If it's True That Justification by Faith ...

[brightfame52]

Justification and Righteous before we believe !

That those Christ died for dont have to believe, obey, or repent, in fact do anything in order to be Justified from all sin and pronounced Righteous before God, that Truth is seen in Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

And was raised again for or because of our Justification. Who are the Our here ? The Our is all for whom He was delivered for their or because of their offences !

Now in the text they are said to be Justified when Christ rose for their Justification ! Now did He raise for my Justification before I believed ? Wonder if one that comes to believe on Him did so in 1981, did Christ raise from the dead for their Justification before 1981 ? Of course He did ! Now the word Justification here is the greek word dikaiósis and means:

acquittal, justifying, justification, a process of absolution.

emphasizing Christ's full payment of the debt for sin which liberates the believer[or the one Christ died for] from all divine condemnation.

The origin of the word dikaiósis is the word dikaioó:

the act of pronouncing righteous, acquittal

So the word carries both meanings, acquittal and the pronouncing of Righteous.

So all for whom He died and rose again for are both acquitted and pronounced Righteous before God, before they believe a thing, or even before they even know about it, it will be a Gospel revelation to them Rom 1:16-17. However, it was a fact before the Gospel revelation, and so their coming to believe it had absolutely nothing to do with it, for the fact were a reality[before God because of Christ] before they were even born sinners ! This is a Truth the natural mind cannot receive ! 12

 

[Eleanor]

@Eleanor
Faith is a performance.

Performance is physical.
Faith is not physical, faith is dispositional.

Too much winging it and not enough informed of it.

 

[brightfame52]

Performance is physical.
Faith is not physical, faith is dispositional.

Too much winging it and not enough informed of it.

Faith is a performance, no way around it. Are you basing your Justification b4 God on your performance/Faith

 

[Eleanor]

Faith is a performance, no way around it. Are you basing your Justification b4 God on your performance/Faith

Not enough informed. . .

 

[makesends]

Faith is a performance, no way around it. Are you basing your Justification b4 God on your performance/Faith

I don't see how faith is a performance. That it produces performance is not in doubt. But it is not the performance. If it is a performance, then "by grace we are saved through [performance]." Seems like a poor substitute. That faith is active and productive is beyond question. that it is what a person does is not beyond question. @Eleanor seems to me to be referring to your use of false equivalence.

 

[brightfame52]

All that believe are or have been Justified !

Even though mans religion dont believe it, wont accept it, nevertheless it must be preached, but only those who have been Justified, by the Merits of Christ's blood shed for them, do and can believe ! The reason why the masses of people dont believe and will not believe on Christ, its simply this ,They cannot because they were never of His Sheep Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

So they cannot believe Jn 12:37-39

37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not

38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

God gives only them Christ actually died for the ability to believe on Him, for His sake Phil 1:29, those only for whom He suffered and died, and by that, did satisfy all His Law and Justice FOR THEM ! All for whom He died He made them declared Righteous Rom 5:18-19

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

And to them this Righteousness and Justification of Life is revealed to God given Faith Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Understand, The Gospel makes known to them that Christ died for, the results of His death, Righteousness to them and or Justification of Life, For they had been freely Justified by His Grace through the Redemption [its efficacious value] that is ni Christ Jesus Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

[brightfame52]

I don't see how faith is a performance. That it produces performance is not in doubt. But it is not the performance. If it is a performance, then "by grace we are saved through [performance]." Seems like a poor substitute. That faith is active and productive is beyond question. that it is what a person does is not beyond question. @Eleanor seems to me to be referring to your use of false equivalence.

Then we don't see alike. Isnt Faith a performance here Matt 23:23

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

 

[makesends]

Then we don't see alike. Isnt Faith a performance here Matt 23:23

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

No. Faith is what results in performance, there in Matt 23:23. The Greek denotes 'faithfulness'; belief with results.

 

[brightfame52]

No. Faith is what results in performance, there in Matt 23:23. The Greek denotes 'faithfulness'; belief with results.

Faith and faithfulness, you cant be faithful to God without Faith and confidence in God, for whatsoever is not of Faith is sin. And besides that, the greek word in a noun πίστις, its unwise to separate Faith from faithfulness, for your faithfulness first and foremost should be towards God, and how can that be if you dont have Faith in Gods in the first place. And this is Law And by it being a noun, it proves an action is embedded in the noun Faith, something done.

