JOSEPH SMITH

[Rescued One]

"18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

"19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: 'they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.'

"20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy?"

Mormon scripture (Pearl of Great Price)

 

[Arial]

"18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

"19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: 'they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.'

"20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy?"

Mormon scripture (Pearl of Great Price)

Either completely manufactured or the "personages" were not from the Lord, but the enemy of the Lord. One has to wonder why he was looking for a sect to follow rather than what God himself taught in his word. And why he did not go to the word to ascertain if Presbyterianism or any of the creeds were false or true. Like the Reformers did----the ones who produced the creeds with Biblical support.

 

[makesends]

"18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

"19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: 'they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.'

"20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy?"

Mormon scripture (Pearl of Great Price)

I have heard similar statements from individuals on Christian Forums and other places. Should we enquire the 'Personages' which of those is telling the truth?

The older I get, though, it keeps being repeated, that, at least on the surface, false teachers are sincere, if mad, but since scripture presents them as being purposefully deceiving, I am more convinced than ever, that even unaware of their own purposes, the sinner's sin is on purpose. We say, 'he didn't mean to', or, we excuse him by other complaints, such as, "if God ordains all things, then what a sinner did not know is wrong, is not sin." I say, "No. He intended it, and does everything that he does, as contrary to God."

 

[Rescued One]

Either completely manufactured or the "personages" were not from the Lord, but the enemy of the Lord. One has to wonder why he was looking for a sect to follow rather than what God himself taught in his word. And why he did not go to the word to ascertain if Presbyterianism or any of the creeds were false or true. Like the Reformers did----the ones who produced the creeds with Biblical support.

He made several anti-Christian comments in their canonized scripture. Several members of his immediate family were Presbyterians; they all left and followed him as Mormons.

 

[Rescued One]

I can answer many questions. Their scriptures are Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and certain verses of the Bible. They accept the Bible "as far as translated correctly' and explained by their leaders.

 

[Rescued One]

Either completely manufactured or the "personages" were not from the Lord, but the enemy of the Lord. One has to wonder why he was looking for a sect to follow rather than what God himself taught in his word. And why he did not go to the word to ascertain if Presbyterianism or any of the creeds were false or true. Like the Reformers did----the ones who produced the creeds with Biblical support.

The "personages" he claimed were the father and son each with a resurrected body of flesh and bone. The holy ghost has only a spirit body. All non-Mormon churches are said to be "of the devil." As I explained, he didn't regard the Bible as the correctly translated word of God.

 

[Arial]

The "personages" he claimed were the father and son each with a resurrected body of flesh and bone. The holy ghost has only a spirit body. All non-Mormon churches are said to be "of the devil." As I explained, he didn't regard the Bible as the correctly translated word of God.

When did the Father die and need to be resurrected? It is amazing any got caught in his trap.

 

[Arial]

He made several anti-Christian comments in their canonized scripture. Several members of his immediate family were Presbyterians; they all left and followed him as Mormons.

Wow!

 

[Rella]

When did the Father die and need to be resurrected? It is amazing any got caught in his trap.

So true, but look what came out of his ramblings.

The Mormon Church that has beliefs and ideas that can only be related to a cult. And it is huge.

AS I have read a fair amount on Joseph Smith, it seems he became disenchanted with the "churches" of the day and sought to find out
from God which one was correct.

Eventually enters Moroni, a prophet , who eventually was called the Angel Moroni to give Joseph counselling ... present him the the golden tablets... that disappeared (story for another day) yet of interest there is no Angel Moroni in the Bible OR in the book of Enoch how listed I believe it was 7 of them by name.

But he must have been very charismatic to have the following that developed and continues to grow to this very day.

 

[Rescued One]

When did the Father die and need to be resurrected? It is amazing any got caught in his trap.

That teaching began in the early 1800's. Lots of ideas were flourishing: Campbellites, William Miller, Ellen White. Mormons convince you to join but keep strange teachings secret, and don't share those teachings in Sunday Services.

The teaching about the father being resurrected is not known by many; the elites know this. They have temple recommends and wear "temple garments" underneath their outer clothing.

If a person has time to read Doctrine and Covenants 130, he will read that the father has a body.

 

[Fred]

What I find interesting is how the Mormons are on record denying that the Lord Jesus is to be prayed to, but elsewhere they affirm it.

 

[Rescued One]

What I find interesting is how the Mormons are on record denying that the Lord Jesus is to be prayed to, but elsewhere they affirm it.

The supposed Nephites in the Book of Mormon prayed to Jesus.

 

[Fred]

The boldface below is mine.

3 Nephi 19:16-22
16 And it came to pass that he spake unto the multitude, and commanded them that they should kneel down again upon the earth, and also that his disciples should kneel down upon the earth.
17 And it came to pass that when they had all knelt down upon the earth, he commanded his disciples that they should pray.
18 And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God.
19 And it came to pass that Jesus departed out of the midst of them, and went a little way off from them and bowed himself to the earth, and he said:
20 Father, I thank thee that thou hast given the Holy Ghost unto these whom I have chosen; and it is because of their belief in me that I have chosen them out of the world.
21 Father, I pray thee that thou wilt give the Holy Ghost unto all them that shall believe in their words.
22 Father, thou hast given them the Holy Ghost because they believe in me; and thou seest that they believe in me because thou hearest them, and they pray unto me; and they pray unto me because I am with them.

