How old is the earth?

[CrowCross]

I don't know how old they are. The scientists do. And I've read their stuff, find them credible, and have reason to believe them.

And why are there scare-quotes around the word "scientist"?

It's to show these "scientist" are presenting a false message. One that clearly contradicts scripture...yet...some christians place mans "science' above scripture.
These same scientist will tell you when your dead...especially after 3 days you stay dead. Because "science" says so....we can know Jesus didn't rise from the dead. Because "science" tells us the earth is old...we can know God didn't create in six days.

Material ontology is the branch of ontology that defines existence primarily in terms of matter or material substance. In other words, for a material ontology, to exist means to be materially constituted, to have physical substance, to be composed of matter, or to be embedded within space-time as a material entity.

Is there no room for a spiritual existence?

Now, answer my question with either "yes," "no," or "I don't know."




No.

 

[CrowCross]

Well of course it is

Perhaps your bible is wrong...but my bible isn't.

 

[CrowCross]

It could also be they are in agreement with what they are actually finding?

What are they actually finding?

Oh, we found a meteorite....it must be billions of years old.

 

[Rella]

On day six we see the creation of animals then Adam, then the garden...Adam placed in it...more plants made...the don't eat this law...the naming of previously created animals...then the creation of Eve.

Referring back to day 3..there was no man

Plants were created on day 3.....then plants were also put into the garden on day 6.

That is...plants...vegetation...were created on day 3. On Day 6 there was a separate creation of more plants in the garden of Eden.


This was not day 3

Yes, Adam was told not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Eve was later told this by God or Adam.

I haven't got the full concept of your point...but I hope I addressed some of it.

Thank you , yes and no.

I know you believe what you see.

I see 2 chapters that look for all the world like they were written by different people.

One statement ( actually there are more) in Gen 2 makes me bwelieve that Gen 1 day 6 was not continued into Gen 2.

If Gen 2 were a continuation then when it says vs 1 -4

1Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts.

Great. They were completed

2By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.

Now we have the close of the creation 6 days.

3Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

And I love this day of rest. I remind myself it is the day of rest every week.
Then comes

4This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.

This is the account of the heavens and earth when they were created.... and there simply is no reason for that statement.

If it was a continuation of Day 6 then it should have been simply God chose to for man and breath life into him and put him in the
garden in Eden.

That is succinct enough to say it was Gen 1 continued.

But it is phrased as if there had been enough time that a recap had to be done.

And if you are KJO fan I would say here is another wrong because they say in Gen 2:4

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

You cannot have a generation of anything in a 24 hour period.... So to KJ on this also.

 

[Rella]

The synoptics and John tell the account of Jesus with different priorities and details. Are you going to also say there are two Jesuses and an 'entirely different' story and no way of knowing. I'm not. Notice the end of each of them.

I don't know what difference it makes, I don't know what disorder you are seeing, I don't know what different treatment there is. Just different details. Missing a 7th day in the 1st ? What? How?

I do know most of the material from memory; what I don't know is your distinctive position.

I seemingly cannot make myself understood... so I will quit trying

Thank you for your comments

 

[EarlyActs]

I seemingly cannot make myself understood... so I will quit trying

Thank you for your comments

Give it a week; if you can make it clear, try again. I had to have things sit for quite a while and then suddenly last spring (of 24) I had 5 distinct parts 'mesh' and become a book, and then a journal.

 

[prism]

@John Bauer wrote, "However, the point was ontological status (existence), not material composition".

It's funny how with words we can construct concepts we assume/suspect are true.

 

[prism]

...

 

[prism]

4.54 ± 0.05 billion years (a weighted average of meteorite and terrestrial evidence).

4-12,000 years assuming the Fall was shortly after the first six dates of creation.

 

[prism]

6 to 10 thousand years old. I say closer to 6. Certainly not billions of years old.

approximately agree

 

[Carbon]

Perhaps your bible is wrong...but my bible isn't.

Haha, okay.

 

[Carbon]

What are they actually finding?

Oh, we found a meteorite....it must be billions of years old.

Maybe

 

[QVQ]

@John Bauer
All domestic wheat have non-shattering rachis. The seeds will not disperse without pressure.
Therefore, all domestic wheat, including dwarf varieties are 2) Not viable outside cultivation
It requires human intervention (pressure) to release the seeds, therefore the plants cannot easily reseed.
There are "pressures" that are natural which means a few of non-shattering rachis seeds may sprout but the domesticated varieties will eventually die out.

