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Is it sin to park in the clergy's parking space?

Are you suggesting that a "Reserved for Clergy" sign is an unscriptural rule?
Technically, it is …

[Matthew 20:25-28 NIV] 25 Jesus called them together and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave-- 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

[Matthew 23:5-12 NIV] 5 "Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called 'Rabbi' by others. 8 "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

… but all your other points seemed valid.
 
Granted. But how is that relevant? Are you suggesting that a "Reserved for Clergy" sign is an unscriptural rule?




Well, for one thing, several of those assumptions you listed were not involved in my post or my thinking (e.g., "total disregard for the pastor"). So, "a lot of assumptions were being made" but not by me.

For another thing, I was making a lot more inferences than assumptions. For example, you said that you were there to buy books, that it would take about 15 minutes, and that you were willing to take the chance that the aforementioned clergy would not arrive within that time. From this, I inferred that you parked when and where you did as a matter of convenience (which is about you)—for you could have parked elsewhere and walked the extra distance, or even returned to this fundraising sale to try again later, alternatives that wouldn't be as convenient as this. I also inferred from your opening post (OP) that you saw the sign and knew what it meant. Inferences are not assumptions, Josh.

Inferences can be wrong, of course, and if they are it's on you to indicate where and how—I can't know an inference is mistaken unless and until you tell me—but it would be less than rational to say something like, "Don't infer that my motives were selfish." You can't reasonably tell someone to not draw an inference.

And the reason why I inferred a self-centered motive is because nothing in your OP indicated that your choice was for anyone else's benefit. You wanted to stop then and there, check out some books and probably buy some, and this parking spot was the only one available at the time. (Please observe that I didn't say it was "entirely" self-centered. You may have had secondary or tertiary motives but they were not included in your OP—the only thing to which I had access.)




I neither assumed nor inferred a "total" disregard for the property rules on your part. Your OP indicated a disregard for an express property rule and I accepted that at face value. My response neither universalized the disregard nor needed to.

(I have noticed a tendency in your objections to deflect criticism by misrepresenting it in order to say it doesn't apply. For example, I criticize something as selfish and you respond by saying, "You shouldn't assume it was entirely selfish." But I never said it was "entirely" selfish. And here we have another example: I never said it was a "total" disregard for the rules. Please represent my criticisms accurately when addressing them.)




What justification exists in your scenario to second-guess the meaning or intent of the no-parking sign? There was none. If the elderly woman had acquiesced to your logic, or if the aforementioned clergy had been called and agreed with you, that would serve as such a justification. But as the facts on the ground stand (given in your OP), the sign and its intent was unambiguous.




See? Here, again, we have this exaggerated language ("demanding"). If there is a pastor demanding his space at the expense of an addict or a couple in need, we have no evidence that it's at this church. (For example, do you know for a fact that they don't cover the sign during AA meetings?)

All we have here is a church that reserves a parking spot for its clergy, a priority which everyone appeared to be honoring—until you.




Was she? Did she? If so, you should have included that information because it would completely change my answer.

If she wasn't and she didn't, then it's irrelevant.




I am noticing your interesting word choice there ("might"). Which scenario do you think is more likely? Give your reasoning.

Woman: "You can't park there. It's reserved for the pastor."

You: "I know. She invited me to come and told me I can park in her spot."
  1. Woman: [Becomes distressed, anticipates tension with the pastor.]
  2. Woman: "She did? Sorry, carry on." [Thinks nothing more of it.]
  3. Woman: "She did? Sorry, carry on." [Goes to call pastor, who confirms.]
  4. Woman: "She did? Wait here while I confirm." [Goes to call pastor, who confirms.]



Two things.

First, Romans 13 cannot be pressed into service here. Paul is speaking of civil magistrates, a context evidenced by his reference to penal power, public justice, and taxation (vv. 4-7). Scripture addresses other spheres of authority elsewhere (church, family, employers, etc.), and how we are to treat our neighbors versus the family of God. To flatten all authority under Romans 13 is exegetically careless.

Second, given the relevance of scripture for defining sin, what does it say about putting oneself ahead of others? As I said earlier, "Christian ethics is not utilitarian (outcome-based)"—so the likelihood of the pastor showing up is irrelevant—"but aretaic and teleological; the standard is not outcomes but Christ-centered obedience and the formation of Christ-like character." Do your words and conduct in that scenario lean toward or away from Christ's pattern of self-sacrifice, emptying himself for others (Rom. 15:1-3; Phil. 2:5–8)? The sign is incidental; what matters is how you responded to the church's rule and that elderly woman—who you call an accuser (so the self-justifying tone is also notable.) By your own admission, you deliberately disregarded the sign. It was a willful choice to elevate personal convenience above the stated wishes and priorities of the stewards entrusted with the property.

A general caution: To reduce sin to an explicit statutory violation would be inadequate and inconsistent with scripture. Think of the Sermon on the Mount, where Christ exposed such reductive thinking by equating lustful thoughts with committing adultery. Yes, hamartia is "lawlessness" (1 John 3:4), but the law is more than the Ten Commandments—it is the whole covenantal will of God (Rom. 13:8–10). Consider the contrast between the letter versus the spirit of obedience.




