Love your brother as yourself question

[fastfredy0]

Maybe the line, "God says He will send 1,000,000 people in hell to heaven if you will take their place in hell",
needs rewritten. My first reaction was, "What? Where does God say that?!"

I suppose it's too late, though, to add the word, "Suppose", first.

Yeah, I know this could never happen. It is a test to see if one "loves his brother as himself".

 

[fastfredy0]

How can you love yourself, without God Loving you first?

Strange question.
Excluding those that commit suicide I would say most people love themselves.
Love is measured by how much one favors the object of their love, in this case that would be how much one favors themself. IMO most people favor themself over any other person.

 

[fastfredy0]

That said, if what you are proposing 'could' happen (that you really could save a million souls from Hell by taking their place), I suppose that my first question would be, are you sure that any of them would really want you to do that

There is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. It seems to me that the rich man desperately wanted someone to warn his brothers: 27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
This implies strongly in my opinion that the "rich man" was unhappy with his situation.

Isn't that just an assumption on your part that they (as reprobates who hate God) would want to live out the balance of eternity with Him/in His presence

An assumption that I gave evidence above to support.
Again, the point of the thread to to see if someone here loves his brother as himself. So far no one has said they would go to hell in order to save 1,000,000 people from hell.

This was just a thought that came to mind when I read your proposal (granted, a bizarre one )

Again, the extreme proposal was used to measure one's love for one brother; granted, by a bizarre proposal.

... maybe more bizarre (very strange or unusual, especially in a striking or shocking way) is the idea that a perfect, all powerful God would take human form and let Himself be spat upon, flogged and tortured

 

[Ritajanice]

Strange question.
Excluding those that commit suicide I would say most people love themselves.
Love is measured by how much one favors the object of their love, in this case that would be how much one favors themself. IMO most people favor themself over any other person.

We don’t know what true love is, not until we are Born Of God’s seed.

And NO...I hated myself...that was until God showed up.

We all have different understandings of Love.

You’ve just voiced your “ own” opinion on what love means to you.

I’ve done the same.

 

[makesends]

Again, the point of the thread to to see if someone here loves his brother as himself. So far no one has said they would go to hell in order to save 1,000,000 people from hell.

I said as much several ways. I am willing. The problem is that the scenario isn't going to happen. AND, haha, it hasn't been tested of me, so I can't really KNOW. And I have several empirical reasons to doubt my resolve!

 

[atpollard]

Strange question.
Excluding those that commit suicide I would say most people love themselves.
Love is measured by how much one favors the object of their love, in this case that would be how much one favors themself. IMO most people favor themself over any other person.

Obesity related illness rounds out the top of the lists of "cause of death" ... indicating that we Americans literally 'love ourselves to death' by over-indulging our carnal [fleshly] desires.

Is that really love?
How different is that from an alcoholic drinking himself to death? Would you describe the homeless drunk as the pinnacle of self-love?

It is that stupid FALLEN HUMAN NATURE corrupting everything, again.

 

[fastfredy0]

I said as much several ways. I am willing.

You didn't vote... giggle.

the problem is that the scenario isn't going to happen.

Might be a problem if it was possible to happen. Got to wonder if you might change your mind after experiencing your choice.

AND, haha, it hasn't been tested of me, so I can't really KNOW.

This was a dry run ... lol

And I have several empirical reasons to doubt my resolve!

Yeah ... maybe like Peter saying he would never deny Christ ... but this would be harder to do than what Peter faced.
Aside: I had a Part B to the question ... but I won't bother to ask.

 

[fastfredy0]

Obesity related illness rounds out the top of the lists of "cause of death" ... indicating that we Americans literally 'love ourselves to death' by over-indulging our carnal [fleshly] desires.

Is that really love?
How different is that from an alcoholic drinking himself to death? Would you describe the homeless drunk as the pinnacle of self-love?

I see your perspective
... over eaters and alcoholics are loving (favoring) themselves by their actions. They tend not to consider long term consequences.
I define self-love as favoring yourself

 

[Alive]

Can you also stop with your intellect...it’s not needed...we’re in the spirit not the intellect.

I don’t understand your intellect...I’m not interested in your intellect....I only understand in the spirit.

Therefore you should be understanding in the spirit..which obviously takes time to understand.

Ok--this is a bit much toward another member, OK?
Ease up a bit and choose your responses more carefully. I know you can do better, sister.
Thank you.

 

[Ritajanice]

Ok--this is a bit much toward another member, OK?
Ease up a bit and choose your responses more carefully. I know you can do better, sister.
Thank you.

Bye Alive,..,so sorry...maybe I should have sent you a message pm..I see you are bias towards certain members here, imo, this member accused me of being ‘ angry “ I wasn’t.

