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What Of The Holy Spirit That Is In Us?

False dichotomy.

Jesus is NOT the savior of every individual. There is a caveat.
God does not have mercy and compassion on all men, but only on those on whom he will have mercy and compassion.

Stop with your false heretical teachings.
Your teaching is an abomination.
Please stay with the scriptures and take heed to the scriptures I gave you. :)
 
It is a given that the Spirit is at work in all believers in Christ that God has spiritually called to himself but how may are availing themselves or acknowledging the Spirit that is within them? Understand? :)
I understand, but that is not an answer to my question.

Was it the Holy Spirit that made the aforementioned mistake in the opening post?
 
I understand, but that is not an answer to my question.

Was it the Holy Spirit that made the aforementioned mistake in the opening post?
Are you saying that the Spirit has spoken to you that my opening post is in error? If so, and that is true I will let the the Spirit deal with me. Lord willing! :)
 
Are you saying that the Spirit has spoken to you that my opening post is in error? If so, and that is true I will let the the Spirit deal with me. Lord willing! :)
I am simply observing a mistake that we both, apparently agree exists (and should be corrected)..... and then asking you if you think the Holy Spirit inspired that mistake. It has nothing to do with me or whether or not the HS has spoken to me and everything to do with the objectively verifiable and agreed upon premise "the Spirit is at work in all believers". My question is directly related to the agreed-upon premise, "If a Christian does not have the Spirit then he is not of God and is not a Christian at all," while the op states, "Either the Spirit of Christ is in us or not...." The question and its answer are very relevant to the subject of this thread, so I hope the answer is forthcoming without further delay.


Was it the Holy Spirit that made the aforementioned mistake in the opening post?



.
 
I am simply observing a mistake that we both, apparently agree exists (and should be corrected)..... and then asking you if you think the Holy Spirit inspired that mistake. It has nothing to do with me or whether or not the HS has spoken to me and everything to do with the objectively verifiable and agreed upon premise "the Spirit is at work in all believers". My question is directly related to the agreed-upon premise, "If a Christian does not have the Spirit then he is not of God and is not a Christian at all," while the op states, "Either the Spirit of Christ is in us or not...." The question and its answer are very relevant to the subject of this thread, so I hope the answer is forthcoming without further delay.


Was it the Holy Spirit that made the aforementioned mistake in the opening post?



.
Where are you getting the implication in my post that I have said some Christians have the Spirit of God and others do not? You may think that the post implies that but it does not. What it does imply is that some Christians do not acknowledge the Holy Spirit that is within them in their walk in Christ. This is a serious implication and should be addressed. :)
 
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Where are you getting the implication in my post that I have said some Christians have the Spirit of God and others do not? You may think that the post implies that but it does not. What it does imply is that some Christians do not acknowledge the Holy Spirit that is within them in their walk in Christ. This is a serious implication and should be addressed. :)
Why are you delaying answering the question asked? Why are you now trying to obfuscate what you have already acknowledged?

The opening post states, "Either the Spirit of Christ is in us or not..." You have gone on record stating the "us" is Christians AND you have already gone on record stating a person without the Spirit is not a Christian. You have acknowledged the need to amend the op's statement to say the Spirit ALWAYS resides in a Christian and the question is whether or not the Christian follows that Spirit.


So I am now asking you if it was the Spirit that made the mistake of saying the Spirit is or is not in a Christian. Was it the Holy Spirit that made that mistake?
 
Where are you getting the implication in my post that some Christians have the Spirit of God and others do not? You may think that the post implies that but it does not. What it does imply is that some Christians do not acknowledge the Holy Spirit that is within them in their walk in Christ. This is a serious implication and should be addressed. By the way the answer to the question in the opening post is "yes"! :)

Why are you delaying answering the question asked? Why are you now trying to obfuscate what you have already acknowledged?

The opening post states, "Either the Spirit of Christ is in us or not..." You have gone on record stating the "us" is Christians AND you have already gone on record stating a person without the Spirit is not a Christian. You have acknowledged the need to amend the op's statement to say the Spirit ALWAYS resides in a Christian and the question is whether or not the Christian follows that Spirit.


So I am now asking you if it was the Spirit that made the mistake of saying the Spirit is or is not in a Christian. Was it the Holy Spirit that made that mistake?
You are misunderstanding, Josheb. There is no mention that Christian believers do not have the Holy Spirit nor is it implied. Confirming that one who does not have the Holy Spirit is not a Christian is not sting that the Christian does not have the indwelling Spirit because has! The reason that this is mentioned is that the Christian ought to acknowledge the Holy Spirit that is at work in his life and walk in the Spirit. There is no need to make any changes! :)
 
You are misunderstanding, Josheb.
No, I am not.
There is no mention that Christian believers do not have the Holy Spirit nor is it implied.
Never said otherwise, that has nothing to do with my question, and if the thinking is otherwise then the misunderstanding is on your part.
Confirming that one who does not have the Holy Spirit is not a Christian is...
....is irrelevant to my question.