The question concerned what you did and whether it was sinful, not what she did.




I think that speaks for itself. Nothing more needs to be said.
Not "suggesting" it. I am openly stating it unabashedly without reservation - and have already explained why. Please re-read the posts so I don't have to unnecessarily re-post already-posted content.
 
Or—and hear me out, now—what if he had parked somewhere inconvenient for him (in deference to their wishes and priorities) and walked the extra distance to the fundraising sale?
That would be ideal, but is too site specific to comment on. Thinking of the last three churches that I have attended, had all the spaces been full except the “pastor” space,
  • in one case, your proposal would have required parking at the restaurant next door and walking across the parking lot.
  • In one case, your proposal would have required parking in the grass along the road and walking across the parking lot.
  • In two cases, your proposal would have required parking in another business and walking down the shoulder of the highway to the church driveway and then across the church parking lot (which aside from being dangerous, would potentially have been illegal parking subject to being towed).
So, it is too situationally dependent for me to make a “universal” rule. For me, I would have parked inconveniently in the first case and either in the only empty space or not at all in the last three cases (although I would have been inclined towards “not at all” … but that is just my threshold for conflict).
 
Not "suggesting" it. I am openly stating it unabashedly without reservation - and have already explained why. Please re-read the posts so I don't have to unnecessarily re-post already-posted content.

I can't, for you didn't even bother to provide a link. (You have made multiple posts.) If you want someone to read an argument you've already made, show them where it was.
 
I would have parked inconveniently in the first case, and either in the only empty space or not at all in the last three cases (although I would have been inclined towards “not at all,” but that is just my threshold for conflict).

I guess even your examples are too situationally specific to comment on. For example, parking at a restaurant or office supply store next door could also violate a property rule, as they sometimes have signs that say "For Chick-fil-A customers only" or something like that.

But there were other options available to Josh, some of which I had listed. For example, he could have observed there were no parking spaces available to him and returned later when it was less busy. Or he could have acquiesced to the elderly lady and idled nearby, watching the parking lot and pulling in the moment he saw someone getting in their car to leave (which is what I tend to do in similar situations). Hazel made a good suggestion, too—another one I would have opted for—which was to have his wife drop him off and return later for him.
 
I can't, for you didn't even bother to provide a link. (You have made multiple posts.) If you want someone to read an argument you've already made, show them where it was.
No. It's not the responsibility of any poster to facilitate everyone else's reading. Each of us has the ability to choose what we read and whether to post possessing all of the facts of all of the posts, or not. You've chosen not to read all the posts, and you've chosen to post accordingly. You've also chosen to refuse to read all the posts despite the fact matters you've broached have already been addressed and it would benefit you and everyone else if you had read the posts before posting and/or read the posts once realizing your mistake. If you do not want to read all the posts then don't, but under no circumstances is it appropriate for you to attempt shifting that responsibility onto anyone else.

What you should have posted is either,

"My bad. I'll go back and read through the thread," (it would entail reading two posts, 4 and 5, that's all)

or

"My bad. Would you mind linking me to the posts containing the relevant information I missed."

Try either the next time someone asks you to read the thread because you didn't and posted mistakes directly related to that lack. Do it before assuming to make judgmental inferences because it will help you avoid making the kind of mistakes already in evidence. Do it because, avoiding those mistakes, the entire discussion is positively served.

Besides, all you'd have had to read was two posts of mine into the thread. The relevant information had been provided before you ever entered the thread. It could have been obtained in less time than it took to write Post 24! I'd ask whether or not irony is recognized but with so much adversely mistaken assumptions and inferences and hypocritical use of scripture on record, I've no more interest in your pov. Fix all that dross and I'll reconsider.
 
I guess even your examples are too situationally specific to comment on. For example, parking at a restaurant or office supply store next door could also violate a property rule, as they sometimes have signs that say "For Chick-fil-A customers only" or something like that.

But there were other options available to Josh, some of which I had listed. For example, he could have observed there were no parking spaces available to him and returned later when it was less busy. Or he could have acquiesced to the elderly lady and idled nearby, watching the parking lot and pulling in the moment he saw someone getting in their car to leave (which is what I tend to do in similar situations). Hazel made a good suggestion, too—another one I would have opted for—which was to have his wife drop him off and return later for him.
I thought the question of the OP was about the woman saying his parking in the clergy parking spot was a sin. And was she correct in saying it was a sin?

How did all these hypotheticals about the poster's motives and options enter into the conversation? And why did they become the conversation without ever answering the question? (As far as I know, no one presenting the hypothetical motives and options answered the question. I haven't read all of them as it pretty much seemed like wind masquerading as intellect. Note the word seemed like, which is not saying it was but how it struck me. If I am wrong and the question was answered, I apologize.)
 
It's 9:15 a.m. Saturday morning at the local United Methodist Church at a little beach resort town (although I suppose this could have happened at any denominational, liturgical place of worship), and a book sale is being held, taking the opportunity to exploit the increased Labor Day weekend traffic. The small parking lot is packed except for one space. That space has a sign stating, "Reserved for Clergy."

