More, or Less?

[Josheb]

Is Jesus more of a king if/when he physically steps foot on earth, or less of a king? Is he less of a king when he leaves his throne in heaven for one on earth, or more?

This is an inquiry regarding Christ's nature (Christology), not end times (eschatology).

 

[Arial]

Is Jesus more of a king if/when he physically steps foot on earth, or less of a king? Is he less of a king when he leaves his throne in heaven for one on earth, or more?

This is an inquiry regarding Christ's nature (Christology), not end times (eschatology).

He is King of kings and you can't get any higher than that. That is God.

So, the question to be raised in answering the OP questions is when he was enthroned as King?

Acts 2 declares that it was at the resurrection and ascension. Which means he is reigning as King from heaven now. When he returns it is not to take up his throne on earth but because he has put all his enemies under his feet.



“Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne,
he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ…
This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses.
Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God…
For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,
‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
until I make your enemies your footstool.’
Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

I am perfectly willing to accept that you purposely presented "flawed" questions to get at a correct answer. They are
"flawed" in that they are framed assuming kingship can increase or decrease or that it depends on location.

Matt 28:18 Jesus stated, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." There is no "more" to gain it is already total authority.

So my answer to the questions is that Christ is not more or less of a King--he is equally and fully King in both cases.

 

[Josheb]

He is King of kings and you can't get any higher than that. That is God.

So, the question to be raised in answering the OP questions is when he was enthroned as King?

Logically speaking, if Jesus is also God (fully God and fully man) then he has always also been King.

So my answer to the questions is that Christ is not more or less of a King--he is equally and fully King in both cases.

I agree.

 

[Josheb]

I've got a question for everyone that has nothing to do with this op, but this is as good a place to ask it as any.

Is anyone else having difficulty using Bible Hub when I link to the website? I've noticed the nag screen has changed from a membership solicitation to a request to close the ad blocker. However, if I am linking to a single verse neither appears and the site can be navigated without incident. If the membership solicitation appears that can be closed and the site used without hinderance. The ad blocker request, however, obstructs the website from further use (unless ad blocker is closed). I could use Bible Gateway, Blue Letter, or one of the other alternatives but BH is very easy to use (or at least it has been until now). I'll stop using BH as a resource link if others are having this problem.

Anyone else experiencing problems with BH?

 

[makesends]

He is King of kings and you can't get any higher than that. That is God.

So, the question to be raised in answering the OP questions is when he was enthroned as King?

Acts 2 declares that it was at the resurrection and ascension. Which means he is reigning as King from heaven now. When he returns it is not to take up his throne on earth but because he has put all his enemies under his feet.



“Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne,
he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ…
This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses.
Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God…
For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,
‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
until I make your enemies your footstool.’
Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

I am perfectly willing to accept that you purposely presented "flawed" questions to get at a correct answer. They are
"flawed" in that they are framed assuming kingship can increase or decrease or that it depends on location.

Matt 28:18 Jesus stated, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." There is no "more" to gain it is already total authority.

So my answer to the questions is that Christ is not more or less of a King--he is equally and fully King in both cases.

But not from the foundation of the world? Not from all eternity past?

 

[Arial]

But not from the foundation of the world? Not from all eternity past?

In eternity past Jesus was not incarnate. He was the Son (the Word) who became incarnate. The Christ in eternity past (what temporal word "past" is) was not a descendant of David. He became a descendant of David according to the flesh in the incarnation. From before the foundation of the world, he agreed with the Father and the Spirit to come as the descendant of David to sit on the king's throne. He came to conquer the power of sin and death, which he did on the cross and is now seated at the right hand of the Father, having returned to him, and is defeating all his enemies from the place of kingly authority.

