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The Myth of Armageddon

eclipseEventSigns

Endeavoring to interpret prophecy correctly.
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There is a big problem with our assumptions regarding "Armageddon". It's a term which has taken on epic connotations. Any use of this particular word immediately conjures up images of the most violent, bloody battles imaginable. It's the war to end all wars. But is the common understanding actually correct?

The English word "Armageddon" is found in only one place in the Bible. Revelation 16:16
[Rev 16:16 ESV] And they assembled them at the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

I've quoted the ESV as an example of a very typical translation of this verse. Some translators have included footnotes which state: "Some mss read Armagedon ; other mss read Harmegedon ; other mss read Mageddon ; other mss read Magedon "

So there are variants of the spelling found in the Greek manuscripts. Let's start investigating why this could be. First, it's very important to keep in mind that this is stated to be from a Hebrew word – it's a Greek transliteration. This word did not exist in the Greek language. Next, notice that some manuscripts include "Ar" or "Har" and some don't. So whatever this term is in Hebrew it very likely is made up of two components which have been combined in the transliteration.

The "H" in Hebrew is a very breathy sound. The manuscripts which do not include the "H" recognize this fact and don't include it in their transliteration. In Hebrew, the word "har" does exist (Strong's H2022). It means mountain or hill.

The rest of the term is assumed to be "Megiddo" or "Megiddon" (Strong's H4023). The pronunciation of the "don" is actually "doh" – the 'n' is silent. Scholars have most often connected this with the city/place named Megiddo which is about 55 miles north of Jerusalem and about 11 miles from Nazareth.

The word itself also has a particular meaning. It's stated to mean "place of crowds" or "rendezvous". This will be particulary significant as we continue.

Megiddo is named several times in the Old Testament. It is the site of several battles. One of the most significant is that which pitted King Josiah against Pharoah Neco (II Chron 35, II Kings 23). Neco had warned Josiah not to get involved as the Egyptian army made their way to Carchemish to engage the Babylonians and to help their Assyrian ally. Josiah ignored this warning (said to be of God) and was killed at Megiddo.

This leads to the other place where Megiddo is mentioned – Zechariah 12:11
[Zec 12:11 LSB] 11 "In that day there will be great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the plain of Megiddo."
This place called Hadadrimmon occurs only in this verse and scholars have determined it is quite near to the Megiddo site itself. It is not said when this time of mourning occurred. However, after the death of Josiah there was an intense time of mourning for thier righteous king. Even Jeremiah composed a lament.

But notice the significant detail. It is in the "plain of Megiddo". This term also occurs in II Chron 35:22. No where does it say Megiddo was associated with a mountain. The nearest mountain is Mount Carmel. So this is a detail which suggests the common assumption might not be accurate.

Zechariah 12 is very significant for another related reason. It is God's prophecy about the battle that God has with the nations of the world....at Jerusalem. The text describes a siege against Jerusalem (Zech 12:2). Multiple times it is stated this battle happens during the Day of Yahweh – short hand "that day". This phrase occurs Zech 12:3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 11. But the common assumption is that the battle to end all battles is at "Armageddon". Zech 12:9 specifically states that the armies of the world attack at Jerusalem.
[Zec 12:9 LSB] "And it will be in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem."

Zechariah 14 also describes the same battle:
[Zec 14:3 LSB] Then Yahweh will go forth and fight against those nations, as the day when He fights on a day of battle."
Seven times the phrase "that day" occurs in the chapter.

Ezekiel 38 and 39 describes the same battle:
[Eze 38:21, 23 LSB] 21 "And I will call for a sword against him on all My mountains," declares Lord Yahweh. "Every man's sword will be against his brother. ... 23 "And I will magnify Myself, I will manifest Myself as holy, and I will make Myself known in the sight of many nations; and they will know that I am Yahweh."'

Daniel 11:45 describes this same battle at the Holy Mountain where Jerusalem is located:
[Dan 11:45 LSB] 45 "And he (King of the North) will pitch the tents of his royal pavilion between the seas and the beautiful Holy Mountain; yet he will come to his end, and no one will help him.

Revelation 14 describes this same battle:
[Rev 14:20 LSB] 20 And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood came out from the wine press, up to the horses' bridles, for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

Revelation 19 describes this same battle:
[Rev 19:19 LSB] 19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war with Him who sits on the horse and with His army.

Zechariah 14 gives the details about a massive earthquake which splits the Mount of Olives.
[Zec 14:4-5 LSB] 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south. ... Then Yahweh, my God, will come, [and] all the holy ones with Him!

