What about the Mentally Handicapped?

[prism]

I spent 25 years working with adults with developmental disabilities (IQs between 45 and 85, including those who were neurodivergent (the latest term for the category that includes Autism, or spectrum disorders). They can and often do respond to the gospel. In point of fact two of the most faithful and Christlike people I have ever met had Down's Syndrome, one with an IQ of 45 and the other with an IQ of 57.

I spent zero years with such, that's why I am asking.

Were any of those children reported to have any disability? If not, then why misuse the verse to suggest it is about those specified in the op?

I don't know what disability they may have had, it was simply an alternative that came to mind

 

[prism]

Currently I tend to think Jesus finds a way "so to speak" as presented in the video in post 4.

Jesus finds a way or Jesus is the way? Post #4 looked like a podcast ...more opinions.

In fact many strange things are happening...the Islams and the vision or dreams of the man in white that are occurring in areas where the gospel is strictly forbidden and people have no means of hearing it are also interesting.

Interesting. But off topic.

If God wants those individuals with Autism, Down Syndrome, ADHD, Tourette Syndrome etc. to be saved, they will.

True, but that holds true for anybody.

 

[prism]

The point being that our intellect —even the most intelligent of us— is not sufficient to do the job.

Of course...

1 Corinthians 1:26-29 ESV
For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. [27] But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; [28] God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, [29] so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.

 

[CrowCross]

Jesus finds a way or Jesus is the way?

Well, I did say...."so to speak"

Post #4 looked like a podcast ...more opinions.

It's more of the experience on 2 men.

The video shows how Jesus may deal with the autistic.

Did you watch the video?

Interesting. But off topic.

Yes, it was used to show how Jesus reaches different people who normally don't have the means of hearing the Gospel.

True, but that holds true for anybody.

That's true. The issue is how?

 

[Josheb]

Thank you for this.

You are welcome.

However, for you, @ElectedbyHim and @prism, to reiterate the salient point, intellectual impairment is not an obstacle for God. If He wishes to save a person, then He can and will save them regardless of who or what they are (or are not). This is axiomatic. Christians who try to reason through scripture to hypothesize case where some group of people is saved despite or in spite of some conditions are needlessly misusing (or abusing) scripture because scripture was not written about marginal populations. It was written about those who do possess intellectual and volitional faculties.


Special pleading is always and everywhere a fallacy. It is also unnecessary.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

You are welcome.

However, for you, @ElectedbyHim and @prism, to reiterate the salient point, intellectual impairment is not an obstacle for God. If He wishes to save a person, then He can and will save them regardless of who or what they are (or are not). This is axiomatic. Christians who try to reason through scripture to hypothesize case where some group of people is saved despite or in spite of some conditions are needlessly misusing (or abusing) scripture because scripture was not written about marginal populations. It was written about those who do possess intellectual and volitional faculties.


Special pleading is always and everywhere a fallacy. It is also unnecessary.

I agree.

The Lord has no obstacles, He will save whom He pleases.

 

[Josheb]

I agree.

The Lord has no obstacles, He will save whom He pleases.

Which means.....

...human impairments thought to prevent consent are a problem only for synergism, not monergism. Because of its dependence on human faculties, volitionalism creates a problem it cannot solve without hypothetical appeals to the silence of scripture and misusive additions or interpretations of scripture (like appealing to folks coming as little children and defining that to fit the need).


When I first took a job as a live-counselor/educator, living with three mean whose IQs were all below 70, my boss told me, "These people are the prophets of our day. Most people don't know they exist except as a statistic, but they teach us how to live." He was correct. Fred (not his real name, was patient, kind, satisfied, humble, becoming, calm, forgiving and unscoring, rejoicing, forbearing, hopeful, and enduring. Because he is now with the Lord....

The whole world has a hole in it and is a lesser place .

 

[ElectedbyHim]

Which means.....

...human impairments thought to prevent consent are a problem only for synergism, not monergism. Because of its dependence on human faculties, volitionalism creates a problem it cannot solve without hypothetical appeals to the silence of scripture and misusive additions or interpretations of scripture (like appealing to folks coming as little children and defining that to fit the need).


When I first took a job as a live-counselor/educator, living with three mean whose IQs were all below 70, my boss told me, "These people are the prophets of our day. Most people don't know they exist except as a statistic, but they teach us how to live." He was correct. Fred (not his real name, was patient, kind, satisfied, humble, becoming, calm, forgiving and unscoring, rejoicing, forbearing, hopeful, and enduring. Because he is now with the Lord....

The whole world has a hole in it and is a lesser place .

I look at the humility, gentleness, kindness and so on of some of these residents.

It truly amazes me how they are so different so-called normal people.

There are some that do act out in such a way that I think they are demon possessed, of course, that is my assumption.

I am treating my job title for these individuals as a ministry for Christ (not certain you can call cooking a ministry), to bring Him glory and see what He may have for me to do.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[makesends]

You are welcome.

