If it's True That Justification by Faith ...

[brightfame52]

Even in YOUR arrangement, they are not the same. If Justification declares one righteous, then Justification and Righteousness are not the same thing.

I dont see how you come up with that logic. Justification declares one righteous because of imputed righteousness. You can say Imputed righteousness declares one Justified, its the same.

I even showed how the terms are used interchangeably here Isa 53:11

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. kjv

Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see[fn] and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities. esv

See that ? This is not that difficult

 

[makesends]

I dont see how you come up with that logic. Justification declares one righteous because of imputed righteousness. You can say Imputed righteousness declares one Justified, its the same.

I even showed how the terms are used interchangeably here Isa 53:11

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. kjv

Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see[fn] and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities. esv

See that ? This is not that difficult

The logic is simple. If one causes the other, then they are not the same. Would you say that Justification is Salvation? That the saved are always justified does not make the one thing the same as the other.

By way of example: If my success at something makes me feel proud, it doesn't mean that pride and success are the same thing.

 

[Eleanor]

They are the same,

Actually, they are not.

Justification declares one righteous.

No . .justification declares one "not guilty," acquitted, sin remitted.
The absence of sin is not righteousness, it's just sinlessness.
Righteousness must then be imputed (Ro 1:17, 3:21, 4:5, Php 3:9) to be righteous.

 

[Arial]

I dont see how you come up with that logic. Justification declares one righteous because of imputed righteousness. You can say Imputed righteousness declares one Justified, its the same.

Faith declares one justified (and that is not of yourselves but is a gift of grace (Eph 2:8-9).
Romans 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Imputed Righteousness
Phil 3:9 And be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith---
Romans 3:21-22 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it----there righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe.

It is God who declares one justified. Not imputed righteousness. And not justification. Both the imputed righteousness and the justification come through/from faith in the person and work of Christ. Through faith given by the Holy Spirit in regeneration, the substitutionary work of Christ is applied to the person. That is the union with Christ, the "In Christ".

Therefore, a person is not justified until that happens.

I even showed how the terms are used interchangeably here Isa 53:11

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. kjv

Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see[fn] and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities. esv

That passage does not use the words imputed righteousness and justification interchangeably. It is two different translations. Justification for the believer is the result of Christ's work on the cross satisfying God's justice against sin. That is why his righteousness can be imputed to the believer. But this scripture does not deal with how or when this work of Christ is applied to the believer. We learn that in the NT. Through faith.

 

[brightfame52]

The logic is simple. If one causes the other, then they are not the same. Would you say that Justification is Salvation? That the saved are always justified does not make the one thing the same as the other.

By way of example: If my success at something makes me feel proud, it doesn't mean that pride and success are the same thing.

One doesnt cause the other, Christ causes them both. I cant for the world see why this is difficult for you guys to see.

 

[brightfame52]

@Arial

That passage does not use the words imputed righteousness

It doesnt have to use it, we know from other scripture righteousness is imputed Rom 4:6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Thats how and why God declares one righteous or Justified.

Bible hub says of righteousness in Rom 4:6 its the greek word dikaiosuné: and its word origin is
Word Origin: [from G1342 (δίκαιος - righteous)]

1. equity (of character or act)

2. (specially) Christian justification

The word 1342 is translated Just as in Justified or righteous. In Rom 1:17 its Just as the just shall live by faith, but in Rom 5:19 the word is righteous. Same word !

 

[Arial]

@Arial



It doesnt have to use it, we know from other scripture righteousness is imputed Rom 4:6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Thats how and why God declares one righteous or Justified.

Bible hub says of righteousness in Rom 4:6 its the greek word dikaiosuné: and its word origin is
Word Origin: [from G1342 (δίκαιος - righteous)]

1. equity (of character or act)

2. (specially) Christian justification

The word 1342 is translated Just as in Justified or righteous. In Rom 1:17 its Just as the just shall live by faith, but in Rom 5:19 the word is righteous. Same word !

I am not disputing imputed righteousness, so using my whole sentence in your responses would avoid changing the subject. My full sentence and its context:

That passage does not use the words imputed righteousness and justification interchangeably. It is two different translations. Justification for the believer is the result of Christ's work on the cross satisfying God's justice against sin. That is why his righteousness can be imputed to the believer. But this scripture does not deal with how or when this work of Christ is applied to the believer. We learn that in the NT. Through faith.

So how about sticking to the subject and responding to what I said?

 

[Arial]

I cant for the world see why this is difficult for you guys to see.

It is more than difficult to see, it is impossible, because what you say is not there. Why can't you see that when we show you what is there? That't the question. Still. 368 posts later.

 

[brightfame52]

I am not disputing imputed righteousness, so using my whole sentence in your responses would avoid changing the subject. My full sentence and its context:

So how about sticking to the subject and responding to what I said?

I disagree with just about everything you post on this subject. And your disagreement with me tells you why. I dont need to address every point of yours. And im sticking to the subject