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The last hour

God never wanted the temple of stone.
That is NOT what God said in Haggai 1:7-8. God was actually REPROVING the people for having neglected to finish His house. "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Consider your ways. Go up to the mountain, and bring wood, and build the house; and I will take pleasure in it, and I will be glorified, saith the Lord."

God told the people in Haggai 2:9 (LXX) "In this place will I give peace, saith the Lord Almighty, even peace of soul for a possession to everyone that builds, to raise up this temple." Though the glory of Solomon's temple was called "great", the glory of that latter temple would exceed the former, because the incarnate Son of God would be standing in that temple in years to come.

I read that in the same manner as @3 Resurrections' belief the last hour is a reference to Satan's short time.
Satan's "short time" that was coming to an end was not the only thing wrapping up in that "last hour". As I already mentioned above, Israel's "last state" and "latter end" as the "holy people" was ending at the same time. As a matter of fact, the gift of tongues was also ending, as well as prophecy which was also going to vanish away. God was then shaking not only the earth, but also the heavens, to remove everything that could not withstand that shaking process. This is why 1 John 2:17 said "the world is passing away, and the lusts thereof." God's "shaking" was already in progress as 1 John was being written.
 
That is NOT what God said in Haggai 1:7-8. God was actually REPROVING the people for having neglected to finish His house. "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Consider your ways. Go up to the mountain, and bring wood, and build the house; and I will take pleasure in it, and I will be glorified, saith the Lord."
What makes you think he was talking about the temple of stone?

God does not dwell in houses built by human hands.
God told the people in Haggai 2:9 (LXX) "In this place will I give peace, saith the Lord Almighty, even peace of soul for a possession to everyone that builds, to raise up this temple." Though the glory of Solomon's temple was called "great", the glory of that latter temple would exceed the former, because the incarnate Son of God would be standing in that temple in years to come.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with God never asking for the temple of stone to be built and the fact God does not dwell in houses made by human hands. Haggai 2 is being used as a red herring and being rendered in absence of what the NT states about this OT text. God never wanted the monarchy, either, but once it was established (in disobedience) He worked with it, just as He has always done when His people settle for second best, their will and not God's. As I previously posted, God couches His work in the covenant promises (see Haggai 2:5), and God concludes His revelation with, "The latter glory of this house will be greater than the former,’ says the LORD of hosts, ‘and in this place I will give peace,’ declares the LORD of hosts.”

In that place Christ was crucified and the temple God always intended to be built was raised.

Haggai 2 is messianic.
Satan's "short time" that was coming to an end was not the only thing wrapping up in that "last hour".
And what did I say about that?
As I already mentioned above....
Yes, so stop repeating yourself and address the point I made about measuring the last hour by the work of Satan and not the work of God.
, Israel's "last state" and "latter end" as the "holy people" was ending at the same time.
Bloodline Israel was never God's holy people beyond the mere fact of physical separation. Those who believe in Jesus, the temple of God that God built, are God's holy nation.

1 Peter 2:4-9 (excerpted)
And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For this is contained in Scripture: "Behold, I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, and he who believes in him will not be disappointed..... But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

Hebrews 11:39-40
And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

All those OT individuals mentioned in Hebrews 11 looked forward to Christ, not a brick building. They are made perfect in "us," those to whom God spoke in the last days (Heb. 1:2), those who will inherit salvation (Heb. 1:14). The reason the temple was destroyed - every occasion when the temple was destroyed - it was because God never wanted a temple of stone, God does not dwell in temples made by human hands, the temple itself was an abomination, and the Jews building a temple was an act of fleshly disobedience. Peter and the author of Hebrews are referencing several OT sources. Haggai should not be read as something that exists apart from, or contrary to, God's Christological purpose in creation. The only temple God ever had in mind was the one He would build by His own hands.

2 Samuel 7:5-7
Go and say to My servant David, ‘Thus says the LORD, “Are you the one who should build Me a house to dwell in? For I have not dwelt in a house since the day I brought up the sons of Israel from Egypt, even to this day; but I have been moving about in a tent, even in a tabernacle. Wherever I have gone with all the sons of Israel, did I speak a word with one of the tribes of Israel, which I commanded to shepherd My people Israel, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’”’

Was David the one who would build a house in which God would dwell? When did God ever ask, "Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?" The answer to both those questions is "No!"


