God Clearly Defined Who Could Speak For Him

[JustTheFacts]

Jesus very clearly told us who we could trust to speak the word of God:

“For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for God gives the Spirit without measure.” (John 3:34)
“For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. I know that his commandment is eternal life. The things I speak, even as the Father has said to me, so I speak.” (John 12:49-50)
“He who doesn’t love me doesn’t keep my words. The word which you hear isn’t mine, but the Father’s who sent me.” (John 14:24)

Jesus stated we can trust his words as the word of God. The first and primary source of the word of God in the Bible is Jesus himself. Jesus claimed that God sent him to the world and gave him the words that he spoke. Very clearly Jesus stated that his words came from God whom he referred to as his Father. But then Jesus went past claiming that God was his Father, he told the world that he and God were equals:

“I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)

Jesus stated that his words came from God because he IS God. Jesus also described his words as having power that could only come from God:

“Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.” (John 5:24)
“Most certainly, I tell you, if a person keeps my word, he will never see death.” (John 8:51)

Only God can judge the dead and promise eternal life and Jesus stated that those who hear his words and follow them will not be judged and they “will never see death.” With this as a starting point, there is no doubt that the words of Jesus are stated in the Gospels to be the word of God.

Jesus also validated the words of Moses as the word of God. Jesus healed a leper then said to him:

“See that you say nothing to anybody, but go show yourself to the priest and offer for your cleansing the things which Moses commanded, for a testimony to them.” (Mark 1:44)

Jesus told the healed leper to testify to the religious leaders in accordance with Moses’ commands. Jesus, as God, healed a man then commanded him to follow the Law of Moses indicating that the Law of Moses came from God. Jesus also referenced miracles documented by Moses to validate that God was with Moses:

“But about the dead, that they are raised, haven’t you read in the book of Moses about the bush, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?” (Mark 12:26)

Jesus referred to the “scriptures” (Mark 12:24) then connected God’s gift of eternal life and miracles to the “book of Moses.” God’s appearance to Moses in the burning bush was Moses introduction to God—the first miracle in his life that he recorded. There were many more recorded after this.

We also find that Jesus used words from the “book of Moses” to prove himself to be God:

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM,” and he said, “You shall tell the children of Israel this: I AM has sent me to you.” (Exodus 3:14 –WEB)
Jesus said to them, “Most certainly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence, I AM.” (John 8:58)

Moses wrote that in that burning bush God described himself as “I AM.” Jesus used this reference to claim that he was the same as the God who spoke to Moses. There can be no doubt that the evidence proves Jesus endorsed the words of Moses to be the word of God.

Several verses in the book of Moses—the first five books in the Bible that are also referred to as the “Law,” “Hebrew Torah,” or “Pentateuch,” are interpreted to predict a future Messiah. The most referenced prophecy verses include Genesis 3:15, 22:18, 49:10, Numbers 24:17, and the following:

18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brothers, like you. I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him. 19 It shall happen, that whoever will not listen to my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. (Deuteronomy 18:18-19)

Moses did not mention Jesus by name, but Moses prophesied a specific future prophet who will come and speak for God. This prophet who is referred to as a Messiah will have authority over men and women because God WILL REQUIRE the words of the Messiah to be listened to—the Messiah will be a ruler. God will require ALL to listen to the Messiah even if they don’t want to listen—in other words there will be a penalty for those who reject the Messiah.

Not only did Moses prophecy the future Messiah, but many other OT prophets did too. For example, some of them include the following:

• Isaiah 7:14 – from the house of David, “the virgin will conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel” (Matthew 1:18-23)
• Micah 5:2 – “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, being small among the clans of Judah, out of you one will come out to me that is to be the ruler in Israel” (Matthew 2:1)
• Zechariah 12:10 – “I will pour on David’s house, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication, and they will look to me, whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for his only son, and will grieve bitterly for him, as one grieves for his firstborn.” (John 19:34-37)
• Hosea 11:1 – “When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.” (Matthew 2:13-15)
• Psalm 22:18 – “They divide my garments among them. They cast lost for my clothing.” (John 19:23-24)
• Malachi 3:1 – “Behold, I send my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me; and the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, behold, he comes!” says Yahweh of Armies. (Matthew 11:4-10)

This list is not all-inclusive because there are other OT prophets who also prophesied the Messiah.

Jesus claimed to be this prophesied Messiah and ruler:

25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming, he who is called Christ. When he has come, he will declare to us all things.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I am he, the one who speaks to you.” (John 4:25-26)

Jesus explained the relationship between the OT prophets and himself:

“Don’t think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn’t come to destroy, but to fulfill.” (Matthew 5:17)
“But all this has happened that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples left him and fled. (Matthew 26:56)

Jesus DID NOT come to destroy or replace the words of the OT prophets he came to fulfill them. Moses and the OT Prophets predicted a Messiah from God and Jesus stated he fulfilled that prophecy.

With the following words, Jesus again validated the words of Moses who prophesied Jesus to be the word of God because they predicted his arrival and mission:

“For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote about me.” (John 5:46)

Jesus stated he was the Messiah and his words as the word of God are to be believed and followed. Since Jesus spoke for God, Moses also spoke for God and MUST be believed. Taking that one step further, the OT prophet who also prophesied Jesus are to be believed because their words came from God. Moses recorded in his book that God told him any prophet who predicted the Messiah has spoken for God:

20 But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.” You may say in your heart, “How shall we know the word which Yahweh has not spoken?” When a prophet speaks in Yahweh’s name, if the thing doesn’t follow, nor happen, that is the thing which Yahweh has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You shall not be afraid of him. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22)

For a prophet to be from God two things must happen; they must predict the Messiah, and their predictions MUST come true. If either one fails to happen, the prophets were not from God. Prophets who are not from God will die, which also means that true prophets from God will live. Jesus claimed to be the Messiah and through his transfiguration event where Moses and Elijah appeared alive with Jesus (Mark 9:2-8) he proved that OT prophets who predicted him will live.

