"I've Never Been Happier"

[EarlyActs]

I have put this thread in apologetics because, truly, if this were the essential discovery of a person about Christian faith, we might need to explain a bit more! We might not be defending Christian faith so much as starting at the beginning.

But that might be the thing about defending it: that it actually has a beginning, and that the person speaking is not there, yet.

The person I'm referring to is a post at Youtube at Hillsong's You Are My World album "Emmanuel" song. Today the most recent post is "I've been an atheist all my life, but I gave my heart to Christ, and I've never been happier."

In statements like this which are used all over the market place, it is always assumed that the ability of a person to assess their happiness is intact. Well, in my experience of many kinds of people, I have found that this is not the case. So I suggest a discount on this line from that.

2nd, the climax of the 3 part line is that they gave their life to Christ. Not to be picky here, but I think we have an expression which is not quite true to reality. What I mean is that they a person can decide about a present moment, but they can't decide about a future moment until they get there. There was a parable about this. One man claimed to be willing to do everything for God but when he got 'there,' he was not to be found. Instead another person, who was asked to do the same task, showed up, and Jesus said the latter was the believer.

I'm not quite sure where the pastoral practice got started. I'm sure that it is important to be committed, but this is a dilemma, not a solution. You could say it was modeled after marriage, in which case, if we are to trust timeless wisdom and some of our culture's novels, a huge set of questions should be explored and explained.

The interesting comparison, though, is that we have some moments in the disciples lives when they vowed more commitment, but then the resurrection happens and 40 days of seminar teaching, and when they speak after that, it is far more about the substantial facts of Christian faith than the person's vow. There are no vows. We even are treated to Peter who made the most substantial vow and broke it. It seems that vow making and breaking were off the table when early Christian teaching took place.

My point here, is that we have not got to theological truth yet. And so we have a person like that who is also very happy.

Yes, I do think that an outright pagan can experience a surge of being reconnected to the Father, like a reunion of a human family that wanted to be together. Those who are atheist around us often speak of the dreariness of life. Which also, by the way, makes them candidates to take up anything with a trace of happiness to it.

What I mean is that the bottom line of the 3 part direction is that the person is happy. But I had a friend at Bible college no less, who, when the year ended, said 'I simply don't get the Christian message about Christ. I think God is great, but I have no idea why Christ came and did anything that we've been hearing about.' He was an artist, and gifted that way, and there was actually a fair amount of happiness in terms of recognition of his skills. I hope you can see from this counter-example where I am going.

The Christian message, to stay simple, is not a measure we can use in our experience. To counter the line found on Youtube, it would go something like this. The God who has always been there made a place, sort of like a home, for mankind, but there was a serious misuse of one of the nicer things there, and mankind was condemned. Yet at the same time, He promised to provide something 'in which all the families or nations of earth would be blessed.' And that was a gift that justified all those people so that God could be happy.

The God who is there and is King is now happy that a restitution has been made. And with that you have actually entered the Christian faith, and in fact, you hardly need to go beyond that, except to let other people know that 'in the Seed (Christ) all the nations of the earth would be blessed'--through that same gift of justification from our sins.

 

[EarlyActs]

Along these same lines, we have Bono (U2):

You carried the cross, of my shame, of all my shame
You know I believe it
But I still haven't found what I'm looking for.

Would you say, having read those lyrics, that he actually has the Christian message? Or does he have a happiness problem, and the Hillsong post-er had a happiness problem, which he thought was solved by 'the Gospel.'

 

[makesends]

I have put this thread in apologetics because, truly, if this were the essential discovery of a person about Christian faith, we might need to explain a bit more! We might not be defending Christian faith so much as starting at the beginning.

But that might be the thing about defending it: that it actually has a beginning, and that the person speaking is not there, yet.

The person I'm referring to is a post at Youtube at Hillsong's You Are My World album "Emmanuel" song. Today the most recent post is "I've been an atheist all my life, but I gave my heart to Christ, and I've never been happier."

In statements like this which are used all over the market place, it is always assumed that the ability of a person to assess their happiness is intact. Well, in my experience of many kinds of people, I have found that this is not the case. So I suggest a discount on this line from that.

Kinda reminds me of something I noticed in my teens, that anyone who stands up to give their 'salvation' testimony, or any testimony, for that matter, needs to make it sound like they had some problems, but now they've finally got it together. "Now I finally understand...". It used to drive me crazy, that when someone was hurting and needed the Lord to hold them, those to whom they came for help handed them "how to" instructions.