Joel 3 also gives details about this final battle at the valley of Jehoshaphat. This is the Kidron Valley next to the Mount of Olives.
[Joe 3:12-16 LSB] 12 Let the nations be roused up And come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat, For there I will sit to judge All the surrounding nations. 13 Send in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, tread, for the wine press is full; The vats overflow, for their evil is great. 14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of Yahweh is near in the valley of decision. 15 The sun and moon grow dark, And the stars lose their brightness. 16 And Yahweh roars from Zion And gives forth His voice from Jerusalem, And the heavens and the earth quake. But Yahweh is a refuge for His people And a strong defense to the sons of Israel.

This is the valley which will contain the blood up to the height of the horse bridle. It will flow about 180 miles – which just happens to be the distance from Jerusalem to the Gulf of Aqaba. There is nothing significant 180 miles from Megiddo. And it's quite a different image to have a wide flat plain filled 5 feet deep with blood as opposed to a valley. But both thoughts are horrific none the less.

The fact is that there is no mention of a final battle happening at Megiddo. But...what about Revelation 16:16 – it says it right there. Does it though?

For this we have to take a deep dive into the Hebrew word that the transliteration is most likely from.
הַרמְגִדּוֹן

The Hebrew alphabet consists of consonants. The vowels are indicated by markings above and below. These vowel markings were invented by the Massoretes during the last centuries of the first millennium AD. During the Biblical era, there was no systematized indication of the vowels so pronunciation was memorized and handed down from generation to generation. There were also different dialects which also modified how people pronounced certain words.

So what the Greek transliterated, it is made up of the combination Hebrew letters:
"har" + m + g + d + 'oh' + n

The vowels between were not specified and it would have been according to how it sounded to the ear of the Greek author/scribe. It was tranliterated to:
"h" + "ah" + "r" + "m" + "eh" + "g" + "ee" + "d" + "oh" (+ "n")

The Peshitta, the New Testament in Aramaic/Syriac is also an important witness for this passage. The Aramaic language is extremely similar to Hebrew and can even be written with the same Hebrew block letters. Again no vowel markings existed during those early centuries. The Hebrew term in the Peshitta occurs as:
ܡܓܕܘ
m + g + d + w

The very same consonants. The "w" having the sound of a breathy "oo".
 
Earlier, I mentioned that "megiddo" means "place of gathering, meeting or rendezvous". Add in the word "mountain" and the phrase is "the mountain of gathering". There is a very signifant passage in Isaiah that has this exact term.
[Isa 14:12-14 LSB] 12 "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! 13 "But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. 14 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'

Here the term is "har moed"; pronounced "har" + "m" + "oh" + "ae" + "dh"

The word "moed" means "appointed place, time, meeting". It is often used to describe the prescribed times for the Feasts of Yahweh, seven altogether. Three times during the year God required the people of Israel to assemble themselves at Jerusalem for the specific Feasts of Passover/Unleavened Bread, Feast of Weeks, and the Feast of Ingathering/Booths. It is significant that Messiah Jesus fulfilled the purposes of the Passover and Unleavened Bread during His first coming. The Church was initiated at the Feast of Weeks. The fall Feast of Ingathering has had no ultimate fulfillment yet.

This passage in Isaiah is very significant as it addresses the "star of the morning" who fell from heaven and decided to sit on the "mount of assembly" on the "side of the north". This describes the location of Jerusalem and specifically the temple which was located at the very north end of the City of David. As the Enemy desires to take the very place of God in His holy city during the last days.



A psalm also addresses this last battle event, which many do not appreciate.

[Psa 48:1-5 LSB] Great is Yahweh, and greatly to be praised, In the city of our God, His holy mountain. 2 Beautiful in elevation, the joy of the whole earth, Is Mount Zion [in] the far north, The city of the great King. 3 God, in her palaces, Has made Himself known as a stronghold. 4 For, behold, the kings assembled themselves, They passed by together. 5 They saw [it], then they were astonished; They were dismayed, they fled in alarm.

So then how does the term "har moed" connect with "har megiddo"? Although modern Hebrew spells the word using consonants "m" and "d", there is a pronounciation recorded in the Hebrew dictionary that adds a "g".

https://archive.org/details/englishmanshebre0000wigr_u4w2
The Englishman's Hebrew and Chaldee concordance of the Old Testament
Wigram, George

There existed a time when it was pronounced with a gutteral "gh".
"m" + "oh" + "gh" + "ae" + "dh"

The very same consonants as recorded in the Peshitta and in the Greek transliteration. Therefore, this term very well would not be referring to the place of Megiddo in northern Israel at all. It most likely is referring to the "Mount of Assembly" – another term for Jerusalem itself. Where the people of Israel gathered and the location of the throne of God on earth in the temple.