2 Samuel 7:11
The LORD also declares to you that the LORD will make a house for you.

It does not get more explicit than that. God told David He, God, would build the house AND that house would be for His people. David had it backwards. David wanted to build a house for God but God does not need such a house, or want such a house, and he explicitly stated He does not dwell in houses built by human hands. The entire account of David's desire to build God a house is a record of how far David was slipping into fleshly works. God loved David in spite of it.



The word "Israel" means "God perseveres." God first used the word "Israel," in reference to Jacob, the man who'd wrestled with God, the man who God broke in order for the man to be useful, the man God loved before he was even born. His progeny - those who trusted God's covenant promises - became known as the "sons of Israel" and, later, the "house of Israel." Look it up in your Bible and verify what I just wrote. Very few mentions of "Israel" have anything to do with the bloodline, geo-political nation-state called "Israel." The name "Israel" is used only three times in Revelation and not one of them refers to the geo-political nation-state Israel. When the Jews protested Jesus and his teachings by appealing to their bloodline they were told God can makes sons of Abraham out of rocks. The phrase "nation of Israel," appears very late in the chronology of God's use of that name and even that phrase is often a reference to the holy nation God promised, the nation of priests.

Which is why I couched the last hour in the covenant promises, and not Satan or the works of sinful Jewish flesh.
As a matter of fact, the gift of tongues....
More Dispensationalist-like subject changing that avoids the point of discussion.


Why define the last hour by Satan or the works of sinful Jewish flesh? Why not define God's metric by God's work, God's purpose(s), and/or God's promises?

This is all that is being asked of you. This is important because this gets to the presuppositions of your position. No one starting with flawed assumptions is going to reach a sound conclusion. Here's an example of what I am taking about, what I am asking about. I have a study Bible that reports Romans 12:20 is a reference to an Egyptian shaming ritual in which a person would throw ashes upon their head, covering themselves in ash to demonstrate their shame. That's what is reported in the footnote for that verse! There's no mention of Proverbs 25:21-22, or Matthew 5's Sermon on the Mount, or even Psalm 140:10! In other words, the authors of this (well-known) study Bible abjectly failed to provide any exegesis, exposition of the Judeo-Christian cultural practices and, rather than seek out God's word defining God's word, the authors appealed to a pagan ritual to explain Paul's commentary! You have at least (commendably) used God's word to define God's word but you're appealing to the adversary to define God's word and I think that is a presuppositional mistake (especially since the covenantal promises are a much better alternative.

So.....


Tell me why defining John's "last hour," - the last hour God inspired John to label that way - should be defined by what Satan was doing, and not God.
 
What makes you think he was talking about the temple of stone?
Because that was what was being constructed in that post-exilic return by God's command. God gave the "blueprints" for that post-exilic temple and its operations in Ezekiel 40-47, calling it "MY house" and "MY holy things". Zerubbabel's foundation stone having those "seven eyes" of the Lord in it showed His oversight approval and instigation of that plan. Ezra 6:14-15 tells us that "...the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia. And this house was finished on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king." God commanded the building of that stone temple, and the people obeyed and finished it per that command.

In that place Christ was crucified and the temple God always intended to be built was raised.
Of course Christ being the foundation of the spiritual temple was always intended to be the ultimate temple made of "living stones". But God always starts with the natural type first, which symbolizes in physical form what the ultimate spiritual antitype fulfillment is to be. God grows us to maturity in stages. "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual". (1 Cor. 15:46)

Bloodline Israel was never God's holy people beyond the mere fact of physical separation. Those who believe in Jesus, the temple of God that God built, are God's holy nation.
God used the ethnic nation of Israel as a natural, physical type to picture the spiritual antitype of the "Israel of God" - the "mystery" of the "one body" of Jews and Gentiles which was hid from ages past, but was revealed to the Apostles. God deliberately titled the ethnic nation of Israel "the holy people" back in the OT (not that they were ever known for living up to that title, just as we today are not known ourselves for living up to the title of the "holy nation").

In the "last state" of the ethnic nation of Israel, the power of the "holy people" was shattered in AD 70 (Dan. 12:7). This was just part of all the "weak and beggarly elements" which were being dissolved at that point, to make manifest the spiritual things which could NOT be shaken or removed.
Tell me why defining John's "last hour," - the last hour God inspired John to label that way - should be defined by what Satan was doing, and not God.
Because it WAS God's actions to use Satan's "short time" of release at the end of the millennium in AD 33 to send that "strong delusion" among the nations of the world. Those who until then had rejected the Truth and were having pleasure in unrighteousness were looking for a lie to believe in. God merely gave them what they wanted by using Satan's "short time" of deceiving the nations to accomplish this in 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12.

