THE MASSIVE GRAND CANYON—IT'S GENESES

[Arial]

I don't think so. You can perceive that there is a God of creation, but beyond that you cannot really know much at all about God. You can't know about Jesus, about the Holy Spirit, about man being in the image of God, about sinning and needing salvation, etc., etc.

No one said you can know about Jesus or the Holy Spirit or the way of salvation by observing the creation. That changes the subject or adds something to it that doesn't belong. But in Romans 1 it tells us that we know of sin by knowing of his judgment, and that he is our maker and the maker of all things. It says we suppressed these things and went after other things.

 

[Alive]

Do you think he has disassociated himself from the trees? Or from any aspect of his creation?

This comes to mind…
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.”


(Colossians 1:15-17 NAS20)


https://accordance.bible/link/read/NAS20S#Col._1:15

 

[Arial]

The study of science will not teach you about God. As Romans 1 says, there is enough about creation to persuade us that there is a God. But it takes the written revelation of God to teach us about God.

Go read More Than Meets the Eye by Richard A. Swenson, M.D. and then come back and say that. That really is a book that should be read if you want a glimpse into the intricacies and unfathomable knowledge and astonishing systems God placed in his creation. It is stunning. And he is a scientist.

 

[Arial]

This comes to mind…
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.”


(Colossians 1:15-17 NAS20)


https://accordance.bible/link/read/NAS20S#Col._1:15

If he didn't hold them together for one millisecond they would fly apart and vanish.

 

[Arial]

Have you ever studied anything in a field of science? What precisely did you learn about God from that study?

That he is mind blowingly perfect, and wise, and powerful, intricate and multifaceted, and so beyond our imagination and comprehension and to be worshiped and feared. I remember laying out in the desert one night, far from any light source, and looking up at the sky. It was too big, too incomprehensible, too wonderful, too vast. I felt if I didn't stop looking into those depths I would disappear. And that is but the tip of the iceberg. And I was not even a Christian at the time.

 

[Alive]

If he didn't hold them together for one millisecond they would fly apart and vanish.

I have something to share about this. Maybe tomorrow.
Wife is home and it’s Prince Spaghetti Day.

 

[Arial]

I have something to share about this. Maybe tomorrow.
Wife is home and it’s Prince Spaghetti Day.

Yum yum.
Look forward to what you have to share.

I just had black raspberry chocolate with dark chocolate chips ice cream! For the evening snack.

 

[makesends]

Science doesn't say a dead person can't rise from the grave on day 3.

Well, no. What 'science' does say is that dead people never rise from the dead on day 3.

 

[makesends]

The study of science will not teach you about God. As Romans 1 says, there is enough about creation to persuade us that there is a God. But it takes the written revelation of God to teach us about God.

All of life teaches about God. Separate from God, nothing even exists!

 

[JIM]

Do you think he has disassociated himself from the trees? Or from any aspect of his creation?

Why would I think that? The fact that he has not disassociated Himself from the trees doesn't mean that He is continually manipulating every aspect of the tree.

 

[JIM]

Well, no. What 'science' does say is that dead people never rise from the dead on day 3.

No 'science' does not say that at all. Science does not and cannot address the miraculous. At best it can only seek out a natural means for it to have happened. And even today, science has no such answer.

 

[JIM]

That he is mind blowingly perfect, and wise, and powerful, intricate and multifaceted, and so beyond our imagination and comprehension and to be worshiped and feared. I remember laying out in the desert one night, far from any light source, and looking up at the sky. It was too big, too incomprehensible, too wonderful, too vast. I felt if I didn't stop looking into those depths I would disappear. And that is but the tip of the iceberg. And I was not even a Christian at the time.

It caused you to wonder about all such great things, but it didn't really give you any answers.

 

[JIM]

All of life teaches about God. Separate from God, nothing even exists!

If that were indeed true, then it would not be only Christians who know about God, who He is and what His relationship with the world really is. But in fact none of the other 'great' religions actually know that. And that is the reason for the Great Commision and Paul's discussion in Romans 10.

