Music question

[Josheb]

Being a Christian do you all still listen to secular music?

Yes.

Like @DialecticSkeptic, I listen to almost everything if done well (even polka ) My version of his "polka" would be the thrash end of heavy metal and/or rap so fast I can't understand it or so vulgar it assaults decorum and the senses. Of course, there are always artists who exceed my (moral, religious, spiritual) tolerances for content in every genre. When I first read the question I thought, "Yes, I have conversations with secular people every day," because that's all music is - a conversation.

I expect non-Christians to act like non-Christians (and given what I did professionally for many years I also know no Christian musician lives an impeccable life).

I can remember at first, I wanted to give it all up. As time went on, I listened to secular music but it was filtered. There are certain songs or bands I won't listen to any longer.

However, I personally believe much contemporary Christian music is not Christian.

Sadly, or not, on two occasions in my early days as a Christian I accepted the anti-rock preaching and destroyed two record collections. The first was over 1200 records, the second (a few years later) was over 800. I look back on that is facing the reality music and my record collection were idols with which I did need to dispense, but I needn't have been so legalistic about it and destroy everything the second time around. I've been much more discerning with my current CD collection. I do not buy or listen to anything I cannot hear in good conscience.

Isaiah 53:3
He was despised and abandoned by men, A man of great pain and familiar with sickness; And like one from whom people hide their faces, He was despised, and we had no regard for Him.

Luke 7:31-35
"To what then shall I compare the men of this generation, and what are they like? They are like children who sit in the marketplace and call to one another, and they say, 'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not weep.' For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, 'He has a demon!' The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Yet wisdom is vindicated by all her children."

I suspect Jesus was a bluesman . The idea that Jesus couldn't or wouldn't listen to a song about fishing, hard work, politics, illness, love, betrayal, etc. is incomprehensible to me. I completely embrace the likelihood he would have corrected all of it in some way or another if asked, but it's foolishness to imagine there were no earthly songs (or perhaps even bawdy) sung at Matthew's parties. I suspect even some religious music caused him distress because Judaism missed a lot. I was listening to a song Sunday that spoke of our weakness in a manner I found theologically inconsistent with the gospel, if not incorrect. It happens. Shall I go complain to the worship leader and petition the elders so that song is never again sung in this congregation ? Or maybe I just get over myself .

James 1:26-27
If anyone thinks himself to be religious and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless. Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

For better or worse, the tongue is connected to the eyes and ears. Therefore, keeping oneself undefiled necessarily requires disciplining what goes in both organs. Discipline starts with God working within our will and not the efforts of our flesh alone. Just as each individual has different abilities to lift weights, run fast or far, do math, cook delicious meals, etc. soto do people have different abilities to hear music. I most cases I'd rather have a spike driven through my head than listen to opera sung in a language I don't understand, so I can completely understand why someone might want to be shot halfway through the opening scene of Aristophanes or Chaucer (which is just lyrics without music accompanying it). When I disciple or mentor someone there is a point at which I will ask them what the listen to (or read) and how they think that helps them be more Christlike. "True Blood," "The Hollows," or the "Discovery of Witches" series can be much more damaging than a Black Sabbath recording.

As far as Christian music goes, much of it is pablum. There are a few exceptions, and a few exceptional talents, but I get further and further behind due to my age and failure to keep up. I'm still listening to Phil Keaggy. There are also Christians who play in the secular field, recording songs released on secular labels and performed in secular venues. There are literally tons of Christian session players. I once attended a worship service in California congregation and Dean Parks, Abraham Laboriel, Alexa Acuna, Michelle Pillar and others were in the band leading worship (look 'em up). Charlie Peacock anyone?

 

[makesends]

Yes.