Revelation 16:16 is then shown to match with the rest of Scripture for the location of the final battle of God against the assembled armies of the world.

Being transliterated properly in English as:
"Har moghaedoh"



 
How far is 1600 stadia? It's about 180 miles. What is about 180 miles going east and then south from Jerusalem? The Gulf of Aqaba. What is 180 miles from Megiddo - the commonly assumed location of Armageddon? Absolutely nothing significant.

180_aqaba.png
 
The video link has no audio...

But I think you make some good points about the term Armageddon being a misunderstood location. If Jerusalem the "mount of the congregation" truly is the predicted site for the battle, then this has already taken place back in the AD 70 era. It isn't a threat for us today.
 
The video link has no audio...

But I think you make some good points about the term Armageddon being a misunderstood location. If Jerusalem the "mount of the congregation" truly is the predicted site for the battle, then this has already taken place back in the AD 70 era. It isn't a threat for us today.
It actually does have audio. And no, it has NOT been fulfilled in 70 AD. "All nations" did not gather at Jerusalem as is predicted multiple times through Scripture.
 
It actually does have audio. And no, it has NOT been fulfilled in 70 AD. "All nations" did not gather at Jerusalem as is predicted multiple times through Scripture.
Okay then, apologies, the lack of audio must be on my end of the connection...

As for the "all nations", yes, that did happen in AD 70. Multiple nations were involved in the process of Jerusalem's destruction.
 
Okay then, apologies, the lack of audio must be on my end of the connection...

As for the "all nations", yes, that did happen in AD 70. Multiple nations were involved in the process of Jerusalem's destruction.
"All nations" according to prophecy means: Persia, Magog and Turkey, Assyria, Edom, Moab, Philistia, North Africa, Kings of the East. That did NOT happen in 70 AD.
Also, Jesus did not come back to destroy all the nations which is the ultimate result of that battle.
 
"All nations" according to prophecy means: Persia, Magog and Turkey, Assyria, Edom, Moab, Philistia, North Africa, Kings of the East. That did NOT happen in 70 AD.
Also, Jesus did not come back to destroy all the nations which is the ultimate result of that battle.
You can cross off the "kings of the east" from your list. The text referring to these "kings" in Revelation 16:12 speaks of a way "from the rising of the sun" being prepared for the kings. It's not that they were kings of eastern countries, but that a way was prepared for them to advance on their target from an eastern direction (as in the eastern gate side of Jerusalem).

And the text of Ezekiel 38:5 in the LXX listing the combatants included in Gog's army mentions Persian members, and Ethiopians, and Libyans among them, but not the entire nation of Persia or Ethiopia or Libya. This was an ancient battle, with bucklers, and shields, and with all of them handling swords. This was typical of the Zealot forces back in the first century. The short sicca sword was their weapon of choice. Gog was going to come out of his place in the north parts, which was the north quarter of the land of Israel - namely, Galilee of the Gentiles, which was the breeding ground for Zealot leaders back in the first century. These all ended up converging on the city of Jerusalem during those AD 66-70 years to battle the Roman army and then to battle each other, as Gog was predicted to do, when "every man's word shall be against his brother" (Ezekiel 38:21).
 
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You can cross off the "kings of the east" from your list. The text referring to these "kings" in Revelation 16:12 speaks of a way "from the rising of the sun" being prepared for the kings. It's not that they were kings of eastern countries, but that a way was prepared for them to advance on their target from an eastern direction (as in the eastern gate side of Jerusalem).

And the text of Ezekiel 38:5 in the LXX listing the combatants included in Gog's army mentions Persian members, and Ethiopians, and Libyans among them, but not the entire nation of Persia or Ethiopia or Libya. This was an ancient battle, with bucklers, and shields, and with all of them handling swords. This was typical of the Zealot forces back in the first century. The short sicca sword was their weapon of choice. Gog was going to come out of his place in the north parts, which was the north quarter of the land of Israel - namely, Galilee of the Gentiles, which was the breeding ground for Zealot leaders back in the first century. These all ended up converging on the city of Jerusalem during those AD 66-70 years to battle the Roman army and then to battle each other, as Gog was predicted to do, when "every man's word shall be against his brother" (Ezekiel 38:21).
Your statements do not match with prophecy or history. The "east" in scripture points to the lands past the Euphrates. That was the border of the East. Do a word study of exactly how the term "East" is used throughout Scripture. Scripture does not support a preterist view point.
 