An enraged Satan at the end of the millennium (in AD 33) went out to once more for that "short time" to deceive the nations in the four quarters of the earth (the four quarters of the land of Israel - Ezekiel 7:2). Satan's devils in Rev. 16:14 deceived both the "kings of the earth" (the high priests) and also the "kings...of the whole habitable world" (such as the Gentile nations' rulers). All of these were convinced by Satan's lies to gather together to do battle for and against Jerusalem. They all had their own selfish, deceived motives for doing this, but GOD had His own motives for allowing this deception to prevail. He used Satan's "strong delusion" to shake not only the earth, but also the heavens, so that He could REMOVE all those temporal things, leaving only the unshaken spiritual realities in place (as in Hebrews 12:26-27).

One of those things that was REMOVED in AD 70 was the entire Satanic realm. The city of Jerusalem was the "Lake of Fire" location which had been "prepared for the devil and his angels". These demonic hosts were ALL imprisoned within the walls of Jerusalem during the AD 66-70 conflict (Is. 24:21-23 and Rev. 18:2). The city became "the habitation of devils, and a prison for EVERY unclean spirit...". Christ Jesus had predicted in Matthew 12:43-45 that this would happen during the "last state" of His own wicked generation. The unclean spirits would return in complete seven-fold numbers to possess the people in their "last state", which Deut. 32 called "their latter end", and which Ezekiel's Gog prophecy timed to occur "at the end of years" (Ez. 38:8 - LXX).

That "Gog" battle in Jerusalem, where all the deceived combatants converged, was a battle when "every man's sword shall be against his brother." (Ez. 38:21). This was CIVIL WAR that took place in Jerusalem led by "Gog the chief prince" (Ez. 38:1 cp Rev. 20:8-10.)

So, here inside the besieged city of Jerusalem, the demon-possessed inhabitants of Israel were doing battle with their fellow-Israelites, with each of those "antichrists" trying to gain the supreme Messiah leadership role in Jerusalem. This was Satan's kingdom "divided against itself". We remember what Christ said about this in Mark 3:24-26: "And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, t hat house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against hImself, and be divided, he cannot stand, BUT HATH AN END."

Many things in both the earth and the heavens were shaken and REMOVED by our multi-tasking God in that "last hour" of 1 John 2:18.
•The ethnic nation of Israel was shattered in their "last hour" during their "last state" and "latter end".
•The "weak and beggarly elements" of the dead, obsolete temple structure were being burned up in that "last hour".
•The genealogical records of the ethnic Israelite tribes were burned up when the archives were turned to ashes.
•The wicked dead were all destroyed in that "resurrection to destruction" in AD 70 at Christ's second coming return.
•The members of the temple priesthood system that were vainly trying to keep operating were destroyed.
•The Scarlet Beast of an independent kingdom of Israel which was revived in the AD 66 rebellion also went into destruction.
•And last, but not least, the entire Satanic realm which had plagued humanity since the Fall was judged and destroyed to ashes, so that they would exist no more after "the ends of the ages" in which they had been operating until then.
 
Because that was what was being constructed in that post-exilic return by God's command.
That is incorrect. God's action related to the temple was raising up His Son and His Son's body of believers.
Because it WAS God's actions to use Satan's "short time" of release at the end of the millennium in AD 33 to send that "strong delusion" among the nations of the world.
Then give God the glory and not Satan. The last hour is God's, not Satan's. God is the Creator of time. It is God who decides who lives when and where and everything about Satan's existence was decided before he existed, including the amount of time he exists. His fate was decided without God ever asking him if he wanted any of it. The guy is a minion.
Many things in both the earth and the heavens were shaken and REMOVED by our multi-tasking God in that "last hour" of 1 John 2:18.
All of which fall under the category of God's works, not Satan's.
 
Then give God the glory and not Satan.
LOL, really Josheb. Where do you see me "giving glory to Satan"?? Satan, as you're also agreeing, was merely a "minion" and a tool. He was being used by God in that "last hour" to punish His enemies. Exactly as any other pagan empire or ruler was used like a "saw" or an "ax" being shaken by God Himself to accomplish His own sovereign purposes of judgment.

God Himself has no "last hour". This "last hour" was a time limitation put upon the creatures and created things made by the eternal God.

