The false doctrine of perfectionism

[Ghada]

Many would think that it's the righteous that preach perfectionism, but in fact it's the unrighteous that do so, in order to justify still doing unrighteousness as 'saved' Christians.

"Who are you to judge?? Are you living a perfectly sinless life??"

This is the common refrain of unrepented sinners, that resent being taught that God judges our works, and not just what we believe about God and ourselves.

It's first meant to imply that anyone judging us by our works, has no right without being perfectly sinless. Well, Jesus was, and He is the one preaching being perfect and holy toward God.

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

However, the more devious reason for unrepented sinners preaching perfectionism, is to justify continued works of the flesh as just more 'imperfections' of an 'imperfect' people: I.e. sinful works of the flesh are just 'mistakes' of the imperfect.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is not in fact one of perfectionism. The perfection of God in heaven, is not what Jesus was doing on earth, nor what He conforms us to do today.

The perfectionism of God in heaven is to not even be tempted to sin, much less to sin. But being perfect in Christ Jesus is simply having a whole pure heart toward God, so that like Jesus we are certainly tempted, yet without sinning.

The gospel of perfectionism is not in this life, but in the resurrection unto life, when the souls of the righteous are perfected as Jesus Himself now is on the throne.

By teaching a doctrine of perfectionism in this life, the unrighteous seek to judge their sinning as mere imperfections or mistakes of the imperfect.

I.e. doing righteousness at all times is called perfectionism, so that doing unrighteousness at any time is just being 'imperfect'.

By raising the bar above the earth into heaven, the unrepented sinners make anything below that bar justified, since no man is living perfection. However, that would also mean Jesus was not justified on earth.

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

No temptation at all is perfectionism of heaven. Not sinning by temptation is not perfectionism on earth.

Repenting for Jesus' sake to do His righteousness at all times, is simply having a perfect heart toward God, walking blamelessly as Jesus walked in the flesh.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Josheb]

Many would think that it's the righteous that preach perfectionism, but in fact it's the unrighteous that do so, in order to justify still doing unrighteousness as 'saved' Christians.

I'm glad to read you say that. If you truly do not believe perfectionism is righteous preaching then why did you not answer my question(s) unequivocally with an unqualified, "No!" in the "Romans 7: Now vs Before" thread? Why have I had to endure accusations and delays when the question could have and should have been answered and then Paul's before and after been addressed accordingly?

 

[Ghada]

I'm glad to read you say that. If you truly do not believe perfectionism is righteous preaching

The perfectionism you speak of in heaven, is not the perfecting of the saints on earth.

The resurrected man Christ Jesus on the throne cannot be tempted anymore, even as God in heaven never has been tempted.

Our example is the man Jesus being tempted in all points without sinning. We now grow in Christ by learning to obey through all temptation as He, without falling.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

This is going onto perfection with a whole heart and life toward God, that you reject.

Only after the resurrection of the obedient saints in Jesus' likeness, will they also be freed from all temptation, with no more enduring fight against trespassing.

This is the second time I've corrected your guided questioning. When you address it, then we can continue.

Paul's before and after been addressed accordingly?

You'll still believe in your unrepented double hearted apostle, that you love to follow after.

 

[Fred]

You'll still believe in your unrepented double hearted apostle, that you love to follow after.

The above comment is a tragedy.

 

[Josheb]

The perfectionism you speak of in heaven, is not the perfecting of the saints on earth.

Yep.

The resurrected man Christ Jesus on the throne cannot be tempted anymore, even as God in heaven never has been tempted.

He couldn't be tempted on earth, either.

Our example is the man Jesus being tempted in all points without sinning.

being exposed to otherwise tempting stimuli does not mean Jesus possessed any untoward desires or lusts by which he might have been enticed and dragged away (Jms. 1:14).

You'll still believe in your unrepented double hearted apostle, that you love to follow after.

And you still cannot make a case for what you believe without attacking others. It is a sign of your own imperfection that disqualifies you from having anything to teach about perfection. It's also very said because you and I agree perfection is not possible on this side of the grave but you refuse to walk through scripture as written and build from that consensus.

