I ask then, has God rejected His people?

[CrowCross]

You’ve done no such thing.

You do need to do something if you plan on proving dispensationalism correct. So far you have seriously failed

You're just talking.

Your biblical views are not the correct views. You just assume they are. Sometimes in your past someone taught you dispensationalism, now you can’t see beyond it.

More simple talking.

Come on Carbon...you're better than that.

 

[CrowCross]

I think talking about Preterism, is like talking about Calvinism; we have Calvinism and Hyper Calvinism. We have Preterism and Partial Preterism. When I debate with Provisionists, they seem to think all Calvinism is Hyper...

All Preterism isn't Full Preterism. You agree 70 AD is fulfilled; you're a Partial Preterist; though surely a mild one. That was the hook that got me snagged; if you think some of the New Testament has been Fulfilled; your a Partial Preterist...

Yes. Very, very limited.

Some of those views get strange when some of them they think Jesus returned then.

 

[Carbon]

This is the one and only Second Coming of Christ in scripture.

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.Revelation 20

 

[CrowCross]

I believe us Amillennialists know what we believe. Sometimes some just can’t see beyond their own beliefs to even consider something different. Sad

I've studied all the views....heck, at one time I was back and forth on them

The preterist view was the first to fall. Then the Amillenialist interpretation and post trib...then studied pre-wrath rapture and settled on what the bible teaches....the Pre-Tribulation rapture of the bride of Christ not destined for the wrath of God.

 

[Bruiser]

Yes. Very, very limited.

Some of those views get strange when some of them they think Jesus returned then.

Wouldn't a potential return of Christ in 70 AD, be much like a Secret Rapture in Premillennial Dispensationalism?

A secret?

 

[Carbon]

I've studied all the views....heck, at one time I was back and forth on them

The preterist view was the first to fall. Then the Amillenialist interpretation and post trib...then studied pre-wrath rapture and settled on what the bible teaches....the Pre-Tribulation rapture of the bride of Christ not destined for the wrath of God.

Okay.

 

[CrowCross]

Wouldn't a potential return of Christ in 70 AD, be much like a Secret Rapture in Premillennial Dispensationalism?

A secret?

No. Premillennial Dispensationalism doesn't speak of a secret rapture. Those against that theology create this strawman.

If there is a "secret rapture" it's in the unknown timing the event....not that it will happen and nobody will notice it.

 

[CrowCross]

Okay.

Do you have one verse that disproves a pre-tribulation rapture?

 

[Carbon]

I’m on my lunch at the moment. But later I’m hoping to have some time.

 

[Bruiser]

No. Premillennial Dispensationalism doesn't speak of a secret rapture. Those against that theology create this strawman.

If there is a "secret rapture" it's in the unknown timing the event....not that it will happen and nobody will notice it.

Ah that makes sense. While studying Partial Preterism, the book offered claims that something was seen; but I'd have to look it up...

But I really don't want to look up Partial Preterism again; like I said, it ruined Eschatology for me...

 

[Carbon]

@CrowCross

Just passages that don’t teach a pre trib rapture. By scripture not teaching such a thing should be good.

 

[Arial]

Are you saying people will perish for believing in a pre-millennial rapture of the church?

I am quoting a scripture relating to peoples lack of knowledge and how it prevents them from correct handing of the word of God. This is the reference:

But then, only Reformed theology teaches how to put scripture with scripture keeping the entire Bible consistent with itself so one learns to detect the discrepancies and contradictions presented in Dispensationalism and Arminianism.

Stop jumping to the one conclusion that most promotes and argument or intentionally places your opponent in the worst possible light.

 

[Marty]

Do you have one verse that disproves a pre-tribulation rapture?

Yes, when Jesus comes again it will be on the judgement day not 7 years prior


Matthew 25
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

[Bruiser]

I am quoting a scripture relating to peoples lack of knowledge and how it prevents them from correct handing of the word of God. This is the reference:

Stop jumping to the one conclusion that most promotes and argument or intentionally places your opponent in the worst possible light.

Perhaps you agree that people perish from a lack of Knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ? That the Verse is only intended to speak about Salvation?

Isaiah 53:11 ESV; After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied, by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.

Justification is Eternal Security; despite Eschatology, right? John Gill said that "by his Knowledge" means our Knowledge of the Gospel...

Eschatology is not a Sola...

 

[Arial]

When will you stop forming my thoughts? I have told you several times that Rev contains symbolic language. Thing is, like you I don't treat the entire book as symbolic.

I am not forming your thoughts. Good grief. I am stating the Dispensational hermeneutic which you yourself promote non-stop. What I marked in bold in reality bears no relationship to anything I said in that post. It certainly wasn't me saying that you say Rev contains no symbolism. In fact, my example of a sentence interpreted as half literal and half symbolic would present the opposite of that. So, I guess you intend to twist everything I say into something you can accuse me of.

I have demonstrated several times that the pre-trib rapture view is accurate.
Do we need to discuss the white horse again and why the white horse is not mentioned in 1 Thes 4?

That is the next step in my thread The White Horse Imagery of Rev 19: Amil View. There I will show you exactly why that does not demonstrate a pre-trib rapture. Spoiler alert: It goes right back to a previous post in a different thread where I commented on the failure of preptrib/ A'ist churches to ever be taught by pastors (who never learned themselves) on how to read and interpret the Bible as a whole unit, keeping it consistent and without contradiction, or even to discern when a contradiction and/or inconsistency exists. Shortened version of that: Not knowing or ever learning how to correctly handle the word of God.

And the rest of your "Do we need to discuss this and that---" which you are using as demonstrating a pretrib rapture will fall under the same category.

I have presented biblical views on each of the topics above...plus more...concerning the pre-tribulation rapture.
You disagree...fine.

You have presented YOUR views.

 

[Arial]

Perhaps you agree that people perish from a lack of Knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ? That the Verse is only intended to speak about Salvation?

Isaiah 53:11 ESV; After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied, by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.

Justification is Eternal Security; despite Eschatology, right? John Gill said that "by his Knowledge" means our Knowledge of the Gospel...

Eschatology is not a Sola...

I wasn't even referring to eschatology when I quoted that and it is from Hosea. Though I admit I was overextending its contextual reference.

 

[CrowCross]

Yes, when Jesus comes again it will be on the judgement day not 7 years prior


Matthew 25
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

I don't disagree. Jesus comes twice. This looks at the post trib judgement.

So, I'm still looking for that verse.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

[Bruiser]

I wasn't even referring to eschatology when I quoted that and it is from Hosea. Though I admit I was overextending its contextual reference.

I tend to be a Fundamentalist. I'm so glad that much of my formative years growing in the Faith, occured at an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church. If it taught me anything, it's that our Theology needs to represent the Fundamentals of the Faith. In other words, if something we think, doesn't agree with a Fundamental; that thought needs to be rethunk...

Eternal Security is a Fundamental. Once Saved Always Saved when seen through the lens of the Perseverance of the Saints, is significant...

Fundamentals; the best Hermeneutic...

 

[Josheb]

Personally, I find it is not the POSTING that is exhausting, but the other POSTERS.

Try posting after suffering a stroke. Thank God for spellcheck. Ya'all have no idea what these things look like in their first draft.

 

[Marty]

I don't disagree. Jesus comes twice. This looks at the post trib judgement.

So, I'm still looking for that verse.

Jesus didn't say when I come for a third time