If it's True That Justification by Faith ...

[Eleanor]

I've already explained myself, read my posts. Now by unlearned I mean something not yet learned. Its clear to me that righteousness and Justification are one, and I showed why.

Faith, salvation, justification, imputation of Christ's righteosness are also "one," but none are "the same."

 

[Eleanor]

Its the same truth, and this sounds unlearned

That's what I was thinking about your failure to apprehend that two different things being the same truth do not make them the same thing.

Pushing a pillow off a fifth-floor balcony won't get you in the slammer, but pushing a person will.

 

[Eleanor]

. . .

 

[brightfame52]

According to Paul, we are justified (declaration of "not guilty," sentence of acquittal, pronouncement of sin's remission) by faith (Ro 3:28).

Justification is the result of faith (Ro 3:28), while righteousness is the result of the imputation of Christ's righteosness (Ro 1:17, 3:21, 4:5, Php 3:9).

Justification and righteousness are one

 

[brightfame52]

@Arial

Through faith. No one is justified until he is placed in Christ the Justifier.

The elect had a eternal union in Christ before the world began Eph 1:4 and they had a legal union with Him when He died for them on the cross. When I say union it means in Him, just like they had a legal union in Adam when he sinned. The elect had no faith at all when they were Justified by Christ/Blood, in fact for the most part they had not yet existed in the flesh. Now once they are vitally connected to Him by the New Birth they are given the Gift of Faith which gives them sensibility, understanding of their Justification, then they are Justified through Faith. I have been explaining this for months now.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith, salvation, justification, imputation of Christ's righteosness are also "one," but none are "the same."

righteousness and Justification are one. In fact Isa 53:11
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities KJV
another version reads:
Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see[fn] and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities. ESV

As a result of the anguish of His soul, He shall see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge [of what He has accomplished] the Righteous One, My Servant, shall justify the many [making them righteous—upright before God, in right standing with Him], For He shall bear [the responsibility for] their sins. AMP

Gill writes on 1 Cor 1:30

and righteousness. He is the "author" of righteousness; he has wrought out and brought in one for them, which is well pleasing to God, satisfying to his justice, by which his law is magnified and made honourable; which justifies from all sin, and discharges from all condemnation, is everlasting, and will answer for them in a time to come; this he has brought in by the holiness of his nature, the obedience of his life, and by his sufferings and death: and which is "subjectively" in him, not in themselves; nor does it lie in any thing wrought in them, or done by them; but in him as their head and representative, who by "imputation" is made righteousness to them; and they the same way are made the righteousness of God in him; or in other words, this righteousness, by an act of the Father's grace, is imputed, reckoned, and accounted to them as their justifying righteousness: 1 Corinthians 1:30 Commentaries: But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

 

[brightfame52]

That's what I was thinking about your failure to apprehend that two different things being the same truth do not make them the same thing.

Pushing a pillow off a fifth-floor balcony won't get you in the slammer, but pushing a person will.

They are the same, Justification declares one righteous.

 

[Arial]

@Arial


The elect had a eternal union in Christ before the world began Eph 1:4 and they had a legal union with Him when He died for them on the cross. When I say union it means in Him, just like they had a legal union in Adam when he sinned. The elect had no faith at all when they were Justified by Christ/Blood, in fact for the most part they had not yet existed in the flesh. Now once they are vitally connected to Him by the New Birth they are given the Gift of Faith which gives them sensibility, understanding of their Justification, then they are Justified through Faith. I have been explaining this for months now.

The elect did not have an eternal union with Christ before the world began, and that is not what Eph 1:4 says at all. They had an eternal destination before the world began. Pre: before, destined: guaranteed to arrive at a particular destination.
I, and countless others have been saying this for months.

What you say above is that the elect are connected (joined) to him by the New birth, and this is true. But at the same time you also say they were in him before the foundation of the world. That is a contradiction. Someone is not in something until they are in whatever that something is---they the case someone.