However, for you, @ElectedbyHim and @prism, to reiterate the salient point, intellectual impairment is not an obstacle for God. If He wishes to save a person, then He can and will save them regardless of who or what they are (or are not). This is axiomatic. Christians who try to reason through scripture to hypothesize case where some group of people is saved despite or in spite of some conditions are needlessly misusing (or abusing) scripture because scripture was not written about marginal populations. It was written about those who do possess intellectual and volitional faculties.


Special pleading is always and everywhere a fallacy. It is also unnecessary.

You say, "[Scripture] was written about those who do possess intellectual and volitional faculties."

I would say that the principles are there, well enough covered, that even those who don't possess intellectual and volitional faculties are still rather obviously saved by the grace of God and not otherwise.

 

[Josheb]

I look at the humility, gentleness, kindness and so on of some of these residents.

It truly amazes me how they are so different so-called normal people.

There are some that do act out in such a way that I think they are demon possessed, of course, that is my assumption.

I am treating my job title for these individuals as a ministry for Christ (not certain you can call cooking a ministry), to bring Him glory and see what He may have for me to do.

Grace and peace to you.

The first lesson wise ministers and missionaries learn in the field is that they are the field. I shudder to think what I might be like were it not for the time spent among marginalized.

You say, "[Scripture] was written about those who do possess intellectual and volitional faculties."

I would say that the principles are there, well enough covered, that even those who don't possess intellectual and volitional faculties are still rather obviously saved by the grace of God and not otherwise.

That is certainly true for the monergist. The monergist has no dilemma that prompts, much less requires, speculation or invention concerning the eternal disposition of those not mentioned. To the synergists I say start with what is explicitly stated and make sure any and all inferences are based on that first and foremost, but if that was practiced there'd be no synergism and thereby no dilemma to address .

 

[ElectedbyHim]

The first lesson wise ministers and missionaries learn in the field is that they are the field. I shudder to think what I might be like were it not for the time spent among marginalized.

That is certainly true for the monergist. The monergist has no dilemma that prompts, much less requires, speculation or invention concerning the eternal disposition of those not mentioned. To the synergists I say start with what is explicitly stated and make sure any and all inferences are based on that first and foremost, but if that was practiced there'd be no synergism and thereby no dilemma to address .

The first lesson wise ministers and missionaries learn in the field is that they are the field. I shudder to think what I might be like were it not for the time spent among marginalized.

I know I am going off topic here, but would you mind clarifying this statement better for my understanding?

 

[fastfredy0]

what I might be like were it not for the time spent among marginalized.

You're welcome.

 

[prism]

However, for you, @ElectedbyHim and @prism, to reiterate the salient point, intellectual impairment is not an obstacle for God.

Naturally, that isn't even the question, if He can make raise the stones that they would praise Him, intellectual impairment would be no problem.
Luke 19:39-40 ESV
And some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to him, "Teacher, rebuke your disciples." [40] He answered, "I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out."

 

[Josheb]

I know I am going off topic here, but would you mind clarifying this statement better for my understanding?

I read mention of "ministry." I know that's not the same as missionary but people who go into ministry of any kind (formal clergy, ladling soup at the soup kitchen, teaching youth group, etc.) invariably end up learning, being sanctified, maturing through the experience. They/we go in seeking to help others and are the ones helped. Helping and being helped are mutually occurring conditions (when done correctly). Did Paul mature over the history of his epistolary, or not?

 

[Josheb]

Naturally, that isn't even the question, if He can make raise the stones that they would praise Him, intellectual impairment would be no problem.
Luke 19:39-40 ESV
And some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to him, "Teacher, rebuke your disciples." [40] He answered, "I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out."

I agree but the soteriology boards in most forums show a lot of disagreement debate exists. When those discussions turn to the question of the salvation of those not considered able to cognitively respond salvifically then eisegesis and speculation ensue.... and it usually ensues without the speculators observing what they're doing.

 

[atpollard]

What about them???

Probably best we euthanize all of them as infants since EVERYONE agrees that all infants go to Heaven. (I think that is what they are looking for … an excuse to call somebody a Nazi.)

 

[fastfredy0]

since EVERYONE agrees that all infants go to Heaven

I'm on the fence on that opinion though it's not a popular opinion so I won't expand on this.

 

[Josheb]

I'm on the fence on that opinion though it's not a popular opinion so I won't expand on this.

I think he was being rhetorical. I, for one, do not believe all infants go to heaven (unless God chooses to save them all).

 

[ElectedbyHim]

I read mention of "ministry." I know that's not the same as missionary but people who go into ministry of any kind (formal clergy, ladling soup at the soup kitchen, teaching youth group, etc.) invariably end up learning, being sanctified, maturing through the experience. They/we go in seeking to help others and are the ones helped. Helping and being helped are mutually occurring conditions (when done correctly). Did Paul mature over the history of his epistolary, or not?

Did Paul mature over the history of his epistolary, or not?

Of course.

Thank you.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

I'm on the fence on that opinion though it's not a popular opinion so I won't expand on this.

I am with you on this.

Although what David said always comes to mind.

And many commentators interpret this differently

2 Samuel 12:23 “But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”