Would you park there?

Having parked there I get out of the car and an elderly woman stops and informs me I cannot park there because the sign says the space is reserved for the pastor. I ask, "Do you think the pastor will be coming to the book sale?" Stunned for a moment at the question, the woman responds she does not know but that is immaterial because the sign says the space is reserved solely for clergy. I respond by saying I am willing to take the chance the pastor will not be coming to the book sale in the fifteen minutes I'll be in there buying books. She then tells me I am sinning because I am deliberately disobeying the sign.

At which point my wife lovingly encourages me to ignore the woman (although she did not use the word "ignore").

I came and went, having purchased more than a dozen books, in and out in less than fifteen minutes. Never saw the pastor.


Was I sinning?
No.
 
I can only speak about facts I know here in Canada. Our speed limits are not guides but commandments: they literally say "90 km/h maximum," for example. When you are pulled over for speeding, the ticket will say "speed against highway sign" or "excessive speed" (depending on how much greater your rate of speed was). Either way, the sign states the "maximum" rate of speed permitted and you can be charged with exceeding it.




That is not the case here. If you are exceeding the maximum posted speed limit, you can be ticketed. If you are within the posted limit (i.e., not exceeding it), you literally cannot be ticketed. It would be improper enforcement (and thus invalid) for a police officer to ticket you for impeding traffic when you were maintaining the posted limit.

You can be ticketed for impeding the normal, reasonable flow of traffic, though, if you're driving too slow and don't allow people to pass you.




That elderly woman had a problem with it. And it is unwarranted and unfair to call her legalistic and contentious when there are other, more charitable possibilities first (like respectful or deferential).
I didn't smart-mouth her, lol. I explained my situation, and she would not relent. Although, toward the end, if I remember right, at some point I did make the remark that if it was her apartment I was working in, she would be happy for me to be able to take my tools in, instead of just giving up and leaving.

BTW I see I said the others 'would' have a problem with it. I meant, they 'wouldn't'.
 
The problem is no one is scripturally required to obey unscriptural rules.
Well, technically, I think you're wrong.

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Romans 13:1.
 
Josheb has chosen to cease engaging me, a decision I will respect because I was going to do the same in this post.

Why? Because apart from the gaslighting, deflections, burden-shifting, and multiple violations of the rules—yes, I hit the Report button—there was little else to address. For example, he asserts that my inferences were incorrect but doesn't explain how, yet described it as sort of audacious that my inferences were drawn from what his OP said; somehow that's about explaining my conduct through another's, as he clumsily put it, which he then used to suggest I avoided "personal responsibility, accountability, and any culpability that might exist"—definitely a flair for rhetorical overkill.

I am therefore content to let the merits of my posts stand as published.

As an aside? I can scarcely believe he actually said, "It is always best not to assume or infer things about others [that] we cannot know."

Amazing.

Edited to add:
I have no idea what the church intended/intends when it posted that sign and neither does anyone else.

Um ... <raises hand> ... I have an idea about what they intended: to reserve that spot for clergy. It wasn't ambiguous.
 
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I thought the question of the OP was about the woman saying his parking in the clergy parking spot was a sin. And was she correct in saying it was a sin?

How did all these hypotheticals about the poster's motives and options enter into the conversation? And why did they become the conversation without ever answering the question? (As far as I know, no one presenting the hypothetical motives and options answered the question. I haven't read all of them, as it pretty much seemed like wind masquerading as intellect. Note the word seemed like, which is not saying it was but how it struck me. If I am wrong and the question was answered, I apologize.)

It was answered by a few of the participants, including me. They said it was not a sin, I said it was (but a minor one). And we each explained our answers.

How the hypotheticals entered the discussion also has an explanation, but it would be meta and a digression to unpack all that.
 
Well, technically, I think you're wrong.
So you think a person is required to obey unscriptural rules? Do please make that case.
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Romans 13:1.
Have the commentaries on Romans 13 presented already been read? Where in Romans 13 did Paul exhort obedience to unscriptural rules? And are you prepared to follow the application of Romans 13 to the circumstances of Paul's day (like Christians supporting a variety of Jewish, Roman, and pagan religious practices)?
 
Was I sinning?
I would say YES. My reasoning: This is a privately owned entity and they can create whatever rules they like. You did not respect these private property rights which I assume are supported by civil laws. Disobeying government officials who in turn create civil laws is found in the bible which adds more fuel to the fire. Romans 13:1-2, which states, "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God".
Similarly, when I go to a shopping plaza and the parking lot is nearly full and there are 10 spots for handicapped people and those are all empty. I often want to take one.

That being said, I would not classify this as a "mortal sin" so your salvation is not in jeopardy. (added comment for humor)

I am sympathetic to your reasoning.
 
If you're going faster than me, then you're speeding.
I've gotten about 5 speeding tickets. What's your count?
My dad has the family record of being caught going 92 in a 50 mph zone.
 
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