Lutheran Mass Is Still Idolatry

[Ladodgers6]

I believe that how Lutherans treat communion is still an offense to God by believing His Presence is in the bread and the wine; thus committing idolatry. Luther may believe justification by faith alone but what we build on that foundation will be judged. Any works on that foundation that denies Him, is how and why He will deny them. One does not need to verbally deny Him, but by doing works of iniquity, they are denying Him.

Again, I beg to differ. Luther disagreed with the RCC and challenged the Pope. After Luther was illuminated with the Gospel (Justification by Faith Alone), which negates any works we can do before or after our redemption. Yes, I do agree that Luther made mistakes, how many of the Apostles sinned? Didn't Peter deny Jesus 3 times? Praise and glory be to God alone who justifies the ungodly through Faith Alone apart from works of the Law. If Luther would have known that his position on communion was off, I know for a fact that he would have recanted.

But you so easily brush aside Justification by Faith Alone as if it doesn't have any centrality to the soul and the church. Sir or Ma'am it is the core of the Gospel. It is how a sinner is declared righteous before a Holy God. I see in your bio that you were a former Presbyterian. How is it that you so easily dismiss Justification? Without it we have nothing.

But I thought you were addressing Lutheran Mass?

This is what Luther believes:

The proximate species of sacrifice are two, and there are no more. One is the propitiatory sacrifice, i.e., a work which makes satisfaction for guilt and punishment, i.e., one that reconciles God, or appeases God's wrath, or which merits the remission of sins for others. The other species is the eucharistic sacrifice, which does not merit the remission of sins or reconciliation, but is rendered by those who have been reconciled, in order that we may give thanks or return gratitude for the remission of sins that has been received, or for other benefits received. (XXIV §19)

Aren't we suppose to present our bodies as living sacrifices?

Romans 12:1 Therefore I urge you, brothers, on account of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.​

 

[ChristB4us]

Again, I beg to differ. Luther disagreed with the RCC and challenged the Pope. After Luther was illuminated with the Gospel (Justification by Faith Alone), which negates any works we can do before or after our redemption. Yes, I do agree that Luther made mistakes, how many of the Apostles sinned? Didn't Peter deny Jesus 3 times? Praise and glory be to God alone who justifies the ungodly through Faith Alone apart from works of the Law. If Luther would have known that his position on communion was off, I know for a fact that he would have recanted.

But you so easily brush aside Justification by Faith Alone as if it doesn't have any centrality to the soul and the church. Sir or Ma'am it is the core of the Gospel. It is how a sinner is declared righteous before a Holy God. I see in your bio that you were a former Presbyterian. How is it that you so easily dismiss Justification? Without it we have nothing.

But I thought you were addressing Lutheran Mass?

This is what Luther believes:

The proximate species of sacrifice are two, and there are no more. One is the propitiatory sacrifice, i.e., a work which makes satisfaction for guilt and punishment, i.e., one that reconciles God, or appeases God's wrath, or which merits the remission of sins for others. The other species is the eucharistic sacrifice, which does not merit the remission of sins or reconciliation, but is rendered by those who have been reconciled, in order that we may give thanks or return gratitude for the remission of sins that has been received, or for other benefits received. (XXIV §19)

Aren't we suppose to present our bodies as living sacrifices?

Romans 12:1 Therefore I urge you, brothers, on account of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.​

I was not saying Luther's belief that Christ's Presence in the bread and the wine serves as a means to salvation like Catholics do;

I was saying that in spite of Luther believing they are saved without works, he is still committing sin of idolatry by believing Christ's Presence is in the bread and the wine. He is still saved but that is a work of iniquity on that foundation for which he and every professing saved believer must repent from as it is an offense to God.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Communion is not how nor is it ever a means to come into His Presence or receiving His Presence again through the bread & the wine.

The bread and the wine becomes an antichrist when believing His Presence is at communion and even in the bread & wine itself.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

The holy communion is not the door to come to God the Father by. Only Jesus Christ is.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

 

[ChristB4us]

Aren't we suppose to present our bodies as living sacrifices?

Romans 12:1 Therefore I urge you, brothers, on account of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.​

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. KJV

Don't know what Bible version you are using that added "of worship" to that verse.

Just so you know and to clarify what I am sharing;

The pre great tribulation rapture event is when God will judge His House first. 1 Peter 4:17

Those found reprobates are disqualified and left behind for being workers of iniquity, BUT they are still His servants and thus still saved,

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

In that day of judgment on the House of God, see how the Lord will judge every believer by what they build on that foundation laid by Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
So any works of iniquity on that foundation that denies Him, He will deny them, but He still abides in them that gets left behind, even in former believers that would verbally deny Him.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
This is why His disciples are to call others that are living in sin or practicing religious works that deny Him to repent with His help so they too may obtain that eternal glory of being that vessel unto honor in His House to be received by Him at the pre great tribulation rapture event.
2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So no loss of salvation as the vessels unto dishonor are still in His House but missed out on being partakers of the firstfruit of the resurrection.