That is incorrect. God's action related to the temple was raising up His Son and His Son's body of believer
It is not incorrect. God raised up His Son and the body of believers as being the antitype spiritual temple not made with hands as the fulfillment of the former physical type. Moving from the lesser to the greater. The Scriptures said that God gave the commandment for that temple to be built in the post-exilic return, and this was finished in obedience to God's command. "Weak and beggarly" though it was, God was going to fill it with more glory than Solomon's temple. The incarnate Christ was presented in that temple as a newborn. As a youth, Christ again was in the temple, astounding the priests with His questions and answers. As an adult, He again went to that temple, calling it "MY FATHER"S house", which had been corrupted by being turned into a "den of thieves". And the glorified, resurrected 144,000 First-fruits Matthew 27:52-53 saints went to the Mount Zion location of the temple in Jerusalem and were seen of many there.

Zerubbabel's hands both started and finished that post-exilic temple. Both genealogical lines of Mary and Joseph met in this one shared ancestor. Zerubbabel was called a "signet", chosen by God for that precise task of beginning and completing that post-exilic temple in the midst of the millennium years. And God said His spirit had remained among the people as they were completing that temple's construction, which he said He would take pleasure in (Haggai 1:8 and 2:4-5).
 
LOL, really Josheb. Where do you see me "giving glory to Satan"??
I have already answered that question. Was the answer provided missed? Not adequately understood? Willfully ignored? Did the conversation just take a turn into fruitlessness?
 
I have already answered that question. Was the answer provided missed? Not adequately understood? Willfully ignored? Did the conversation just take a turn into fruitlessness?
No, it's probably something much simpler than that. I'm stretched pretty thin right now with a lot on my plate. Probably I just don't have enough band-width right now to catch all the permutations of the case you are making. Plus the fact that nobody can actually get inside the skull of another person to completely comprehend their points. Each of us is a unique creature in that regard - thank the good Lord. God loves variety.
 
No, it's probably something much simpler than that. I'm stretched pretty thin right now with a lot on my plate. Probably I just don't have enough band-width right now to catch all the permutations of the case you are making. Plus the fact that nobody can actually get inside the skull of another person to completely comprehend their points. Each of us is a unique creature in that regard - thank the good Lord. God loves variety.
Sure. No worries. That's a commendable response.

What I am/was trying to get at is presuppositional. Do we explain scripture Theo-centrically, demon-centrically, or ego-centrically? When the question is worded that way the answer is obvious but, practically speaking, the egocentric answer happens a lot, and the Satan-framed answer is also common practice. This happens despite our consciously knowing better. The answer to "Last hour of what?" can/should be answered in the context of what the original audience was looking forward to, what their hope was, what in those two regards were they expecting. Were they looking forward to the return of Christ wit hope, or were they looking forward to Satan doing one last trick with hope (before Christ returned)? God putting an end to Satan's final machinations is notable, but it serves a purpose, a divine purpose to which Satan is adversarial. He's not the definition of the last hour. God is. The Theo-centric answer is what has integrity with whole scripture.

When we do not examine the assumptions, the suppositions we're not aware we're asserting the result is invariably misguided or ill informed, and usually internal conflict (not conflicts with our viewpoint contrasting with another's, but contradiction between one set of beliefs and another held by the same individual.

Besides, since the entirety of scripture is first and foremost about Jesus (not humanity or Satan) we're always going to have veracity and efficacy with the Christological answers.
 
Besides, since the entirety of scripture is first and foremost about Jesus (not humanity or Satan) we're always going to have veracity and efficacy with the Christological answers.
It sure is Christological. "...the testimony of JESUS is the spirit of prophecy." (Rev. 19:10). He is the hub of the wheel around which all prophecy has ever circled. That is why we see Christ wearing those "MANY crowns" in Rev. 19:12. Satan had once boasted to Christ in Luke 4:5-6 that he had been given the power and the glory of all the kingdoms of this world, and to whomsoever he wished, he would give it. But here in Rev. 19:12, we see CHRIST wearing all those "MANY crowns" of the kingdoms of this world. At that point, Satan and his entire demonic realm had been destroyed, and it was being manifested openly that CHRIST was the One who really had control over all the kingdoms of the world, as the King of Kings and Lord of lords.
 
It sure is Christological.
Then suggest, and recommend, starting answers to questions, like the one answered in this op, Theo-centrically. It can be challenging, especially when so many Christians in modernity are inordinately concerned with bad things happening and the latest fear mongering.
 
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