The Propitiation/Expiation Only Debate

[brightfame52]

Why are you presenting your same old illogical and off topic argument back into this thread. That violates three rules.

Spoiler: Rules-violating content

I knew you were going to get angry and say Im breaking rules, but its a sham, but do what you do, its all under Gods control

 

[James]

Did Christ purge their sin B4 they came to Christ and believe?

The elect will experience salvation at the exact moment that God has appointed, but until that time comes, they are a child of wrath.

 

[brightfame52]

The elect will experience salvation at the exact moment that God has appointed, but until that time comes, they are a child of wrath.

But they are never under Gods wrath, even while by nature they are children of wrath. Even as children of wrath and at enmity against God, nevertheless because Christ has died for them and appeasing wrathful justice, they are reconciled to God Rom 5:10

 

[Arial]

But they are never under Gods wrath, even while by nature they are children of wrath. Even as children of wrath and at enmity against God, nevertheless because Christ has died for them and appeasing wrathful justice, they are reconciled to God Rom 5:10

They aren't reconciled until they are reconciled by regeneration. That is why the Bible uses the word "predestined" regarding the elect. And that is enough said as you are simply trying to hijack this thread to be about your one and only subject. Anything more on it will be deleted as per the rules.

 

[makesends]

But they are never under Gods wrath, even while by nature they are children of wrath. Even as children of wrath and at enmity against God, nevertheless because Christ has died for them and appeasing wrathful justice, they are reconciled to God Rom 5:10

I know I'm beating a dead horse, but you are anchoring your thesis in time. It is the event, not the time of the event. Going by your reasoning, you may as well say they were reconciled to God at the time that God created them, which turns the whole argument on its head, since they, then, didn't need to be reconciled to God.

 

[brightfame52]

I know I'm beating a dead horse, but you are anchoring your thesis in time.

The time of the Cross! The elect were reconciled to God while being enemies by the death of Christ. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

That's a Gospel Truth of the Cross ! 1 Cor 1

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Gal 6 14

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

 

[JesusFan]

The expiation of sins is because his work on the cross satisfied God's just wrath against the sinner. If that were not the case, sin would not be judged and God would not be just.

Do you not agree with penal substitutionary atonement? Do you think that just because someone is elect, their sins are already expiated sins before they come to Christ through faith? That would make a good case for antinomianism.

It would also support a straw man criticism of those opposing Reformed theology when they accuse it of teaching that no faith is needed.

Believe our brother holds to Hyper Calvinistic theology of us being eternally justified

 

[brightfame52]

They aren't reconciled until they are reconciled by regeneration.

Thats false because the elect were reconciled to God by the death of His Son even while they were being enemies Rom 5:10

10 ;For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So that's b4 regeneration, the elect are no longer enemies when regenerate

Were enemies is present tense in the greek, were reconciled is aorist past tense