You'll still believe in your unrepented double hearted apostle, that you love to follow after.

That's a nice ad hominem but ad hominems are always and everywhere fallacious and, therefore, a sign of the flesh, not the Spirit. The Holy Spirit never employs fallacy so let me encourage and exhort you to learn how to make the case for what you believe without attacking others. Keep the posts about the posts and not the posters.

I'll come back to the thread when I read something without personally derisive content.

 

[Ghada]

The above comment is a tragedy.

I know. When we have Jesus and His apostles to follow, why would someone rather follow a greatly sinful apostle instead?

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

As they say, it's just the nature of the beast.

 

[Fred]

I know. When we have Jesus and His apostles to follow, why would someone rather follow a greatly sinful apostle instead?

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

As they say, it's just the nature of the beast.

In that you reject Paul, you reject Jesus.
Peter doesn't agree with your confusion (2 Peter 3:15-16).

 

[Ghada]

He couldn't be tempted on earth, either.

The christ-creators refuse the man Jesus was the Word and Son of God in the flesh, because they say their God can never be tempted either.

being exposed to otherwise tempting stimuli does not mean Jesus possessed any untoward desires or lusts by which he might have been enticed and dragged away (Jms. 1:14).

Great, a new twist. Thanks. Jesus was not tempted like other men.

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Perhaps it's time to go back to my recording of your stuff, and repost your open opposition to the Bible. (Trying to repost all your twistings of Scripture would take way too much time. Though, I could limit it to your basic one's repeated several times...)

'Stimuli'. Sounds like lab rat theology.

And you still cannot make a case for what you believe without attacking others.

If you don't like being called an unrepeneted sinner, then don't keep proclaiming it every chance you get.

And if you don't want God to judge you as one, then just repent already, and quit playing the doctrine game.

No one's doctrine card will even be played from the grave, much less honored by the righteous Judge of all men's works.

It is a sign of your own imperfection

So far as not being God in heaven, I confess. But your judgment signs mean nothing to me. Afterall, you are an unrepented sinner, so how can you judge anything righteously?

Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

that disqualifies you from having anything to teach about perfection.

That's the beauty of Bible revelation from God. No one has to be God to know the difference between untempted God in heaven, and the tempted Son on earth.

That means any reader can teach anything openly written in the Bible. And if we just repeat what God says, then we can teach it accurately.

It's as simple to teach the Bible, as it is to repent for Jesus' sake.

For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

because you and I agree perfection is not possible on this side of the grave

So far, you have said we agree on several things, and not one of them is true. You keep trying to slip in your version of things. You're too obvious.

God's perfection in heaven is not possible nor commanded in this life, including the Son. However, the Son's own perfecting by obedience to the Father at all times, is commanded to every one of His newborn sons and brethren in the Spirit.

Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

That's a nice ad hominem

Thank you. But really you get all the credt. It's your favorite double-hearted apostle, that is sinning worse than everyone else, not mine.

therefore, a sign of the flesh, not the Spirit.

It took a while, but you've finally arrived at accusing others of sinning by disagreeing with you.

so let me encourage and exhort you to learn how to make the case for what you believe without attacking others. Keep the posts about the posts and not the posters.

The personal agenda of a person has everything to do with what the person argues, especially when it's all about themselves.

You preach your gospel of being justified as an unrepented ongoing sinner. It makes perfect sense when you openly declare yourself an unrepented ongoing sinning. Especially when you do so every chance you get.

That alone doesn't nullify your gospel. However, that enlightens others as to why you must corrupt Scripture at every opportunity, in order to preach your own gospel while naming Christ.

I'll come back to the thread when I read something without personally derisive content.

Unless you have something new for me, like your science-lab stimuli thjeology, don't bother.

After all, if you want to declare yourself an unrepented ongoing sinner ad-nauseum, but forbid others to agree with you, then that doesn't work for me.

I've seen this kind of split-personality stuff before. You can talk all you want about what an unrepented sinner against God you are, but others can't. I believe it's because you look for agreeable sympathy, rather than sharp rebuke.

This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to commandments of men.