 

[makesends]

Faith and faithfulness, you cant be faithful to God without Faith and confidence in God, for whatsoever is not of Faith is sin. And besides that, the greek word in a noun πίστις, its unwise to separate Faith from faithfulness, for your faithfulness first and foremost should be towards God, and how can that be if you dont have Faith in Gods in the first place. And this is Law And by it being a noun, it proves an action is embedded in the noun Faith, something done.

False equivalence. The fact that it is not wise to separate (I assume you mean, in one's mind) faith and faithfulness, does not mean that they are the same thing. The fact that you can't be faithful to God without Faith does not mean that they are the same thing.

 

[brightfame52]

False equivalence. The fact that it is not wise to separate (I assume you mean, in one's mind) faith and faithfulness, does not mean that they are the same thing. The fact that you can't be faithful to God without Faith does not mean that they are the same thing.

No its unwise of you to do that.

 

[makesends]

No its unwise of you to do that.

Unwise of me to do what? To separate them? That's true it would be unwise of me (or you or anyone else) to do that. But that is beside the point. The question is whether they are, as you claimed, one-and-the-same thing. They are not.

It would be unwise of you to separate your eyes from your coordination. But they are not the same thing.

 

[brightfame52]

Before Gospel Obedience and while ungodly !

Are those that Jesus Christ died for, Justified from all sin before God's Law and Justice prior to any Gospel Obedience they shall render, such as Faith and Repentance ? Yes by all means they are, or how else can it be declared that God Justifieth the Ungodly Rom 4:4-6

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Gospel Obedience to the Truth is Godliness Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Now if God Justifieth the Ungodly, then it cannot be after an act of Godliness ! And if it be not of works so that it can be of Grace, then it cannot be of any condition that was imposed upon the one being Justified !

Also if they [The Justified ones] are believing on Him [Rom 8:33] that is Justifying the Ungodly, then the verdict of Justification is being passed upon them while being Ungodly; Hence how can Faith, Repentance, or any Gospel ordinance or obedience be a condition to Justification before God , when its based upon Christ's Finished Work for them ?

Then once again, men that Christ died for are Justified before God apart from Faith or any obedience from them.

They are being Justified while nothing is in them but ungodliness and enmity against God , even as they are reconciled to God while being enemies, by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10, now if we are not Justified before God before we act obedience of Faith or Repentance, then we were not Justified as being Ungodly, but as Godly and Obedience, which would contradict Rom 4:5, where its plainly stated that God Justified the Ungodly !

 

[brightfame52]

Rom 3:24 says it all !

Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

This verse actually teaches the Gospel of God's Grace, and it speaks of Justification before God simply premised on Grace , because of or for the sake of the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus, meaning His Death, His Tasting Death by the Grace of God Heb 2:9, each man He tasted death for , they are freely Justified thereby, and this Justification is apart from any Gospel obedience of their own, be it faith obedience, or repentance obedience, for if it had anything to do with any act of their own, then it was not freely done by God.

That word freely is the greek word dórean and means:

as a free gift, without payment, freely, something freely done (as gratis), i.e. without "cause"; unearned (undeserved); freely given (without cost) hence not done out of mere obligation or compulsion.

See Faith and Repentance are obligations, God commands Repentance Acts 17:30

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Commanding means its an obligation, its a compulsion to be adhered to, complied with !

So If God Justified any based upon a compliance to His Command, then it was not done freely by His Grace as stated in the text Rom 3:24, simple as that !

 

[brightfame52]

Rom 3:24 says it all !2

This Justification in Rom 3:24 God does bestow or impute or charge to, or reckon to, all for whom Christ died, and this without any demand whatsover on their persons, but solely on the Gift Imputed through the Work of Christ, or the Redemption that is in Him Rom 5:18b

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon[By Imputation or Reckoning] all men unto justification of life.

Also Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

This being made Righteous is by imputation of what Christ has done, its charged to the Elect's Sinner Account, and God reckons him or her, because of or through Christ, as if they had done everything that the Law of God requires, so in actuality they are these Rom 2:13

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Thats because that Obedience that Christ rendered to God's Law, all that was required of the Law of God Matt 22:37-40

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

This has been charged to everyone Christ died for, as a Free Gift, even while they are unbelievers and enemies ! Thats because its all of Grace they have been freely Justified !