Just today on another site, I found myself writing in response to an old thread that got regurgitated for a new chewing of the cud, something along the lines that the theme of the OP was one of many reasons to believe that we are only what God has in mind concerning us, and whatever he has in mind to use us for. What we are is in the mind of God —not ours. (But, I know, I will forget that 5 min from now, no matter how close to the truth it is.)

2nd, the climax of the 3 part line is that they gave their life to Christ. Not to be picky here, but I think we have an expression which is not quite true to reality. What I mean is that they a person can decide about a present moment, but they can't decide about a future moment until they get there. There was a parable about this. One man claimed to be willing to do everything for God but when he got 'there,' he was not to be found. Instead another person, who was asked to do the same task, showed up, and Jesus said the latter was the believer.

I'm not quite sure where the pastoral practice got started. I'm sure that it is important to be committed, but this is a dilemma, not a solution. You could say it was modeled after marriage, in which case, if we are to trust timeless wisdom and some of our culture's novels, a huge set of questions should be explored and explained.

The interesting comparison, though, is that we have some moments in the disciples lives when they vowed more commitment, but then the resurrection happens and 40 days of seminar teaching, and when they speak after that, it is far more about the substantial facts of Christian faith than the person's vow. There are no vows. We even are treated to Peter who made the most substantial vow and broke it. It seems that vow making and breaking were off the table when early Christian teaching took place.

Living IN HIM seems to me to replace the uselessness of attempted achievement. There we find the covenant he has made with us, no longer approaching God through the law, but God with us by grace alone.

My point here, is that we have not got to theological truth yet. And so we have a person like that who is also very happy.

Yes, I do think that an outright pagan can experience a surge of being reconnected to the Father, like a reunion of a human family that wanted to be together. Those who are atheist around us often speak of the dreariness of life. Which also, by the way, makes them candidates to take up anything with a trace of happiness to it.

Agreed. Once I read a sci-fi book and I wish I had kept a copy for referring back to it, where some protagonist has escaped the bonds of the material and of time, and meets the Creator, (whom he considers to be like a child learning about Himself and discovering newness all the time) and finds himself 'worshiping' him for his greatness and power and beauty and the purity of simplicity alone, but not for what the Bible has us to worship him for —his grace and love, and the boundless 'amplification' of that upon all his other attributes. In other words, that guy had no clue, except to recognize that he wasn't, and could not be, that god.

What I mean is that the bottom line of the 3 part direction is that the person is happy. But I had a friend at Bible college no less, who, when the year ended, said 'I simply don't get the Christian message about Christ. I think God is great, but I have no idea why Christ came and did anything that we've been hearing about.' He was an artist, and gifted that way, and there was actually a fair amount of happiness in terms of recognition of his skills. I hope you can see from this counter-example where I am going.

The Christian message, to stay simple, is not a measure we can use in our experience. To counter the line found on Youtube, it would go something like this. The God who has always been there made a place, sort of like a home, for mankind, but there was a serious misuse of one of the nicer things there, and mankind was condemned. Yet at the same time, He promised to provide something 'in which all the families or nations of earth would be blessed.' And that was a gift that justified all those people so that God could be happy.

The God who is there and is King is now happy that a restitution has been made. And with that you have actually entered the Christian faith, and in fact, you hardly need to go beyond that, except to let other people know that 'in the Seed (Christ) all the nations of the earth would be blessed'--through that same gift of justification from our sins.

I'm not sure if that narrative is there for us to consider, that lacks the core of Salvation, or just what. (For example, "God...is now happy that restitution has been made" implies that there was a point at which he was not happy, which denies his transcendence. After all, he is not what he is (or how he is) as a result of what his creation does or has done. He has always been happy and completely satisfied with the 'works of his hands.'

But that we don't yet see it doesn't mean it isn't so.

The implication, then, is that we are not here for our own sake, but for his, and THERE is where we find happiness and satisfaction. We were made for him, and not for ourselves.

 

[makesends]

they gave their life to Christ. Not to be picky here, but I think we have an expression which is not quite true to reality. What I mean is that they a person can decide about a present moment, but they can't decide about a future moment until they get there. There was a parable about this. One man claimed to be willing to do everything for God but when he got 'there,' he was not to be found. Instead another person, who was asked to do the same task, showed up, and Jesus said the latter was the believer.

And so, still, or again, What we are is in the mind of God—not in ours.

He is the one who made this. No matter our efforts, we are passengers.

It is GOD who works in us both to will and to do of his purposes.