Like @DialecticSkeptic, I listen to almost everything if done well (even polka ) My version of his "polka" would be the thrash end of heavy metal and/or rap so fast I can't understand it or so vulgar it assaults decorum and the senses. Of course, there are always artists who exceed my (moral, religious, spiritual) tolerances for content in every genre. When I first read the question I thought, "Yes, I have conversations with secular people every day," because that's all music is - a conversation.

I expect non-Christians to act like non-Christians (and given what I did professionally for many years I also know no Christian musician lives an impeccable life).

Sadly, or not, on two occasions in my early days as a Christian I accepted the anti-rock preaching and destroyed two record collections. The first was over 1200 records, the second (a few years later) was over 800. I look back on that is facing the reality music and my record collection were idols with which I did need to dispense, but I needn't have been so legalistic about it and destroy everything the second time around. I've been much more discerning with my current CD collection. I do not buy or listen to anything I cannot hear in good conscience.

Isaiah 53:3
He was despised and abandoned by men, A man of great pain and familiar with sickness; And like one from whom people hide their faces, He was despised, and we had no regard for Him.

Luke 7:31-35
"To what then shall I compare the men of this generation, and what are they like? They are like children who sit in the marketplace and call to one another, and they say, 'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not weep.' For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, 'He has a demon!' The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Yet wisdom is vindicated by all her children."

I suspect Jesus was a bluesman . The idea that Jesus couldn't or wouldn't listen to a song about fishing, hard work, politics, illness, love, betrayal, etc. is incomprehensible to me. I completely embrace the likelihood he would have corrected all of it in some way or another if asked, but it's foolishness to imagine there were no earthly songs (or perhaps even bawdy) sung at Matthew's parties. I suspect even some religious music caused him distress because Judaism missed a lot. I was listening to a song Sunday that spoke of our weakness in a manner I found theologically inconsistent with the gospel, if not incorrect. It happens. Shall I go complain to the worship leader and petition the elders so that song is never again sung in this congregation ? Or maybe I just get over myself .

James 1:26-27
If anyone thinks himself to be religious and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless. Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

For better or worse, the tongue is connected to the eyes and ears. Therefore, keeping oneself undefiled necessarily requires disciplining what goes in both organs. Discipline starts with God working within our will and not the efforts of our flesh alone. Just as each individual has different abilities to lift weights, run fast or far, do math, cook delicious meals, etc. soto do people have different abilities to hear music. I most cases I'd rather have a spike driven through my head than listen to opera sung in a language I don't understand, so I can completely understand why someone might want to be shot halfway through the opening scene of Aristophanes or Chaucer (which is just lyrics without music accompanying it). When I disciple or mentor someone there is a point at which I will ask them what the listen to (or read) and how they think that helps them be more Christlike. "True Blood," "The Hollows," or the "Discovery of Witches" series can be much more damaging than a Black Sabbath recording.

As far as Christian music goes, much of it is pablum. There are a few exceptions, and a few exceptional talents, but I get further and further behind due to my age and failure to keep up. I'm still listening to Phil Keaggy. There are also Christians who play in the secular field, recording songs released on secular labels and performed in secular venues. There are literally tons of Christian session players. I once attended a worship service in California congregation and Dean Parks, Abraham Laboriel, Alexa Acuna, Michelle Pillar and others were in the band leading worship (look 'em up). Charlie Peacock anyone?

They say that males have a tendency to listen to the music and women the lyrics. I would tend to agree with that—I love the music, usually, for the music, and great lyrics set to junk music doesn't do much for me. This is why I like good instrumental music. I wish secular sources would do more of that. What I really don't like is amateur-sounding grandiosity, both the music and the lyric.

(All that worry over what is good music for Christians, reminds me of the day I made the mistake of telling my wife, two or three weeks after the wedding, "Why not just calm down and quit trying to win each other over and quit trying to fit the other spouse to our ideas of what a spouse should be? All that, 'he loves me, he doesn't love me', is over with now. We're married. It's done! We should just enjoy each other now!")

 

[Josheb]

This is why I like good instrumental music. I wish secular sources would do more of that.

