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@Ritajanice
Part One
Rita is tagged in this OP because of statements she made and questions she asked in a thread that pulled that thread off topic. One of the statements being, that we do not get born again from the Bible. It is unclear what she means by this, but subsequent questions to her about what was meant, produced no viable answers. Neither was she able to explain how we are born again and have the indwelling of the Spirit, or how the Spirit bears witness to our spirit that we are the children of God. It appeared that to her it was some feeling we get, near as I can tell. It came out in the debate that she is a Charismatic, and then I began to understand the confusion in ascertaining what she meant, and her inability to even explain it. The teachings in Charismatic churches give no grounding on which to define it. When debating with non-Charismatics, it is like two people trying to communicate by speaking different languages but using the same words. However, it is an important subject and I do not want to stand alone in what I say. Neither do I want the subject to go unexplored and the insights and views of others to be absent. It is a much bigger and more important topic and my words should not stand in isolation from the careful, doctrinally sound and supported, perspectives of the rest of the body of Christ who are present on the forum. As J.I, Packer said in his book Knowing God, "If there was no work of the Holy Spirit, there would be no gospel and no Christians." There would be no new birth.
In addition all that I am about to put forth comes from deep study on the matter, post my own Charismatic days, where I bore witness to the teachings and the activities, and things said to be the Holy Spirit. I am attempting here to begin to shed biblical light on the movement that is so absent any biblical light. Rather it supports itself, and that loosely, with scriptures that are isolated from all context and from sound biblical hermeneutical examination or even any interest in the use of hermeneutical tools altogether. Are times, an outright disdain of them.
The Holy Spirit is a personal being, the third person of the Trinity. As such, he does not work independently of the Father's will or of the Son's will. He was sent by the Father and the Son for a specific purpose and work, just as Jesus was sent by the Father for a specific purpose and work -----in this case, relating to salvation. He is not some mythical, mystical, invisible force, to be conjured into catering to the whims and demands of people. That is an occult, pagan view. He is in fact a parallel figure to Christ, the "another" Helper.
We need to examine the scriptures to ascertain what the work of the Holy Spirit is in redemption.
On the eve of his crucifixion and departure, Jesus said to his disciples in John 14:25-26 "These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you." Previously in verses 16-17 he told his disciples, "And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor know him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you."
We learn here that the Holy Spirit comes in Christ's stead.
Part One
Rita is tagged in this OP because of statements she made and questions she asked in a thread that pulled that thread off topic. One of the statements being, that we do not get born again from the Bible. It is unclear what she means by this, but subsequent questions to her about what was meant, produced no viable answers. Neither was she able to explain how we are born again and have the indwelling of the Spirit, or how the Spirit bears witness to our spirit that we are the children of God. It appeared that to her it was some feeling we get, near as I can tell. It came out in the debate that she is a Charismatic, and then I began to understand the confusion in ascertaining what she meant, and her inability to even explain it. The teachings in Charismatic churches give no grounding on which to define it. When debating with non-Charismatics, it is like two people trying to communicate by speaking different languages but using the same words. However, it is an important subject and I do not want to stand alone in what I say. Neither do I want the subject to go unexplored and the insights and views of others to be absent. It is a much bigger and more important topic and my words should not stand in isolation from the careful, doctrinally sound and supported, perspectives of the rest of the body of Christ who are present on the forum. As J.I, Packer said in his book Knowing God, "If there was no work of the Holy Spirit, there would be no gospel and no Christians." There would be no new birth.
In addition all that I am about to put forth comes from deep study on the matter, post my own Charismatic days, where I bore witness to the teachings and the activities, and things said to be the Holy Spirit. I am attempting here to begin to shed biblical light on the movement that is so absent any biblical light. Rather it supports itself, and that loosely, with scriptures that are isolated from all context and from sound biblical hermeneutical examination or even any interest in the use of hermeneutical tools altogether. Are times, an outright disdain of them.
The Holy Spirit is a personal being, the third person of the Trinity. As such, he does not work independently of the Father's will or of the Son's will. He was sent by the Father and the Son for a specific purpose and work, just as Jesus was sent by the Father for a specific purpose and work -----in this case, relating to salvation. He is not some mythical, mystical, invisible force, to be conjured into catering to the whims and demands of people. That is an occult, pagan view. He is in fact a parallel figure to Christ, the "another" Helper.
We need to examine the scriptures to ascertain what the work of the Holy Spirit is in redemption.
On the eve of his crucifixion and departure, Jesus said to his disciples in John 14:25-26 "These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you." Previously in verses 16-17 he told his disciples, "And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor know him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you."
We learn here that the Holy Spirit comes in Christ's stead.