The Ordo Salutis

[Carbon]

Does the Bible indicate a definite Ordo Salutis?

Personally, I believe, that while it does not explicitly furnish us a complete order of salvation, it offers us a sufficient basis for such an order.

Consider Romans 8:29-30.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
But since the bible does not give us a clear-cut Ordo Salutis, it does do two things to enable us to construe such an order.
1, It furnishes us with a very full and rich enumeration of the operations of the Holy Spirit in applying the work of Christ to individual sinners, and of the blessings of salvation imparted to them.
2, It indicates in many passages and in various ways the relation in which the different movements in the work of redemption stand to each other. It teaches that we are justified by faith and not by works, Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.; 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: ; Gal 2:16-20
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. ; That being justified, we have peace with God and assess to Him, Romans 5:1-2
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
that we are set free from sin to become servants of righteousness and to reap the fruit of sanctification.

Thoughts?

 

[Alive]

Yes--all of the Riches of Christ are a reality for us the very moment the Father places us in Him..excepting the final Resurrrection in time and space.
One might argue that our foreordination is first in order, but beyond that---there is no 1,2.3. We get the whole package at once.

 

[1Thess521]

Does the Bible indicate a definite Ordo Salutis?

Romans 8:
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Acts 16:
14 One of those listening was a woman from the city of Thyatira named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth. She was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message.

 

[fastfredy0]

Personally, I believe, that while it does not explicitly furnish us a complete order of salvation, it offers us a sufficient basis for such an order.

Agreed ... I vote for supralapsarian.

 

[Carbon]

Agreed ... I vote for supralapsarian.View attachment 963

I vote the same.

 

[Mr GLee]

Does the Bible indicate a definite Ordo Salutis?

Personally, I believe, that while it does not explicitly furnish us a complete order of salvation, it offers us a sufficient basis for such an order.

Consider Romans 8:29-30.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
But since the bible does not give us a clear-cut Ordo Salutis, it does do two things to enable us to construe such an order.
1, It furnishes us with a very full and rich enumeration of the operations of the Holy Spirit in applying the work of Christ to individual sinners, and of the blessings of salvation imparted to them.
2, It indicates in many passages and in various ways the relation in which the different movements in the work of redemption stand to each other. It teaches that we are justified by faith and not by works, Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.; 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: ; Gal 2:16-20
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. ; That being justified, we have peace with God and assess to Him, Romans 5:1-2
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
that we are set free from sin to become servants of righteousness and to reap the fruit of sanctification.

Thoughts?

The truth of the miracle . . that we can offer our "good works" to a invisible God is a bonus gift that acompanies salvation. Being born again .he promises he will not forget the good works of those yoked with his labor of love

Philippian 2 declares it is God who works in us to both (the key) understand his will and empower us to do it to his good pleasure

Hebrew 6:9-10 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

 

[Josheb]

The poll asks,

Does the Bible teach or indicate a Ordo Saludis?"

...while the opening post asks,

Does the Bible indicate a definite Ordo Salutis?

Those are, technically, two different questions. The Bible could teach or indicate an order of salvation that is not definite. Some of the exceptions to the rule (like those who had only the baptism of John) would at least seemingly indicate the order is not definite or definitive.

Personally, I believe, that while it does not explicitly furnish us a complete order of salvation, it offers us a sufficient basis for such an order.

I agree.

Consider Romans 8:29-30.......

Thoughts?

The use of the Romans text is informative but, as a monergist of Reformed persuasion I think it very important to start the Ordo Salutis with eternity and not an eternal event because no eternal event occurs without God "first" acting prior to time. That being said, the temporal order is logically self-evident in scripture once the whole of scripture is considered. For example, how could a person be redeemed or justified or indwelt, or sealed without first being chosen? Since one of the purposes of salvation is good works God had already planned for us to perform (Eph. 2:10), logic dictates a set of planned works existed prior to any gifting of any ability to do those works. Unless we're to think the constituent aspects of the order are to exist and be accomplished in our ignorance then aspects such as calling and knowledge and understanding must be included. How (for example) could someone perform already-prescribed good works without having been chosen and called?

Since the order is not explicitly stated and laid out for us, the biggest challenge is putting that together. Some of the aspects overlap. Justification, for example, occurs in several ways and there are pre-regeneration or pre-conversion aspects and post-conversion aspects. Therefore a few conditions or events might be listed twice or thrice in the order salutis. while others only once. For example, a simple statement like, "...we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law," (Rom. 3:28) necessarily means faith must exist prior to justification, otherwise how could a person be justified by faith? Ephesians 2 states salvation by grace through faith is a gift from God so, again, some order is implicitly established because there can be no faith by which a person is justified if the gifting had not previously occurred. to whom would such gifting be given if God hadn't already chosen and called the one to whom he is gifting? So just these few texts establish some semblance of an order: choosing, then calling, then gifting, then faith, then justification, then works.

But justification also occurs at Calvary. We are justified by the blood of Christ (not merely faith in the blood of Christ), according to Romans 5:9 and, according to James those having faith are also justified by works. Those two texts mean there is a justification that precedes faith and a justification that follows faith. Therefore, either justification gets plugged into the order of salvation multiple times, or it is a long running condition that transcends several steps in the order in differing ways. I am inclined toward the latter because the power effects of the blood of Christ are not fixed in time (and I think that is the point of the blood). I am inclined to think the latter because like many of the other aspects of salvation, justification does not reach its full potential until we stand before God. That's what justification is all about, the ability to stand before God. No one can do that and live apart from the blood of Christ. Therefore, there is a fourth place for justification to be plugged into the ordo salutis! And, of course, the critical event in salvation is our resurrection from the dead and the transformation that occurs thereof. Those three events (physical death, resurrection, and transformation) get plugged into the end of the order of salvation.

Most lists of Ordo Salutis I've read don't get as detailed as I've just been. Some examples (like this one HERE) speak of the order in categorical ways where the events surrounding resurrection would fall under the category of "glorification." The example HERE is a little more detailed but still categorical. And, of course, there are doctrinal biases we impose on scripture because the monergist holds regeneration precedes faith, while the synergist holds the exact opposite point of view. Those two views also effect and/or redefine other constituent events in the Ordo Salutis. For the monergist, for example, the choosing and calling come inherently with a sovereignty to the point neither can or will be effective/ineffective apart from God's will or purpose, but for the synergist the choosing is predicated on a previously existing faith of the sinful flesh and the calling presents and option likewise predicated on the existence of the sinner's fleshly faith. That's a fundamentally different Ordo Salutis.