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Your statements do not match with prophecy or history. The "east" in scripture points to the lands past the Euphrates. That was the border of the East. Do a word study of exactly how the term "East" is used throughout Scripture. Scripture does not support a preterist view point.
The way which God prepared for the "kings" to get into Jerusalem from its eastern side was fulfilled in the Idumean attack on Jerusalem in AD 67 / 68. This 6th angel's vial drying up the Euphrates is a duplicate of the time for the 6th angel's trumpet (Rev. 9:14) where the four messengers were first bound at the great river Euphrates, and then loosed from there at a particular time to slay the third part of men in Jerusalem. Already fulfilled long ago, and recorded by Josephus.
 
The way which God prepared for the "kings" to get into Jerusalem from its eastern side was fulfilled in the Idumean attack on Jerusalem in AD 67 / 68. This 6th angel's vial drying up the Euphrates is a duplicate of the time for the 6th angel's trumpet (Rev. 9:14) where the four messengers were first bound at the great river Euphrates, and then loosed from there at a particular time to slay the third part of men in Jerusalem. Already fulfilled long ago, and recorded by Josephus.
Recorded by Josephus? The drying of the Euphrates? You are going to have to provide exact sources for that claim.
Jesus has not come back in 70 AD. That fact alone, torpedoes your assertion.
 
Jesus has not come back in 70 AD. That fact alone, torpedoes your assertion.
Jesus predicted that He would return before some of those He spoke to in that generation had died. He also said that the disciples would not have finished going over the cities of Israel before the Son of Man had come. So either there are 2,000-plus year old disciples and first-century saints are still circulating among us today, or Christ returned in that first-century generation when He said He would.

Recorded by Josephus? The drying of the Euphrates? You are going to have to provide exact sources for that claim.
The entire 6th trumpet judgment was fulfilled under the Idumean attack on Jerusalem in AD 67/68. Josephus documents this event in Wars 4:4-5. You are thinking that John spoke of the literal river Euphrates drying up, and he wasn't saying that. This prediction was a throwback to Cyrus taking the ancient city of Babylon in a single night by diverting the river Euphrates into other channels. This lowered the level of the Euphrates river flowing through the entrance gates of Babylon, allowing Cyrus's army to walk into the city of Babylon under the gates which before had been submerged below the river's surface. Isaiah 45:1-4 had predicted long before that these two leaved gates would not be shut against Cyrus's entrance - that God would break in pieces the gates of brass and cut asunder the bars of iron for him.

Old Jerusalem was given the pejorative title of "Mystery Babylon", "that great city" (where also our Lord was crucified) in Revelation 17 and 18. Just as the river Euphrates was one of the main entrances to the ancient city of Babylon, whose waters receded for Cyrus to take down the Babylonian empire in a single night, Old Jerusalem as Mystery Babylon with its main entrance gates on the east of the city were broken into during a single nighttime invasion of the Idumean army of two myriads under four commanders (Rev. 9:15-16). These four messengers were "bound" at the Euphrates by being denied admittance into the city by the governor, former high priest Ananus and his guards. This enraged the Idumeans who were camped just outside the gates.

Then during the night under cover of the noise from a terrible storm which broke out and an earthquake (Rev. 11:13), the Zealots inside Jerusalem who opposed Ananus's more moderate faction sawed open the city gates to loose the Idumean army into the city (Rev. 9:15). This army then swarmed inside and joined the opposing Zealot factions in slaying those who were part of Ananus' followers in the city. By morning, as a result of the storm and the Idumean raid, 8,500 were dead (Rev. 11:13). That day, two former high priests were murdered (the two witnesses of Rev. 11:3) who had both opposed the Idumeans and denied them entrance to the city. These two men were stripped and left naked in the streets of Jerusalem while their enemies rejoiced and mocked them by standing on top of their dead bodies, forbidding them to be buried (Rev. 11:9-10).

Josephus remarks concerning the murder of these two former high priests that ""I should not mistake if I said that the death of Ananus was the beginning of the destruction of the city, and that from this very day may be dated the overthrow of her wall, and the ruin of her affairs, whereon they saw their high priest, and the procurer of their preservation, slain in the midst of their city." (Wars 4.5.318).