 

[EarlyActs]

Rom 3:24 says it all !

Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

This verse actually teaches the Gospel of God's Grace, and it speaks of Justification before God simply premised on Grace , because of or for the sake of the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus, meaning His Death, His Tasting Death by the Grace of God Heb 2:9, each man He tasted death for , they are freely Justified thereby, and this Justification is apart from any Gospel obedience of their own, be it faith obedience, or repentance obedience, for if it had anything to do with any act of their own, then it was not freely done by God.

That word freely is the greek word dórean and means:

as a free gift, without payment, freely, something freely done (as gratis), i.e. without "cause"; unearned (undeserved); freely given (without cost) hence not done out of mere obligation or compulsion.

See Faith and Repentance are obligations, God commands Repentance Acts 17:30

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Commanding means its an obligation, its a compulsion to be adhered to, complied with !

So If God Justified any based upon a compliance to His Command, then it was not done freely by His Grace as stated in the text Rom 3:24, simple as that !

That's true of that individual, but a life of obedience from Someone was required, and has been provided by Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

That's true of that individual, but a life of obedience from Someone was required, and has been provided by Christ.

This isnt about anything the person does. But all what God did

 

[EarlyActs]

The God-man Christ did it for him, yes. “mine are Christs coming, doing , dying and being raised as much as if I had come, done, died and was raised.” —Luther

 

[brightfame52]

Justification of Life !

Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Even so by the Righteousness OF ONE NOT TWO, BUT ONE, the Free Gift CAME UPON, not made available, not offered to, BUT CAME UPON all men to JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE !

Now we know the false teaching tell us that this means all men without exception have Justification of Life, but that's a lie, the verse does not say that and surely cannot begin to mean that, those who believe that are willfully ignorant to what Justification of Life means, and what is meant by it coming upon all for whom it did come upon !

First the words came upon are not in the original but are translated from the preposition eis which means:

eis (a preposition) – properly, into (unto) – literally, "motion into which" implying penetration ("unto," "union") to a particular purpose or result.

It denotes a result, that being the result of either, as in the case of the one offence of Adam the result being " judgment came upon all men to condemnation"

Folk that was the result and purpose of God in effect, and it had nothing to do with the all men to whom Judgment and Condemnation came upon doing anything, or not doing anything, their individual acts or non acts are irrelevant !

Now with the same line of reasoning Justification of Life came upon all men as a result of The Righteousness of ONE Jesus Christ, and it likewise had nothing to do with the all men to whom Justification came upon, their individual acts or non acts are not relevant to the result !

Now the result of the former , that is what came upon them was Judgment to condemnation :

And the result of the Latter, that is what came upon them was Justification of Life, which means:

acquittal, justifying, justification, a process of absolution.

the act of pronouncing righteous, acquittal

And this acquittal, pronouncing Righteous brings with it an added benefit which is Life !

Now, for Rom 5:18 to be taught as meaning all men without exception have come upon them Justification of Life, by the One Act of Righteousness of Jesus Christ is to say all men without exception are before God acquitted of all guilt and pronounced by Him as Righteous !

And we know that is not True because that would lead to the false teaching of Universalism and it would deny the fact that scripture teaches that some men are condemned already Jn 3:18 and are under God's Wrath Jn 3:36 with the promise of not seeing Life ! Which contradicts having had Justification of Life come upon them as those in Rom 5:18 did because of the Righteousness of One ! 9

 

[brightfame52]

Justification of Life ! 2

This Justification of Life through the Lord Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Divine Promise to Israel, God's Elect Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

The all men that Justification of Life came upon in Rom 5:18 are the All Men that constitute all the Seed of Israel [Christ] the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

There can be no Justification of Life unto anyone apart from the Divine Promise of Isa 45:25, if it is, its outside of the Lord Jesus Christ and therefore worthless !

Some may argue and say that Isa 45:25 is speaking only of ethnic jews, but its not, its speaking of both ethnic jews and ethnic Gentiles who are the Israel of God. See the Mystery has always been that elect Gentiles are also Israel, an Israel that has nothing to do with ethnicity ! It only had to be that they all belonged to a certain Seed , and not a physical seed !