To be honest it’s like treading on eggshells here, I want no part of that..very controlled environment with very little leeway for those you aren’t biased of.....my observation, you favour certain members, I don’t like the way you tell me I can do better either, ..you aren’t God ..very judgemental.........so I will leave...God Bless, it’s certainly been an experience..thank you Lord for that, certainly opened my eyes.

 

[atpollard]

One of Samuel Hopkins central ideas was that a person must love God so much as to be willing to be damned if that is for God's glory. "You know that it is most for the glory of God that some should be damned. And if you do not know that you are a Christian, you do not know but it is in fact true that you should be damned...Supposing, then, this were true...how ought you to feel with respect to it? Ought you not be willing to be damned?"

 

[atpollard]

“When you come to church when you worship him, you’re not doing it for God, really. You’re doing it for yourself, because that’s what makes God happy.” - Victoria Osteen

 

[fastfredy0]

Supposing, then, this were true...how ought you to feel with respect to it? Ought you not be willing to be damned?"

... so you are asking that if a Christian was asked to go to hell for eternity by God should he willingly, "Yes, I'll go" ??

Aside: of course this can't happen because a Christian is by definition one of God's sheep and God's loses none of His sheep ... .but ignore that minor detail (giggle) ... I've actually thought of this question

heck, I'm disobedient on earth so if there was ever a time I REALLY want to disobey it would be this time

Aside: Whereas I believe in double predestination and hard determinism ... seems God makes us (non-Christians) willing to go
Double predestination teaches that God proactively elects some to heaven and proactively elects some to hell

... you got any easy questions?

 

[Papa Smurf]

There is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. It seems to me that the rich man desperately wanted someone to warn his brothers: 27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
This implies strongly in my opinion that the "rich man" was unhappy with his situation.

Yes, the Rich Man was CLEARLY unhappy, but was he unhappy enough to want to live out eternity in the presence of God considering what that would still require of him That's something we may never know, and certainly not on this side of the grave! For what it's worth, I agree with you. As I said later in my post, it was a bizarre thought on my part (but I decided to ask you about it anyway ).

Again, the extreme proposal was used to measure one's love for one brother; granted, by a bizarre proposal.

... maybe more bizarre (very strange or unusual, especially in a striking or shocking way) is the idea that a perfect, all powerful God would take human form and let Himself be spat upon, flogged and tortured

NO ONE would have ever come up with that on their own (the manner/means of our atonement, redemption and salvation, that is). This is why I believe that of all of the Lord's attributes, the one that we may never truly/fully comprehend is the depth of is His love (I'm glad that we have an eternity before us to consider it, but even that may not be enough).

Also (and again), it was my thought about all of this that I found bizarre, not your proposal (which, just FYI, I am still considering and hope to get back to you about soon ).

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

 

[makesends]

You didn't vote...

Well, do I get to choose which 1,000,000 ?

 

[fastfredy0]

Well, do I get to choose which 1,000,000 ?

No, they are a random selection from your point of view.

Aside: I had a Part B to the question ... but I won't bother to ask.

Part B of the question is to put people you love on the line

Seems to me that God made some analogous requests:
He asked Abraham to kill his son
He asked His own Son whom He loved MOST to let Himself be tortured/killed so millions wouldn't go to hell. ... in other words, Jesus, if you let Yourself be tortured and killed than I (God) will take 100,000,000 people destined for hell and place them in heaven.

 

[makesends]

makesends said:
Well, do I get to choose which 1,000,000 ?

No, they are a random selection from your point of view.

Augh! Oh, well, then. I guess I'll have to trust God to make better choices than I would. But I really don't like a couple of them very much!

 

[atpollard]

Technically, if there are 1,000,000 unregenerated hearts in Heaven ... will there be much difference between Heaven and Hell in 10,000 years?
How much LEAVEN did it take to leaven the whole loaf?

 

[fastfredy0]

Technically, if there are 1,000,000 unregenerated hearts in Heaven ... will there be much difference between Heaven and Hell in 10,000 years?

Hmmm ... building a lot of assumptions on assumptions ....but, God is taking the regenerated people to heaven and I assume causing them to sin no more...so He could do the same with a 1,000,000 from hell. That being said, all those in heaven God regenerated so He could do the same with the 1M from hell ... I think the R.C.s call it purgatory (giggle)
In the end, God always gets His way.

 

[fastfredy0]

Augh! Oh, well, then. I guess I'll have to trust God to make better choices than I would.

OK... supplemental question for you.... You find out I am among the million and you can pick who you want. Do you point me?

... this might be a good time to offer a bribe ...