Another mistake you make above is saying that they had no faith when they "were justified by Christ/Blood". That is a blatant contradiction of the Bible. Gal 2:15-16 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works for the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Romans 5:1-2 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.

And since you have misapplied Eph 1:4, let's put it into its context so it can be applied right. Eph 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

It says exactly what I said it says at the beginning of this post. It says nothing about actually being justified before we are born or being justified without faith.

 

[Eleanor]

They are the same, Justification declares one righteous.

No, justification declares remission of sin, freedom from guilt, neither of which is righteousness, just sinlessness (clean slate).

Righteousness must then be imputed (Ro 1:17, 3:21, 4:5, Php 3:9) in order to be righteous.

 

[brightfame52]

@Arial

The elect did not have an eternal union with Christ before the world began

They did, in Christ their Head when Grace was given them 2 Tim 1:9

9 ;Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

 

[brightfame52]

No, justification declares remission of sin, freedom from guilt, neither of which is righteousness, just sinlessness (clean slate).

Righteousness must then be imputed (Ro 1:17, 3:21, 4:5, Php 3:9) in order to be righteous.

Ive showed you enough scripture

 

[Eleanor]

Ive showed you enough scripture

Feel free to address (imputed) righteusness by God in Ro 1:17, 3:21, 4:5, Php 3:9.

 

[Arial]

@Arial



They did, in Christ their Head when Grace was given them 2 Tim 1:9

9 ;Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

You really should stop pulling scriptures and portions of sentence out of their context to support your pre-faith justification. That passage in it context is not even dealing with justification but our calling, and our (the believer) being in Christ. The grace is in Christ Jesus and the work that he did for us. It is in no way saying that we were in union with him before we were even born.

Now, instead of just repeating yourself, for the sake of a new direction that the thread might take that involves what others say and not just your voice (and before it gets locked because of your non stop repetition and your failure to address any other voices but your own) how are you going to refute what I said in post #328, and how do you support your statement that we are justified before we ever come to faith, given the scriptures from Gal and Eph that I gave in that post? And I mean refute, not just contradict.

 

[Arial]

Ive showed you enough scripture

Yeah? Well Armininiants and Unitarians can do that too. You can make the Bible appear to be saying anything you want by using out of context scriptures, and portions of sentences quoted.

 

[brightfame52]

Feel free to address (imputed) righteusness by God in Ro 1:17, 3:21, 4:5, Php 3:9.

I dont need to

 

[brightfame52]

You really should stop pulling scriptures and portions of sentence out of their context to support your pre-faith justification. That passage in it context is not even dealing with justification but our calling, and our (the believer) being in Christ. The grace is in Christ Jesus and the work that he did for us. It is in no way saying that we were in union with him before we were even born.

Now, instead of just repeating yourself, for the sake of a new direction that the thread might take that involves what others say and not just your voice (and before it gets locked because of your non stop repetition and your failure to address any other voices but your own) how are you going to refute what I said in post #328, and how do you support your statement that we are justified before we ever come to faith, given the scriptures from Gal and Eph that I gave in that post? And I mean refute, not just contradict.

Im showing you scripture, the elect have a eternal union in Christ by election. They were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

[brightfame52]

Yeah? Well Armininiants and Unitarians can do that too. You can make the Bible appear to be saying anything you want by using out of context scriptures, and portions of sentences quoted.

You rather I show you newspaper articles ?

 

[brightfame52]

@Arial

. The grace is in Christ Jesus and the work that he did for us. It is in no way saying that we were in union with him before we were even born.

So where the elect in Adam in union before they were born ?

 

[Arial]

They are the same, Justification declares one righteous.

Righteousness is Christ's righteousness imputed. Justified is the legal standing before God because Jesus substituted himself for us, taking the penalty for our sin----the just penalty for sin, which is the wrath of God. It reconciles one with God. They are not the same thing.

 

[Arial]

@Arial



So where the elect in Adam in union before they were born ?

I can't make sense of the question. Sorry.