I am going to explain it and then move on because the point has been demonstrably proven and much more substantively than I anticipated. I thought this was going to be seen, recognized instantly and immediately corrected - thereby proving both the point of the op and your ability to self-correct. I thought this was going to be resolved in two posts, in a single exchange!


  • The op states, "Either the Spirit of Christ is in us or not and if he is in us then all we think, say and do is in the Spirit."
  • The "us" in that statement is "the saints," or "Christians," making the sentence read, "Either the Spirit of Christ is in [Christians] or not and if he is in us then all we think, say and do is in the Spirit."
  • There are not Christians if whom the Spirit does not dwell. This statement is one with which we both agree. If a person does not have the Spirit indwelling, then s/he is not a Christian. Period. But the fourth line of the op incorrectly states it is possible for a Christian to not have the Spirit within.
  • That error was corrected, but only after the mistake was brought to the forefront.
  • Not only was the error corrected, but the intent of the op's statement was clarified to say "we," the saints, or Christians, are either hearing, abiding, and following the Spirit's leading and empowerment or we are not.

A second problem then insured.

The second problem has to do with the very point being made in the fourth line of the op because..... it was NOT the Holy Spirit that made the mistake of line 4. It was you, SeventhDay, it was the flesh, not the Holy Spirit that made that mistake. That mistake was NOT made by hearing, listening to, and obeying the Spirit because the Holy Spirit never would have confused of conflated those living with the Spirit inside with those who have no Spirit inside. The Spirit would never have remotely suggested, "Either the Spirit of Christ is in us or not...." The Holy Spirit would have correctly articulated the truth correctly the first time. The Spirit of Christ is in us..... but we do not always listen.

That problem then gets compounded by the fact the Holy Spirit working within you wants you to correct the mistake, wants you to state the truth, wants you to acknowledge the mistake in the fourth sentence of the op came from your flesh and NOT from the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit wants you to rejoice in the correction and the truth.

But that did not happen. None of it happened.

As a consequence, the op became an object lesson and not just a didactic lesson. The mistake of the words became a mistake in doing. By refusing to acknowledge the Holy Spirit did not make that mistake the point you wanted to make was demonstrated! The truth was eventually posted, but the action that should be following that correction has yet to occur.

The corrected op is correct.

And you demonstrated it.



Here's my recommendation: Before clicking the "Post reply" button give your posts a re-read and try reading the post as the readers would read it. Hear how it sounds to those who do not know how to read others' minds ;). Then give it a second re-read with the critic or adversary in mind. Try not to provide flaws for trolls to exploit. Then, once the post has been posted give it a third-re-read while the window of editing still exists so any clarifications of correction can be made. Do all three listening to the Holy Spirit because he's the best solution. It'll slow things down. It's not a perfect solution because we're still working with the flesh and our own limitations, but it will help improve articulation and reduce mistakes.


It is hard to see the picture from within the frame.




I still love you 😏. See you in the next op :).
 
No, I am not.

Never said otherwise, that has nothing to do with my question, and if the thinking is otherwise then the misunderstanding is on your part.

....is irrelevant to my question.



I am going to explain it and then move on because the point has been demonstrably proven and much more substantively than I anticipated. I thought this was going to be seen, recognized instantly and immediately corrected - thereby proving both the point of the op and your ability to self-correct. I thought this was going to be resolved in two posts, in a single exchange!


  • The op states, "Either the Spirit of Christ is in us or not and if he is in us then all we think, say and do is in the Spirit."
  • The "us" in that statement is "the saints," or "Christians," making the sentence read, "Either the Spirit of Christ is in [Christians] or not and if he is in us then all we think, say and do is in the Spirit."
  • There are not Christians if whom the Spirit does not dwell. This statement is one with which we both agree. If a person does not have the Spirit indwelling, then s/he is not a Christian. Period. But the fourth line of the op incorrectly states it is possible for a Christian to not have the Spirit within.
  • That error was corrected, but only after the mistake was brought to the forefront.
  • Not only was the error corrected, but the intent of the op's statement was clarified to say "we," the saints, or Christians, are either hearing, abiding, and following the Spirit's leading and empowerment or we are not.

A second problem then insured.

The second problem has to do with the very point being made in the fourth line of the op because..... it was NOT the Holy Spirit that made the mistake of line 4. It was you, SeventhDay, it was the flesh, not the Holy Spirit that made that mistake. That mistake was NOT made by hearing, listening to, and obeying the Spirit because the Holy Spirit never would have confused of conflated those living with the Spirit inside with those who have no Spirit inside. The Spirit would never have remotely suggested, "Either the Spirit of Christ is in us or not...." The Holy Spirit would have correctly articulated the truth correctly the first time. The Spirit of Christ is in us..... but we do not always listen.

That problem then gets compounded by the fact the Holy Spirit working within you wants you to correct the mistake, wants you to state the truth, wants you to acknowledge the mistake in the fourth sentence of the op came from your flesh and NOT from the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit wants you to rejoice in the correction and the truth.