Like the prodigal son that gave up his first inheritance for a meal and can never get it back, he is still son.

But better to heed the call to continue the reformation that Luther did not finish to abstain from all appearances of evil than to continue as is.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Anyway, this is how saved believers are still saved by the grace of God and yet have works that deny Him on that foundation for why they are disqualified to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven at the pre great tribulation rapture event when God shall judge His House first.

1 Peter 4:1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. 3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: 4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: 13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. 14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

May God bless you in the hearing of His words and Jesus Christ enabling you to follow Him.

 

[Ladodgers6]

I was not saying Luther's belief that Christ's Presence in the bread and the wine serves as a means to salvation like Catholics do;

I was saying that in spite of Luther believing they are saved without works, he is still committing sin of idolatry by believing Christ's Presence is in the bread and the wine. He is still saved but that is a work of iniquity on that foundation for which he and every professing saved believer must repent from as it is an offense to God.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Communion is not how nor is it ever a means to come into His Presence or receiving His Presence again through the bread & the wine.

The bread and the wine becomes an antichrist when believing His Presence is at communion and even in the bread & wine itself.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

The holy communion is not the door to come to God the Father by. Only Jesus Christ is.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Please elaborate further. Because aren't people saved by the word, sacraments and spirit?

 

[Ladodgers6]

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. KJV

Don't know what Bible version you are using that added "of worship" to that verse.

Just so you know and to clarify what I am sharing;

The pre great tribulation rapture event is when God will judge His House first. 1 Peter 4:17

Those found reprobates are disqualified and left behind for being workers of iniquity, BUT they are still His servants and thus still saved,

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

In that day of judgment on the House of God, see how the Lord will judge every believer by what they build on that foundation laid by Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
So any works of iniquity on that foundation that denies Him, He will deny them, but He still abides in them that gets left behind, even in former believers that would verbally deny Him.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
This is why His disciples are to call others that are living in sin or practicing religious works that deny Him to repent with His help so they too may obtain that eternal glory of being that vessel unto honor in His House to be received by Him at the pre great tribulation rapture event.
2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So no loss of salvation as the vessels unto dishonor are still in His House but missed out on being partakers of the firstfruit of the resurrection.

Like the prodigal son that gave up his first inheritance for a meal and can never get it back, he is still son.

But better to heed the call to continue the reformation that Luther did not finish to abstain from all appearances of evil than to continue as is.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Anyway, this is how saved believers are still saved by the grace of God and yet have works that deny Him on that foundation for why they are disqualified to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven at the pre great tribulation rapture event when God shall judge His House first.

1 Peter 4:1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. 3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: 4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: 13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. 14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

May God bless you in the hearing of His words and Jesus Christ enabling you to follow Him.

Indulge me, in your bio is stated you're a former Presbyterian, correct? Which one now?

 

[ChristB4us]

Please elaborate further. Because aren't people saved by the word, sacraments and spirit?

You do know that the Catholics can say that too without blinking?

Is Jesus Christ the Saviour or not? Then believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead are saved... just like that.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Discipleship is a race run by faith in Jesus Christ to finish His work in us to His crowning glory on us for why we would cast our crowns at His feet. This is not for obtaining salvation because those whom will be disqualified from that race are still saved when left behind, but lose their crowns and therefore not being partakers of the firstfruits of the resurrection to attend that Marriage Supper in Heaven.

Lutherans and other Protestant churches needs to drop the term Eucharist, sacraments, The term 'holy" from communion, and the way they begin the communion service as if we are coming into His presence which is a lie, when in truth, He is in us and with us always.

Any works on that foundation that denies Him, He will deny them their inheritance in that City of God whereby they will be resurrected after the great tribulation to serve the King of kings on earth from all over the world in raising up the generations coming from them.

 

[ChristB4us]

Indulge me, in your bio is stated you're a former Presbyterian, correct? Which one now?

Nowhere now. By the grace of God and His help as a scattered sheep due to false prophets, I represent no church but the faith in Jesus Christ and therefore doing what churches are supposed to be doing in testifying of Him in seeking His glory rather than their church and her glory.

 

[Ladodgers6]

You do know that the Catholics can say that too without blinking?