Domesticated breeding creates Genetically Manipulated Organism, GMO, 1) sterile 2) not viable 3) revert to type
Domestic wheat lacks the mechanisms for effective seed dispersal and survival in the wild

 

[QVQ]

And just for the record, as I wasn't being snide to @John Bauer when I suggested he do the research.
I simply didn't want to go through all the technical and obscure sources. Was hoping to foist if off on someone else.
So I went through all of the sources and my own archives.
I will explain why I am fairly certain Norin 10 Dwarf Wheat is irradiated.

The RhT 1b gene occurs in Japanese Short Straw Wheat (Daruma)
Daruma was crossed with one hard wheat and one soft wheat

Durama and hard wheat are tetraploids These are not bread wheats.
The soft wheat is a hexaploid. This is the bread wheat.

The resulting hybrid wheat Norin 10 is a hexaploid that contained a gene from a tetraploid

Crossbreeding Tetra and Hexa ploidal plants by natural pollination will produce seeds but the seeds are mostly infertile or the plants produced are weak.

In the 1920's and 30's it was found that crossing polyploids (tetra, hexa) could be induced easily by treating the plants/seeds with irradiation and colchicine.
IT was a revolution in plant hybridization, not only wheat but Irises and many other polyploidal plants.
That is why any time an easy and successful ploidal cross appears after 1920, there is probably irradiation or chemicals in the mix.

 

[Rella]

And just for the record, as I wasn't being snide to @John Bauer when I suggested he do the research.
I simply didn't want to go through all the technical and obscure sources. Was hoping to foist if off on someone else.
So I went through all of the sources and my own archives.
I will explain why I am fairly certain Norin 10 Dwarf Wheat is irradiated.

The RhT 1b gene occurs in Japanese Short Straw Wheat (Daruma)
Daruma was crossed with one hard wheat and one soft wheat

Durama and hard wheat are tetraploids These are not bread wheats.
The soft wheat is a hexaploid. This is the bread wheat.

The resulting hybrid wheat Norin 10 is a hexaploid that contained a gene from a tetraploid

Crossbreeding Tetra and Hexa ploidal plants by natural pollination will produce seeds but the seeds are mostly infertile or the plants produced are weak.

In the 1920's and 30's it was found that crossing polyploids (tetra, hexa) could be induced easily by treating the plants/seeds with irradiation and colchicine.
IT was a revolution in plant hybridization, not only wheat but Irises and many other polyploidal plants.
That is why any time an easy and successful ploidal cross appears after 1920, there is probably irradiation or chemicals in the mix.

OK ... admittedly you have me confused.... both of you.

How does this wheat" affect us?

Is it used for wither food or animal feed?

I see irradiation mentioned and i get concerned.

 

[QVQ]

I see irradiation mentioned and i get concerned.

It is not a concern. The radiation, very low levels, merely weaken bonds in the genome and the genome uses new recombination. That is very low low levels of radiation or the genome would be damaged to death. Very very careful and very very little. And it doesn't remain.

It has actually been a boon for mankind as it allowed for the hybridization of wheat that was resistant to molds with a higher protein content and other very desirable characteristics.
The shorter stalks of bread wheat led to a revolution in grain production as the stalks were sturdier and withstood wind rain and the elements.
Much larger harvest of superior wheat for mankind

AND the good news is, if this wheat or any other domesticated GMO does prove to be a problem, it can simply be gone by not growing it.
The real concern is a GMO zombie that man could not get rid of but so far, none of the GMO from the dawn of agriculture can survive or pass down the "mutations" without continuing human intervention.

GMO cannola was a transgenic mutant. Genes were inserted into the Cannola Genome and created a super weed.
Big Scare GMO cannola was going to take over the midwest and crowd all other plants out. And it was believed, the gene could spread and pollute other genomes.
The US Government did research and proved that the "mutant" Gene disappeared within a few generation. The cannola genome repaired the inserted gene and deselected it.

This is why this is important. How mutations are created and whether plants can evolve by "mutation"
So far, any human manipulation for the last 10,000 yrs has proved to be 1) sterile 2) not viable 3) revert to type (repair and deselect)
No Evolution

 

[John Bauer]

Okay, admittedly, you have me confused—both of you.

How does this "wheat" affect us?

Is it used for wither food or animal feed?

It affects us only in that almost every high-yielding bread wheat cultivar grown today—whether in North America, Europe, or Asia—carries the Norin 10 dwarfing alleles (Rht-B1b, Rht-D1b). These alleles are now fixed in global wheat breeding because they give consistent lodging resistance and yield stability under fertilizer use.

In other words, your loaf of bread exists because a mutation, originally found in a Japanese landrace, was fixed into Norin 10 through pedigree breeding and spread worldwide. Without those alleles, wheat crops would've been unable to keep pace with demand.