That must be why you feel really humble when you do it, but derisively exposed when others rebuke it.

 

[Arial]

However, the Son's own perfecting by obedience to the Father at all times, is commanded to every one of His newborn sons and brethren in the Spirit.

Actually it is commanded of everyone of all time, all the way back to Adam and Eve and every person born since and everyone that is yet to be born.

 

[Arial]

You'll still believe in your unrepented double hearted apostle, that you love to follow after.

In saying this you make the Bible not the word of God, and totally untrustworthy in anything it says. And yet you quote it and Paul to back up all your arguments. That would be the very definition of a man's traditions establishing doctrine and supreme evidence of what is known as cherry picking to do so.

 

[Ghada]

In that you reject Paul, you reject Jesus.

True, since Paul the apostle writes by the Spirit of Christ, then we believe the Lord by His prophets and apostles.

But if your apostle called 'Paul' is a double hearted sinner of the worst sort, then I reject your 'Paul', his 'Christ', and you following him into sin.

People are free to make up whatever apostle and christ they wish for themselves, and there are many indeed come in the name of Christ, but that doesn't mean believers in the Christ Jesus and apostles of the Bible, have to respect it, much less agree with it.

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies.

What other greater heresy than falsely accusing Christ's apostles of being the chiefest unrighteous hypocrites, just to justify one's own unrepented and hardened heart?

But, they did the same with Jesus, and so they do with His aposltes.

And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

No worker of iniquity is servant of the Master Jesus Christ. Here are the only apostles, that are of the Lord Jesus Christ to follow:

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever

Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

The only master and christ of the unrighteous, that justify thesmelves by their doctrine, is the false christ of the god of this world:

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

What greater false christ is there, than the one that sends his apostles to teach being double minded for life, and the greatest of sinners, as well as declaring it impossible to walk as Jesus walked in temptations, but without sinning?

Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls:

 

[Fred]

True, since Paul the apostle writes by the Spirit of Christ, then we believe the Lord by His prophets and apostles.

But if your apostle called 'Paul' is a double hearted sinner of the worst sort, then I reject your 'Paul', his 'Christ', and you following him into sin.

The two sentences above do not agree with one another.

Your thinking is chaotic.

 

[Ghada]

Actually it is commanded of everyone of all time, all the way back to Adam and Eve and every person born since and everyone that is yet to be born.

This is true to a degree, but after any man sins, he is commanded to repent first.

Otherwise, it will just be another vain religion of unrepented sinners. Sinful man can seek to be more righteous and godly than before, and even sin than before, but never going to sin no more in the pure relgion of Jesus Christ.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is touching him not.

We first repent of our sinning tresspasses, in order to be made clean from the world by the blood of the Lamb of God, and then we keep ourselves unspotted and pure from the world, by the Spirit and power of the Son.

Without repenting first, it's just man's vain search to keep themselves less sinful than the world. Half-hearted repentance is man's own will and and fruitless power to make himself more presentable to God.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Those who repent from sinning for Jesus sake, recieve the Son. Those who keep His faith to obey Him, are kept from sinning by the power of God.

 

[Ghada]

The two sentences above do not agree with one another.

True. The apostle Paul of the Bible, is not the double hearted worst of sinners, that unrepented self-justifiers preach and follow.

Your thinking is chaotic.

No. The thinking and purpose of unrepented self-justifying sinners try to make things chaotic, and so turn the apsotles of the Bible upside down:

But we have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully.

My thinking and purpose is to rewind the chaos of such unrighteous decievers, and turn the Bible back to rightside up.

For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Do you not believe the Bible, that there are false apostles of Christ? Do you not understand any apostle that is double minded for life, and the chiefest of sinners, must be a false apostle of a sinful master other than Jesus Christ?

Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from doing iniquity.

For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in unrighteousness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The unrighteous shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

This judgment and condemnation against all doers of unrighteousness and iniquity applies to all, both small and great. Much more so the prophets and apostles of the righteous Lord and Judge of all the earth.

For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

 

[Josheb]

The christ-creators refuse...........

Thank you for your time.