Give Ten Years After's "Standing at the Station" a listen. Lights out, leaning back in the recliner, headphones on 10.

.....telling my wife, two or three weeks after the wedding, "Why not just calm down............"

ROTFLMBO!!!

You'd been listening to too much secular music .

 

[3 Resurrections]

There are certain songs or bands I won't listen to any longer.

Since I am reformed as well as Preterist, there are certain hymns and songs which I refuse to sing. Like "Come ye sinners poor and needy". Sinners aren't just "poor and needy, weak and wounded, sick and sore". They are DEAD in trespasses and sins before Christ does a work within them which draws them to Himself.

And hymns like "A Mighty Fortress is Our God". Contrary to Luther's beliefs, this world is no longer "with devils filled". Neither is the "Prince of Darkness grim" in existence on this planet anymore since God slew that creature back in AD 70. Humanity doesn't need to endure Satan's rage anymore, since his "short time" was over in the first century. Luther had it wrong.

 

[makesends]

Since I am reformed as well as Preterist, there are certain hymns and songs which I refuse to sing. Like "Come ye sinners poor and needy". Sinners aren't just "poor and needy, weak and wounded, sick and sore". They are DEAD in trespasses and sins before Christ does a work within them which draws them to Himself.

And hymns like "A Mighty Fortress is Our God". Contrary to Luther's beliefs, this world is no longer "with devils filled". Neither is the "Prince of Darkness grim" in existence on this planet anymore since God slew that creature back in AD 70. Humanity doesn't need to endure Satan's rage anymore, since his "short time" was over in the first century. Luther had it wrong.

If that is what Reformed Preterists believe about Satan, I'm no preterist. I'm not saying he isn't already locked up. I'm saying he is still very much active here. I've seen too much to believe otherwise.

To place physical parameters on spiritual principles doesn't always work. —Just saying.

 

[3 Resurrections]

If that is what Reformed Preterists believe about Satan, I'm no preterist. I'm not saying he isn't already locked up. I'm saying he is still very much active here. I've seen too much to believe otherwise.

Luther forgot to read Romans 16:20. Paul wrote that God was "shortly" going to crush Satan under the feet of the saints in those first-century days.

Satan was released in AD 33 from his deception being bound by that millennial chain. He was cast out of heaven down to earth on the occasion of Christ's resurrection-day ascension, and allowed to once again harass mankind with renewed, ramped-up levels of deception. John warned the church in Rev. 12:12 that a released Satan had already come down to them in great wrath, knowing he had but a "short time" left to operate in this world. That "short time" and "little season" at the expiration of the millennium in AD 33 did not last beyond AD 70 when Satan and his devils were all slain by God, as prophesied.

God had promised to burn that formerly-anointed cherub to ashes on the earth in Ezekiel 28:18-19 so that "never shalt thou exist anymore". Luther thought he was battling with Satan in his days, but he forgot to read the memo in Romans 16:20 about WHEN God was going to destroy Satan. It is not Satan who is presently commiting evil and deception in this world. It is the natural depravity of humankind which is actively performing and imagining all sorts of evil. To say otherwise is to pass the buck of personal responsibility for our own heart's tendency to perform evil, which is where Christ also laid the blame in Mark 7:21-23. "For from within, out of the heart of men proceed evil thoughts..." etc..

To place physical parameters on spiritual principles doesn't always work. —Just saying.

Satan was not simply a spirit being created without any kind of physical substance. Paul spoke about angelic "celestial" bodies, which were a different type than "terrestrial bodies" such as we mortal humans have. The celestial body which Satan had could most definitely be physically destroyed. He was not an immortal being.

"A Mighty Fortress" has some really twisted theology regarding Satan. I refuse to sing it.

Also, many "rapture" songs are likewise really twisted in their theology. I don't sing those either.