Is Jesus Christ the Saviour or not? Then believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead are saved... just like that.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Discipleship is a race run by faith in Jesus Christ to finish His work in us to His crowning glory on us for why we would cast our crowns at His feet. This is not for obtaining salvation because those whom will be disqualified from that race are still saved when left behind, but lose their crowns and therefore not being partakers of the firstfruits of the resurrection to attend that Marriage Supper in Heaven.

Lutherans and other Protestant churches needs to drop the term Eucharist, sacraments, The term 'holy" from communion, and the way they begin the communion service as if we are coming into His presence which is a lie, when in truth, He is in us and with us always.

Any works on that foundation that denies Him, He will deny them their inheritance in that City of God whereby they will be resurrected after the great tribulation to serve the King of kings on earth from all over the world in raising up the generations coming from them.

Sacraments is a means of Grace, correct?

 

[Ladodgers6]

Nowhere now. By the grace of God and His help as a scattered sheep due to false prophets, I represent no church but the faith in Jesus Christ and therefore doing what churches are supposed to be doing in testifying of Him in seeking His glory rather than their church and her glory.

Thanks for sharing. Do you know and understand the Doctrine of Justification by Faith Alone?

 

[ChristB4us]

Sacraments is a means of Grace, correct?

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Sacraments cannot be a means of grace if one has to work by receiving the sacraments as a means of grace.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[ChristB4us]

Thanks for sharing. Do you know and understand the Doctrine of Justification by Faith Alone?

The way Martin Luther tells it exactly? Not really recalling it now.

But how they use communion as a means of grace? It would be contrary to what Luther says about the Doctrine of Justification by Faith Alone.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Communion is not how nor is it ever a means to come into His Presence or receiving His Presence again through the bread & the wine.

The bread and the wine becomes an antichrist when believing His Presence is at communion and even in the bread & wine itself.

Thank you for your personal, fallible, interpretations of scripture and the Mass.

 

[ChristB4us]

Thank you for your personal, fallible, interpretations of scripture and the Mass.

You should thank the RCC for the Mass since neither Peter nor any of the disciples had taught communion to be as the Mass as the RCC had done.

You should thank the Jesuits that are infiltrating the Protestant churches in placing a line here and another line there and pretty soon, Lutherans are wondering why they had ever left the RCC along with other Protestant churches, because the Protestants are talking like the RCC do.

 

[Arch Stanton]

You should thank the RCC for the Mass

I do every day! AMEN!

 

[Ladodgers6]

The way Martin Luther tells it exactly? Not really recalling it now.

But how they use communion as a means of grace? It would be contrary to what Luther says about the Doctrine of Justification by Faith Alone.

Well, my friend, this is one point that all the Reformers were 100% in consensus with. I suggest you research it and get to know it, because this is the crux of the Gospel. If you need help or want me to share with you no problem, it will be my pleasure for sure.

 

[Ladodgers6]

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Sacraments cannot be a means of grace if one has to work by receiving the sacraments as a means of grace.

Sorry to inform you but the Sacraments is a means of Grace.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[ChristB4us]

I do every day! AMEN!

And wonder why Peter did not initiate it first?

 

[ChristB4us]

Well, my friend, this is one point that all the Reformers were 100% in consensus with. I suggest you research it and get to know it, because this is the crux of the Gospel. If you need help or want me to share with you no problem, it will be my pleasure for sure.

If there was necessity for a reformation; it may very well suggests that the reformers did not do away with all that was Catholicism after all.

 

[ChristB4us]

Sorry to inform you but the Sacraments is a means of Grace.

Do you have scripture for that? No. Then you have to look at that as something the N.T. scriptures never taught communion to serve as.

Otherwise, you would be taking it for more than in remembrance of Him.

If we were to take communion for some spiritual benefits as the Presbyterian are claiming with Christ putting His Presence in the bread and the wine, then how does that not make the bread and the wine idols if we believe His Presence is in them?

If communion was to serve for any other reason, important significant reasons other than doing it in remembrance of Him, then Jesus would have led with that, but He did not.

Anyway, thank you for sharing as it would explain why Jesus did not lead me to go back to my former church because for them to listen is to go against the Presbytery and thus lose their jobs if not that church building; hence the conquest of the laity; which is the doctrines of the Nicolaitanes; whereas the deeds of the Nicolaitanes was sexual immorality.

I can see why many saved believers will be left behind because they cannot fathom that their church is leading them astray in words & deeds.

 

[Ladodgers6]

If there was necessity for a reformation; it may very well suggests that the reformers did not do away with all that was Catholicism after all.

Does the Trinity, Virgin Birth, Original Sin need to be Reformed?