 

[makesends]

In eternity past Jesus was not incarnate. He was the Son (the Word) who became incarnate. The Christ in eternity past (what temporal word "past" is) was not a descendant of David. He became a descendant of David according to the flesh in the incarnation. From before the foundation of the world, he agreed with the Father and the Spirit to come as the descendant of David to sit on the king's throne. He came to conquer the power of sin and death, which he did on the cross and is now seated at the right hand of the Father, having returned to him, and is defeating all his enemies from the place of kingly authority.

I'll take that as a, "no".

As to the promise and as to his humanity, I agree to a point. But we are made in God's image and we don't know what that means.

As to his Divinity, he has always been THE KING.

 

[makesends]

I've got a question for everyone that has nothing to do with this op, but this is as good a place to ask it as any.

Is anyone else having difficulty using Bible Hub when I link to the website? I've noticed the nag screen has changed from a membership solicitation to a request to close the ad blocker. However, if I am linking to a single verse neither appears and the site can be navigated without incident. If the membership solicitation appears that can be closed and the site used without hinderance. The ad blocker request, however, obstructs the website from further use (unless ad blocker is closed). I could use Bible Gateway, Blue Letter, or one of the other alternatives but BH is very easy to use (or at least it has been until now). I'll stop using BH as a resource link if others are having this problem.

Anyone else experiencing problems with BH?

"nag screen"?

Anyhow, if I ask for Gospel of John, it goes to describe and summarize etc with no problems that I saw, just as if I ask for John 1, or John 1:3, or any verse interlinear.

 

[Arial]

As to the promise and as to his humanity, I agree to a point. But we are made in God's image and we don't know what that means.

By "we" do you mean "you". I know what it means but I don't know what it has to do with my post or your comment.

As to his Divinity, he has always been THE KING.

Did he become "not King" in his humanity?

 

[makesends]

By "we" do you mean "you". I know what it means but I don't know what it has to do with my post or your comment.

Did he become "not King" in his humanity?

"Already, but not yet"

 

[Arial]

"Already, but not yet"

Just so I can be clear on what you are saying. Does the "already but not yet" refer to him already being King but not yet being King? Or are you referring to somethng else?

 

[makesends]

Just so I can be clear on what you are saying. Does the "already but not yet" refer to him already being King but not yet being King? Or are you referring to somethng else?

The principle applies. The fact is universal and eternal, but is established according to the temporal as a promise fulfilled. In one sense, it is already so before the promise and before the cross. In another, it is yet to come before the cross.

It is also currently applicable. In one sense, he is King of Kings because of and subsequent to the cross. But it is not yet seen as a physical reality, (pretty much regardless of one's eschatology and its corresponding use of, "Physical".

In at least one sense, he has never been, not-King. In at least one sense, he has become (or, alternately, will become) King.

 

[makesends]

makesends said:
As to the promise and as to his humanity, I agree to a point. But we are made in God's image and we don't know what that means

By "we" do you mean "you". I know what it means but I don't know what it has to do with my post or your comment.

I mean nobody knows. We have some ideas but there is bound to be more to it.

As to why I said it, it may well relate to what it means, "Made in the image of God." We don't know very much of what glorification is. We don't know the relationship between the persons of the trinity well enough to know quite what happened at the sovereign event of his conception. We don't know quite in what way his humanity IS endemic to the I AM. There are riddles beyond us there.

 

[Arial]

It is also currently applicable. In one sense, he is King of Kings because of and subsequent to the cross. But it is not yet seen as a physical reality, (pretty much regardless of one's eschatology and its corresponding use of, "Physical".

I argue that it is seen in that he has defeated the power of sin and death for the believer and all believers are sealed in him. What isn't seen yet is the death of death, the new creation and God dwelling with us visibly. God is dwelling with us now ----the Holy Spirit in us is God with us.

 

[makesends]

I argue that it is seen in that he has defeated the power of sin and death for the believer and all believers are sealed in him. What isn't seen yet is the death of death, the new creation and God dwelling with us visibly. God is dwelling with us now ----the Holy Spirit in us is God with us.

Granted. That doesn't change my point.