 

[makesends]

Luther forgot to read Romans 16:20. Paul wrote that God was "shortly" going to crush Satan under the feet of the saints in those first-century days.

Satan was released in AD 33 from his deception being bound by that millennial chain. He was cast out of heaven down to earth on the occasion of Christ's resurrection-day ascension, and allowed to once again harass mankind with renewed, ramped-up levels of deception. John warned the church in Rev. 12:12 that a released Satan had already come down to them in great wrath, knowing he had but a "short time" left to operate in this world. That "short time" and "little season" at the expiration of the millennium in AD 33 did not last beyond AD 70 when Satan and his devils were all slain by God, as prophesied.

God had promised to burn that formerly-anointed cherub to ashes on the earth in Ezekiel 28:18-19 so that "never shalt thou exist anymore". Luther thought he was battling with Satan in his days, but he forgot to read the memo in Romans 16:20 about WHEN God was going to destroy Satan. It is not Satan who is presently commiting evil and deception in this world. It is the natural depravity of humankind which is actively performing and imagining all sorts of evil. To say otherwise is to pass the buck of personal responsibility for our own heart's tendency to perform evil, which is where Christ also laid the blame in Mark 7:21-23. "For from within, out of the heart of men proceed evil thoughts..." etc..

Satan was not simply a spirit being created without any kind of physical substance. Paul spoke about angelic "celestial" bodies, which were a different type than "terrestrial bodies" such as we mortal humans have. The celestial body which Satan had could most definitely be physically destroyed. He was not an immortal being.

"A Mighty Fortress" has some really twisted theology regarding Satan. I refuse to sing it.

Also, many "rapture" songs are likewise really twisted in their theology. I don't sing those either.

I shouldn't have answered you. It's off topic.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Being a Christian do you all still listen to secular music?

I can remember at first, I wanted to give it all up. As time went on, I listened to secular music but it was filtered. There are certain songs or bands I won't listen to any longer.

However, I personally believe much contemporary Christian music is not Christian.

I love my classic rock. (pink Floyd, Eagles, Rush led Zep)

But I listen to Christian radio for the most part..

 

[Hazelelponi]

I shouldn't have answered you. It's off topic.

Very difficult not to.. I'm telling you.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

Luther forgot to read Romans 16:20. Paul wrote that God was "shortly" going to crush Satan under the feet of the saints in those first-century days.

Satan was released in AD 33 from his deception being bound by that millennial chain. He was cast out of heaven down to earth on the occasion of Christ's resurrection-day ascension, and allowed to once again harass mankind with renewed, ramped-up levels of deception. John warned the church in Rev. 12:12 that a released Satan had already come down to them in great wrath, knowing he had but a "short time" left to operate in this world. That "short time" and "little season" at the expiration of the millennium in AD 33 did not last beyond AD 70 when Satan and his devils were all slain by God, as prophesied.

God had promised to burn that formerly-anointed cherub to ashes on the earth in Ezekiel 28:18-19 so that "never shalt thou exist anymore". Luther thought he was battling with Satan in his days, but he forgot to read the memo in Romans 16:20 about WHEN God was going to destroy Satan. It is not Satan who is presently commiting evil and deception in this world. It is the natural depravity of humankind which is actively performing and imagining all sorts of evil. To say otherwise is to pass the buck of personal responsibility for our own heart's tendency to perform evil, which is where Christ also laid the blame in Mark 7:21-23. "For from within, out of the heart of men proceed evil thoughts..." etc..

Satan was not simply a spirit being created without any kind of physical substance. Paul spoke about angelic "celestial" bodies, which were a different type than "terrestrial bodies" such as we mortal humans have. The celestial body which Satan had could most definitely be physically destroyed. He was not an immortal being.

"A Mighty Fortress" has some really twisted theology regarding Satan. I refuse to sing it.

Also, many "rapture" songs are likewise really twisted in their theology. I don't sing those either.

Off-topic post. Do better.