Ensign: In 3 Nephi 19:16–30, however, we read that, when Jesus was in their immediate presence, his disciples prayed directly to him. Perhaps the key to this unusual behavior is found in verse 22, where Jesus explains that “they pray unto me because I am with them.” (Italics added.) Jesus made this comment while praying to the Father for the welfare of his disciples.
Apparently, on that occasion, while he was in their presence, praying to him was acceptable. After he left them, however, the Nephites continued the pattern of praying to the Father in Jesus’ name, as we are directed to do also. (See 3 Ne. 20:30–31; 3 Ne. 27:2, 28–29.) (Is it proper to pray to Jesus Christ?, June 1988)

 

[Rescued One]

Galatians1:6
6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

 

[Hazelelponi]

But he must have been very charismatic to have the following that developed and continues to grow to this very day.

I think it's Spiritual. Evil will always align against the truth.

Somewhere inside us, we know what we are, and what we are not. I knew at one point in my life that I was "from the foundation of the world their enemy", and the "they" knew it too.

I "knew" this and worded it exactly this way prior to ever being saved.

We know somehow that whenever we are deeply not something, we are deeply something else entirely.

As Scripture put it,
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." 1 John 2:19

We are all something by eternal decree, in the end.

When we find ourselves on this side of the gulf, we make our calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:10) because we were created to good works. (Ephesians 2:10) from the foundation.

Charisma is the one thing these people don't have, they are as slippery as snakes and as oily as snake oil salesmen.

What they have, is the same federal head, and the same desire to follow after evil, (and such were some of you...)

We can look now and say we were stupid fools, which indeed we were .. but we were there because at the time, our father wasn't God, and therefore it wasn't Christ we were listening to.

When we start listening to the right voice is when we are going in the right direction, towards salvation instead of running away to fight against it.

Psalm 2 The Reign of the Lord's Anointed

2 Why do the nations rage[a]
and the peoples plot in vain?
2
The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers take counsel together,
against the Lord and against his Anointed, saying,
3
“Let us burst their bonds apart
and cast away their cords from us.”

4
He who sits in the heavens laughs;
the Lord holds them in derision.
5
Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
and terrify them in his fury, saying,
6
“As for me, I have set my King
on Zion, my holy hill.”

7
I will tell of the decree:
The Lord said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.
8
Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession.
9
You shall break them with a rod of iron
and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.”

10
Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
be warned, O rulers of the earth.
11
Serve the Lord with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
12
Kiss the Son,
lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
for his wrath is quickly kindled.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

 

[Rescued One]

I became a Mormon and left many years later. Fred's post should be deleted. It defends Mormonism by use of their magazine article. If they pray to two gods, that is evil and their religion doesn't allow prayers to Jesus at this time.

 

[Rescued One]

I'm sorry, Fred. You come/came across as a Mormon by using their magazine Ensign as a defense of praying to Jesus when he is physically in their presence. Their 3 gods are separate personages. If their father god is not present and they pray to their jesus god, how is that okay? They never pray to holy ghost god. None of the three gods are visible today, but they are told to pray to the father god.

 

[Josheb]

"18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

"19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: 'they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.'

"20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy?"

Mormon scripture (Pearl of Great Price)

If Joseph Smit ever read his Bible....

Galatians 1:6-9
I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

2 Corinthians 11:3-6
But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully. For I consider myself not in the least inferior to the most eminent apostles. But even if I am unskilled in speech, yet I am not so in knowledge; in fact, in every way we have made this evident to you in all things.

1 Timothy 6:3-5
If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.


Then he knew what he was doing, and he knew it was not from God. That means he was not just a false teacher. He was a liar, a knowing liar who knowingly lied.


And..... not meaning to take the conversation far afield of the topic of Joseph Smith, all of the new sects that arose in the 19th century Restoration Movement strayed from scripture and orthodoxy in some way or another, small or large. I, therefore, encourage anyone with any such affiliation to critically examine what s/he's been taught, applying 2 Timothy 3:16-17 everywhere in-house. Huge, sweeping changes happened in 1800s' Christendom and, while some of it managed to remain within what is historically orthodox, much did not. Joseph Smith was one of many religious leaders who took Christian thought, doctrine, and practice away from well-rendered scripture. He was among the most egregious of heretics.

 

[Rescued One]

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13,

Nephi sees in vision the church of the devil set up among the Gentiles, the discovery and colonizing of America, the loss of many plain and precious parts of the Bible, the resultant state of gentile apostasy, the restoration of the gospel, the coming forth of latter-day scripture, and the building up of Zion. About 600–592 B.C.

God didn't give him faith to BELIEVE the Bible!

 

[Arial]

I became a Mormon and left many years later. Fred's post should be deleted. It defends Mormonism by use of their magazine article. If they pray to two gods, that is evil and their religion doesn't allow prayers to Jesus at this time.

I'm sorry, Fred. You come/came across as a Mormon by using their magazine Ensign as a defense of praying to Jesus when he is physically in their presence.

Rescued,
Just a heads up on posting rules. @Fred has neither denied nor confirmed that his is a Mormon. He may have just been quoting a Mormon teaching to show from their own words what they both teach and deny at the same time, in relation to his post #11, and not as support for them. Only he can clarify and it would be good if he did so as to stop unnecessary confusion. In the meantime, keep posts about the post and not the poster.

If he confirms Mormonism, then by all means, refute the claims with biblical support.
Thanks.