church... To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’

Jewish Christians founded the homebased Church in all the Jewish communities after their break with the Judaizers when they had first gathered in the synagogues, but Jews couldn't reconcile their Messiah and King dying on a tree. First there was separation, then came the persecution.
In other words, both Ephesus and the passage in Revelation is written to Jewish Christians.
There is no book of the bible addressed to Gentiles except Saul's personal letter to Timothy.
Although God commanded the Hebrews to possess the 'oracles of God' and to read and study them and discuss them continuously, He never commanded the scrolls of the New Covenant to be gathered and kept together as a 'book.' Gentiles made that decision because during persecution they concluded that Gentile Christians were dying for possessing false writings and it was a question as to when found possessing any writings that one could "give up" the false writings and live or keep the true writings and be martyred.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The First Covenant is obsolete (Hebrews 8:13).

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/sabbath-or-sunday-what-did-jesus-teach-show-in-scripture.1309/#post-51152

Yes, for those that are disobedient to Christ and His command to obey the Torah.
That's already been established.
But I find it an astounding thing that the Hebrew Scripture of Torah, Psalms, and Prophets were NEVER written to Gentiles and Gentiles take it upon their error to tell the Hebrews to whom the Scriptures were written that their Scriptures are "obsolete" or "abolished." Talk about being a busybody to the Nth degree to dictate to another people what they can receive and believe in and what they can't.
Total arrogance.
That's like Ukrainians telling Americans our Constitution is "obsolete" and "abolished" and doesn't need to be read, studied, and obeyed to guide their lives.
How stupid is that?
LOL.

 

[jeremiah1five]

No one...

Romans 3:9-12 ESV
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, [10] as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; [11] no one understands; no one seeks for God. [12] All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."

If they are no one as you say, then they have nothing to worry about.
But since God is identifying a certain people, they are someone that should be very concerned about what God is saying about them.
And being mentioned in the last 'page' of the Bible means there's a finality about this group and their eternal destiny and God's grace is not given to this people.

 

[Fred]

Yes, for those that are disobedient to Christ

Jesus loves what is written in Hebrews 8:13.

 

[CrowCross]

Gentile Christians were dying for possessing false writings

Intersting....I never heard of that.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jesus loves what is written in Hebrews 8:13.

Jesus understands what is written in Hebrews 8:13 but you don't. You take one passage of Scripture and build a false doctrine around it.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Rev. 22:14–15.

Zechariah says in chapter 14 of his prophecy that God Himself will cleanse the Promised Land of ALL Gentiles and the Jews will occupy their Promised Land WITHOUT any Gentiles living among them. This has never happened before in Israel's history. But it will happen in Israel's future.
So, where will these Gentiles live? They will live in the four quarters of the earth (meaning everywhere except Israel.)
And what is the ultimate destiny of Gentiles?

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev. 20:7–10.

The Word of God.

I think you should work out your own salvation and that you should escape what has been prophesied in Scripture about these people.

 

[Fred]

Jesus understands what is written in Hebrews 8:13 but you don't. You take one passage of Scripture and build a false doctrine around it.

Your go to excuse because it refutes your heresy.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

The commandments of the New Covenant.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Your go to excuse because it refutes your heresy.



The commandments of the New Covenant.

There are no commandments described in Jeremiah 31:31-34. So, what are YOU talking about?
The commandments of God is the Torah. Obey His commandments described in the Torah and in the Psalms and Prophets and you shall live.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. Lk 10:27–28.

Just say you're an antinomian and be done with it.

 

[Fred]

There are no commandments described in Jeremiah 31:31-34. So, what are YOU talking about?

A covenant contains commandments.

 

[jeremiah1five]

A covenant contains commandments.

Scripture, please. Show me the Scripture verse in the New Covenant described by Jeremiah in his prophecy 31:31-34.

If you want to go to the gospels where Christ gave the Torah to His people to obey and live by then you'll find Jesus saying, "If you love me obey my commandments."
Peter said, "Thou art the Christ the Son of the living God." Peter was in effect saying Christ is Yahweh, the same Yahweh that gave the Torah to the children of Israel to live by. He is the same Yahweh that made covenant with Noah, Abraham, David, etc., and the commandments He instructed to obey is the Torah.

 

[Fred]

Scripture, please. Show me the Scripture verse in the New Covenant described by Jeremiah in his prophecy 31:31-34.

Jeremiah 31:33.

 

[Mr GLee]

Jesus understands what is written in Hebrews 8:13 but you don't. You take one passage of Scripture and build a false doctrine around it.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Rev. 22:14–15.

Zechariah says in chapter 14 of his prophecy that God Himself will cleanse the Promised Land of ALL Gentiles and the Jews will occupy their Promised Land WITHOUT any Gentiles living among them. This has never happened before in Israel's history. But it will happen in Israel's future.
So, where will these Gentiles live? They will live in the four quarters of the earth (meaning everywhere except Israel.)
And what is the ultimate destiny of Gentiles?

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev. 20:7–10.

The Word of God.

I think you should work out your own salvation and that you should escape what has been prophesied in Scripture about these people.

It never will the happen. Never will the Jew occupy without Gentiles No reason for it.

The Promised Land of ALL Gentiles and the Jews will occupy is the married land the heavenly Jerusalem or Zion called the city of Christ.

In respect to that land the father in Isaiah 62 renamed his bride previously calling her Israel changed it to Christian literally meaning "residents of the city of Christ", . . prepared for his bride named after the founder and husband Christ, a more befitting name to name the one bride of all the nations

62;1-5 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth. And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God. Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the Lord delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married. For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

Israel the chosen people not chosen race She is made up of all the people of the world

The veil was rent there was no Jewish man as King of kings sitting in the holy of holies. Satan fell he could no longer deceive all the nations that God is a Jewish man as King of kings .He will be released at the end of the age for a short while to again try and deceive all the nations God is a Jewish man as King of kings

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jeremiah 31:33.

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
fI will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
Jer. 31:33.

Yes, the "law" Jeremiah is referring is the Torah. That's the only "law" of God or anyone else in existence.