 

[ShepherdsPie]

If that were indeed true, then it would not be only Christians who know about God, who He is and what His relationship with the world really is. But in fact none of the other 'great' religions actually know that. And that is the reason for the Great Commision and Paul's discussion in Romans 10.

Yes, only Christians/the Elect understand the things of God. We have the Word of God and we study it to know all the things that God has written to us and to learn His ways—“It is written.” … and we share and we warn others and we pray, especially in these latter days.

Blessings like the latter rain —Pie

 

[makesends]

No 'science' does not say that at all. Science does not and cannot address the miraculous. At best it can only seek out a natural means for it to have happened. And even today, science has no such answer.

I put scare quotes around 'science', meaning the scientific community's representation of science. They pooh-pooh the miraculous all day long, not even thinking long enough on the question of existence to realize that existence itself is miraculous, since God did it.

 

[makesends]

If that were indeed true, then it would not be only Christians who know about God, who He is and what His relationship with the world really is. But in fact none of the other 'great' religions actually know that. And that is the reason for the Great Commision and Paul's discussion in Romans 10.

What does the great commission etc you refer to here have to do with the subject at hand?

But, Romans 1, which you have referred to here, purportedly in support of your point(s), also says that the unregenerate DID know him.

 

[JIM]

I put scare quotes around 'science', meaning the scientific community's representation of science. They pooh-pooh the miraculous all day long, not even thinking long enough on the question of existence to realize that existence itself is miraculous, since God did it.

I know that there are scientists that 'pooh-pooh' the miraculous; but that is not science. That is their own personal philosophy having nothing to do with science.

 

[JIM]

What does the great commission etc you refer to here have to do with the subject at hand?

The great commission is a statement of how disciples are made.

But, Romans 1, which you have referred to here, purportedly in support of your point(s), also says that the unregenerate DID know him.

They know God as creator, but they have no basis to know any more than that.

 

[makesends]

I know that there are scientists that 'pooh-pooh' the miraculous; but that is not science. That is their own personal philosophy having nothing to do with science.

Yes, of course. I said as much. THAT is the reason for the scare quotes around the word, 'science' —I did not direct the comment toward [true] science.

 

[makesends]

makesends had said:
All of life teaches about God. Separate from God, nothing even exists!

—to which JIM responded:
"If that were indeed true, then it would not be only Christians who know about God, who He is and what His relationship with the world really is. But in fact none of the other 'great' religions actually know that. And that is the reason for the Great Commision and Paul's discussion in Romans 10."

—so makesends said:
What does the great commission etc you refer to here have to do with the subject at hand?

The great commission is a statement of how disciples are made.

Oh. Ok, I guess I see how your thinking went. Since, (you assume), no unbeliever can know anything more about God than a simple guess as to CREATOR, everything else has to be taught them? For what it is worth, (whether you do or not), I think the gospel includes all fact, esp concerning God, and is beyond any of us to fully grasp it. That's why valid faith cannot be self-generated.

makesends had said:
All of life teaches about God. Separate from God, nothing even exists!

JIM had said:
"If that were indeed true, then it would not be only Christians who know about God, who He is and what His relationship with the world really is. But in fact none of the other 'great' religions actually know that."

makesends said:
But, Romans 1, which you have referred to here, purportedly in support of your point(s), also says that the unregenerate DID know him.

They know God as creator, but they have no basis to know any more than that.

So, your first point is invalidated: They do (or did, before rejecting the knowledge) know about God.

Second and third point, "would...know about...who He is and what His relationship with the world really is." (my emphasis): That is the very reason they reject knowledge that is [not only] intuitive, from the fact of existence and nature, [but also it is logical] —they mostly won't even let it into the forefront of their thinking, that to admit to the fact of Creator, implies the existence of Omnipotence, Ownership of all things to include each person's life; Intimate Knowledge of every thought, intent and deed; Purpose in creating which is not the purpose each person would prefer; Owed Submission and Gratefulness of each created being toward God; God being the very definition of Purity, and The Moral Duty of each person and the supernatural source of conscience. There's quite a lot to know about God from nature, besides the list @Arial gave you too!