By ridding the city Jerusalem of one of the three factions which had been competing with each other for control over the city, this resulted in one-third of the men of the city being slain (the 7,000 names of men - Rev. 9:15 cp Rev. 11:13). The Idumeans soon learned that they had been deceived by the Zealots into thinking that governor Ananus had intended to surrender Jerusalem over to the Romans again, and they departed, leaving the more radical Zealot factions in control of Jerusalem. A tenth of the city's infrastructure falling was a likely effect of this Idumean attack (Rev. 11:13), but did not yet result in the wholesale destruction of Jerusalem, which came later.
 
Jesus predicted that He would return before some of those He spoke to in that generation had died. He also said that the disciples would not have finished going over the cities of Israel before the Son of Man had come. So either there are 2,000-plus year old disciples and first-century saints are still circulating among us today, or Christ returned in that first-century generation when He said He would.


The entire 6th trumpet judgment was fulfilled under the Idumean attack on Jerusalem in AD 67/68. Josephus documents this event in Wars 4:4-5. You are thinking that John spoke of the literal river Euphrates drying up, and he wasn't saying that. This prediction was a throwback to Cyrus taking the ancient city of Babylon in a single night by diverting the river Euphrates into other channels. This lowered the level of the Euphrates river flowing through the entrance gates of Babylon, allowing Cyrus's army to walk into the city of Babylon under the gates which before had been submerged below the river's surface. Isaiah 45:1-4 had predicted long before that these two leaved gates would not be shut against Cyrus's entrance - that God would break in pieces the gates of brass and cut asunder the bars of iron for him.

Old Jerusalem was given the pejorative title of "Mystery Babylon", "that great city" (where also our Lord was crucified) in Revelation 17 and 18. Just as the river Euphrates was one of the main entrances to the ancient city of Babylon, whose waters receded for Cyrus to take down the Babylonian empire in a single night, Old Jerusalem as Mystery Babylon with its main entrance gates on the east of the city were broken into during a single nighttime invasion of the Idumean army of two myriads under four commanders (Rev. 9:15-16). These four messengers were "bound" at the Euphrates by being denied admittance into the city by the governor, former high priest Ananus and his guards. This enraged the Idumeans who were camped just outside the gates.

Then during the night under cover of the noise from a terrible storm which broke out and an earthquake (Rev. 11:13), the Zealots inside Jerusalem who opposed Ananus's more moderate faction sawed open the city gates to loose the Idumean army into the city (Rev. 9:15). This army then swarmed inside and joined the opposing Zealot factions in slaying those who were part of Ananus' followers in the city. By morning, as a result of the storm and the Idumean raid, 8,500 were dead (Rev. 11:13). That day, two former high priests were murdered (the two witnesses of Rev. 11:3) who had both opposed the Idumeans and denied them entrance to the city. These two men were stripped and left naked in the streets of Jerusalem while their enemies rejoiced and mocked them by standing on top of their dead bodies, forbidding them to be buried (Rev. 11:9-10).

Josephus remarks concerning the murder of these two former high priests that ""I should not mistake if I said that the death of Ananus was the beginning of the destruction of the city, and that from this very day may be dated the overthrow of her wall, and the ruin of her affairs, whereon they saw their high priest, and the procurer of their preservation, slain in the midst of their city." (Wars 4.5.318).

By ridding the city Jerusalem of one of the three factions which had been competing with each other for control over the city, this resulted in one-third of the men of the city being slain (the 7,000 names of men - Rev. 9:15 cp Rev. 11:13). The Idumeans soon learned that they had been deceived by the Zealots into thinking that governor Ananus had intended to surrender Jerusalem over to the Romans again, and they departed, leaving the more radical Zealot factions in control of Jerusalem. A tenth of the city's infrastructure falling was a likely effect of this Idumean attack (Rev. 11:13), but did not yet result in the wholesale destruction of Jerusalem, which came later.
So you can't back up your claims. Noted. Yes, the preterist view can't stand up to Scripture. Kindly take this topic elsewhere. This thread is not about that view.
 
This thread is not about that view.
This thread is about Armageddon, and your proposal that this name is misunderstood. I agree with that. And I agree with you that it probably refers to the site of the city of Jerusalem instead. But contrary to your viewpoint, scripture describes it as an ancient conflict with antiquated weaponry using horses and horsemen, shields, helmets, handstaves, spears, bucklers, bows and arrows, and swords. If you are going to be literal, (which is frequently emphasized on the part of premil-disp adherents), then this antiquated weaponry and armaments for the Gog combatants dates this battle to ancient times - definitely not our future at all.
 
Part II of the Battle Plan of Armageddon. Old Testament and New Testament passages woven together to reveal the series of events that mark the beginning of the Day of Yahweh.

 
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