I see irradiation mentioned and I get concerned.

Don't worry, there's nothing to be concerned about. For one thing, irradiated does not mean radioactive. After all, you are being irradiated every single day from solar and cosmic rays, and when getting an X-ray at the dentist office. For another thing, when scientists irradiate seeds to induce a desired mutation, those treated seeds are not used to make your bread. Several generations separate that first crop from the one that made your bread.

 

[prism]

And just for the record, as I wasn't being snide to @John Bauer when I suggested he do the research.
I simply didn't want to go through all the technical and obscure sources. Was hoping to foist if off on someone else.
So I went through all of the sources and my own archives.
I will explain why I am fairly certain Norin 10 Dwarf Wheat is irradiated.

The RhT 1b gene occurs in Japanese Short Straw Wheat (Daruma)
Daruma was crossed with one hard wheat and one soft wheat

Durama and hard wheat are tetraploids These are not bread wheats.
The soft wheat is a hexaploid. This is the bread wheat.

The resulting hybrid wheat Norin 10 is a hexaploid that contained a gene from a tetraploid

Crossbreeding Tetra and Hexa ploidal plants by natural pollination will produce seeds but the seeds are mostly infertile or the plants produced are weak.

In the 1920's and 30's it was found that crossing polyploids (tetra, hexa) could be induced easily by treating the plants/seeds with irradiation and colchicine.
IT was a revolution in plant hybridization, not only wheat but Irises and many other polyploidal plants.
That is why any time an easy and successful ploidal cross appears after 1920, there is probably irradiation or chemicals in the mix.

 

[QVQ]

@prism Re: Post 639
Me too. I was just going to hybridize some Irises, simple cross polination. Yeah right!
Wham! Diploid, Tetraploid, Hexaploid, Polyploid.
It means different varieties within the same species have different numbers of chromosome.
Humans are diploid, 2 complete sets of chromosomes, one from each parent.
Plants can be polyploid, Tetraploid, 4 sets chromosomes, Hexaploid 6 sets of chromosomes.
Hybridizing polyploidal plants get complicated as it is difficult to cross breed the polyploids (Tetraploid with Hexaploid, for example)

As I noted earlier, simple cross pollination of Polyploid plants, Diploid, Tetraploids, Hexaploids results in mostly sterile seeds or very weak plants because of the problems of matching all those chromosomes.
This is now greatly facilitated by irradiation which was replaced by chemical colchicine.
It became easy, abt 1920-1930 to hybridize the polyploids using those tools
It revolutionized plant breeding, resulting in an explosion of new variations.

But for me, without access to radiation equipment or colchicine, it meant I had to know the Ploidal state of the Iris I was attempting to cross and the problems associated with same. Applied genetics.

 

[David Koberstein]

It affects us only in that almost every high-yielding bread wheat cultivar grown today—whether in North America, Europe, or Asia—carries the Norin 10 dwarfing alleles (Rht-B1b, Rht-D1b). These alleles are now fixed in global wheat breeding because they give consistent lodging resistance and yield stability under fertilizer use.

In other words, your loaf of bread exists because a mutation, originally found in a Japanese landrace, was fixed into Norin 10 through pedigree breeding and spread worldwide. Without those alleles, wheat crops would've been unable to keep pace with demand.

Don't worry, there's nothing to be concerned about. For one thing, irradiated does not mean radioactive. After all, you are being irradiated every single day from solar and cosmic rays, and when getting an X-ray at the dentist office. For another thing, when scientists irradiate seeds to induce a desired mutation, those treated seeds are not used to make your bread. Several generations separate that first crop from the one that made your bread.

It affects us only in that almost every high-yielding bread wheat cultivar grown today—whether in North America, Europe, or Asia—carries the Norin 10 dwarfing alleles (Rht-B1b, Rht-D1b). These alleles are now fixed in global wheat breeding because they give consistent lodging resistance and yield stability under fertilizer use.

In other words, your loaf of bread exists because a mutation, originally found in a Japanese landrace, was fixed into Norin 10 through pedigree breeding and spread worldwide. Without those alleles, wheat crops would've been unable to keep pace with demand.




Don't worry, there's nothing to be concerned about. For one thing, irradiated does not mean radioactive. After all, you are being irradiated every single day from solar and cosmic rays, and when getting an X-ray at the dentist office. For another thing, when scientists irradiate seeds to induce a desired mutation, those treated seeds are not used to make your bread. Several generations separate that first crop from the one that made your bread.

I will keep eating Kosher and organic and no GMO's

Shalom