No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

[Tambora]

"Before the foundation of the world" refers to the Covenant of Redemption that was internal to the Godhead. An agreement and the plan to accomplish it, between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That is not when death was actually defeated by Christ. That took place as the plan unfolded within history, and at the cross. That is where sin was defeated and its consequence, death, for the believer. The believer's body will die but he like Jesus, will be resurrected when Christ returns. It is at his return that the final defeat of death occurs (Rev 21).

Ummmm.

John 3
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


And on top of that, I was under the impression that Calvinists believe that God is outside of time and therefore everything happens simultaneously with God.
So since it's God that does the drawing, when do you say He does it???

 

[Tambora]

They are referring to the spiritual condition of the natural person.

You think the death and resurrection of Christ was only for physical death?

 

[Arial]

You think the death and resurrection of Christ was only for physical death?

No. ?? It was for the forgiveness of sin in order to reconcile believers to God. Death is the penalty for sin. Ultimately it was to destroy sin and death and its source. It is Christ's resurrection that guarantees ours.

 

[atpollard]

Ummmm.

John 3
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


And on top of that, I was under the impression that Calvinists believe that God is outside of time and therefore everything happens simultaneously with God.
So since it's God that does the drawing, when do you say He does it???

God exists independent of time (outside is a common description, but it is inaccurate since God is not absent from time … God appeared in a burning bush before Moses at a real moment in time and God spoke from heaven when Jesus was baptized at a real moment in time). However with that said, God functions within time and outside of time when dealing with men. Consider …

Romans 8:30 [NKJV] Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

“Predestined” occurred before the start of time:

Ephesians 1:3-6 [NKJV] Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.​

​

“Called” occurs in time.

“Glorified” occurs at the end of time/start of eternity.

Therefore, God made the DECISION before time, DREW at the “right time” and will GLORIFY when “time is up”.

​

​

 

[Arial]

Ummmm.

John 3
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


And on top of that, I was under the impression that Calvinists believe that God is outside of time and therefore everything happens simultaneously with God.
So since it's God that does the drawing, when do you say He does it???

All the exaggerated and misrepresentative language aside---before the foundation of the world. That is all we are told. The Covenant and plan of redemption was before creation, but it must play out historically within time because that is where we are. Redemption in all its progression is a historical event made up of historical, witnessed, events.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus spoke the words that showed that Him being on the cross would be the means that would draw all men.

John 12
(32) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

One God draws all by one means.

Drawing is saving, so all He draws are all saved. It doesnt include the lost

 

[brightfame52]

I've seen it said several times at this site ..... that a "dead" person cannot do anything.

The Spiritually dead cant do anything Spiritual. And coming to Christ is a spiritual action.

 

[brightfame52]

No man can come to Christ naturally because by nature as Paul writes concerning the gentiles in Eph 2 they are helpless and without hope in themselves pertaining to Salvation Eph 2:12

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Man naturally, is without spiritual strength Rom 5:6

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. We were by nature powerless to help ourselves, in a dead lost spiritual state !