But that did not happen. None of it happened.

As a consequence, the op became an object lesson and not just a didactic lesson. The mistake of the words became a mistake in doing. By refusing to acknowledge the Holy Spirit did not make that mistake the point you wanted to make was demonstrated! The truth was eventually posted, but the action that should be following that correction has yet to occur.

The corrected op is correct.

And you demonstrated it.



Here's my recommendation: Before clicking the "Post reply" button give your posts a re-read and try reading the post as the readers would read it. Hear how it sounds to those who do not know how to read others' minds ;). Then give it a second re-read with the critic or adversary in mind. Try not to provide flaws for trolls to exploit. Then, once the post has been posted give it a third-re-read while the window of editing still exists so any clarifications of correction can be made. Do all three listening to the Holy Spirit because he's the best solution. It'll slow things down. It's not a perfect solution because we're still working with the flesh and our own limitations, but it will help improve articulation and reduce mistakes.


It is hard to see the picture from within the frame.




I still love you 😏. See you in the next op :).
Much ado about nothing , Josheb! Either the Spirit of Christ is in us or not is a rhetorical question, It is that simple. Of course we have the Spirit thus we should acknowledge him/ No need to wase internet bandwidth is there!

God bless you? :)
 
Life of Grace received by faith and baptism
One is quickened out of death then called to Christ and given the gift of faith and the indwelling Holy Spirit and believes in Jesus. It is all of God! Baptism is a public ritual acknowledging the death of the old man replaced by the new spiritual man. :)
 
One is quickened out of death then called to Christ and given the gift of faith and the indwelling Holy Spirit and believes in Jesus. It is all of God! Baptism is a public ritual acknowledging the death of the old man replaced by the new spiritual man. :)
Baptism is real not meaningless “public” display, Christ rebuked the Pharisees for desiring to be seen in public
 
Yes! Do you think it is the means of initiating into the new covenant of grace or “faith alone”?
No, it is just a public response and display of our faith in what Jesus has done which is to take away the old man who is dead with Christ in his death and to replace him with the new spiritual man in Christ as he rises out of death. :)
 
No, it is just a public response and display of our faith in what Jesus has done which is to take away the old man who is dead with Christ in his death and to replace him with the new spiritual man in Christ as he rises out of death. :)
There is no salvation with the sacraments the means of God’s saving grace merited by Christ and applied to our souls!

Promise of God:
Sacred oath:
A promise or sacred oath made by God is called a sacrament:
A sacrament is also the fruit of a sacrifice, grace or the merits of Christ are fruit of His sacrifice on the cross!

Heb 8:8 better sacraments
Lk 1:72
Acts 2:39 referring to ez 36:25-27
Acts 1:4
Acts 2:33
Acts 13:23
Acts 13:32
Acts 26:6
Acts 26:7
Rom 1:2
2 Tim 1:1-2
2 pet 1:4
1 Jn 2:25 and many more!



Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

It’s not a do it yourself religion!
It’s not a bible study!

It’s a covenant!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” aint biblical!

You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical! Matt 16:18-19 Jn 20:21 eph 2:20

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!

Psalm 51 Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!

Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Sacraments are the fruits of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ!
 
John prepared the way by “water baptism”!
Jesus says “water baptism” Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 apostles say “water baptism” acts 2:38-39 acts 22:16 1 pet 3:20-21 God says “water baptism” ez 36:25-27
Jn 3:22 they immediately went to the river (water) and they baptized!


Christian baptism is an outward sign of the inward action of grace, or merits of Christ’s passion blood and death applied to our souls!

We cannot see the inward action of grace purifying the soul, so God gave us the outward “sign” of water washing the body to indicate the inward action of grace and connected the two.
 
Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

Faith and baptism are required Mk 16:16 eph 4:5

Faith alone even all faith avails NOTHING! 1 cor 13:2
 
Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!

“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!


Christ instituted the holy church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation. (repent and believe the gospel) with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!
Matt 28:19

Not a public show!
 
There is no salvation with the sacraments the means of God’s saving grace merited by Christ and applied to our souls!

Promise of God:
Sacred oath:
A promise or sacred oath made by God is called a sacrament:
A sacrament is also the fruit of a sacrifice, grace or the merits of Christ are fruit of His sacrifice on the cross!

Heb 8:8 better sacraments
Lk 1:72
Acts 2:39 referring to ez 36:25-27
Acts 1:4
Acts 2:33
Acts 13:23
Acts 13:32
Acts 26:6
Acts 26:7
Rom 1:2
2 Tim 1:1-2
2 pet 1:4
1 Jn 2:25 and many more!



Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

It’s not a do it yourself religion!
It’s not a bible study!

It’s a covenant!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” aint biblical!

You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical! Matt 16:18-19 Jn 20:21 eph 2:20

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!

Psalm 51 Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!

Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Sacraments are the fruits of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ!
Yes!
 
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