If Jesus is not the Messiah, then “the thing” has not yet happened and all the OT prophets are yet to be proven to have spoken for God. However, if Jesus is the Messiah than those who predicted “the thing” are from God and spoke the word of God. Since Jesus has claimed to be the Messiah and he appeared with two OT prophets, he has validated the words of Moses and the prophets to be the word of God.

Before moving on consider the New Testament (NT) contents and compare it to the word of God proven through the Law of God documented in Deuteronomy. The NT in the Christian Bible presents the words of Paul (thirteen letters) and other anonymous/unidentified authors (Hebrews, Jude, and James) and two disciples (John and Peter) as the word of God. But none of those authors, with the possible exception of John who received Revelation, are prophets who prophesied Jesus. The words of Paul and the authors of NT letters do not meet the criteria God provided to be able to speak the word of God, yet that what is believed and taught.

Many religious leaders claim theology that the Bible is the inherent and infallible word of God through men inspired by the Holy Spirit to speak and write it. But how can that be because what they claim contradicts what is written in the Law presented in the Bible? There is a major contradiction between religious leader theology and the word of God. My attempts to get even one Christian religious leader to acknowledge and address this contradiction has been unsuccessful.

 

[Arial]

Before moving on consider the New Testament (NT) contents and compare it to the word of God proven through the Law of God documented in Deuteronomy. The NT in the Christian Bible presents the words of Paul (thirteen letters) and other anonymous/unidentified authors (Hebrews, Jude, and James) and two disciples (John and Peter) as the word of God. But none of those authors, with the possible exception of John who received Revelation, are prophets who prophesied Jesus. The words of Paul and the authors of NT letters do not meet the criteria God provided to be able to speak the word of God, yet that what is believed and taught.

Jesus himself appointed the apostles to lay the foundation of HIS church.

John 16:13 "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come."
Acts 1:8 "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come up on you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
Eph 2:19-22 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole Structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

Jesus was with them for forty days between the resurrection and his ascension. Teaching. There were things that could not be fully understood until after his crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension. The only criteria God gives to be able to speak the word of God, is God appointing them to do so. We do not set boundaries around God.

Many religious leaders claim theology that the Bible is the inherent and infallible word of God through men inspired by the Holy Spirit to speak and write it. But how can that be because what they claim contradicts what is written in the Law presented in the Bible?

What is the contradiction?

There is a major contradiction between religious leader theology and the word of God. My attempts to get even one Christian religious leader to acknowledge and address this contradiction has been unsuccessful.

What is the contradiction? What is religious leader theology? Who are the religious leaders you refer to. And why did you say in the welcome thread that you believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God, and here are trying to make it not inerrant but in fact contradictory?

 

[Eleanor]

Jesus very clearly told us who we could trust to speak the word of God:
“For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for God gives the Spirit without measure.” (John 3:34)
“For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. I know that his commandment is eternal life. The things I speak, even as the Father has said to me, so I speak.” (John 12:49-50)
“He who doesn’t love me doesn’t keep my words. The word which you hear isn’t mine, but the Father’s who sent me.” (John 14:24)
Jesus stated we can trust his words as the word of God. The first and primary source of the word of God in the Bible is Jesus himself. Jesus claimed that God sent him to the world and gave him the words that he spoke. Very clearly Jesus stated that his words came from God whom he referred to as his Father. But then Jesus went past claiming that God was his Father, he told the world that he and God were equals:

“I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)

Jesus stated that his words came from God because he IS God. Jesus also described his words as having power that could only come from God:

“Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.” (John 5:24)
“Most certainly, I tell you, if a person keeps my word, he will never see death.” (John 8:51)

Only God can judge the dead and promise eternal life and Jesus stated that those who hear his words and follow them will not be judged and they “will never see death.” With this as a starting point, there is no doubt that the words of Jesus are stated in the Gospels to be the word of God.

Jesus also validated the words of Moses as the word of God. Jesus healed a leper then said to him:

“See that you say nothing to anybody, but go show yourself to the priest and offer for your cleansing the things which Moses commanded, for a testimony to them.” (Mark 1:44)

Jesus told the healed leper to testify to the religious leaders in accordance with Moses’ commands. Jesus, as God, healed a man then commanded him to follow the Law of Moses indicating that the Law of Moses came from God. Jesus also referenced miracles documented by Moses to validate that God was with Moses:

“But about the dead, that they are raised, haven’t you read in the book of Moses about the bush, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?” (Mark 12:26)

Jesus referred to the “scriptures” (Mark 12:24) then connected God’s gift of eternal life and miracles to the “book of Moses.” God’s appearance to Moses in the burning bush was Moses introduction to God—the first miracle in his life that he recorded. There were many more recorded after this.

We also find that Jesus used words from the “book of Moses” to prove himself to be God:

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM,” and he said, “You shall tell the children of Israel this: I AM has sent me to you.” (Exodus 3:14 –WEB)
Jesus said to them, “Most certainly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence, I AM.” (John 8:58)

Moses wrote that in that burning bush God described himself as “I AM.” Jesus used this reference to claim that he was the same as the God who spoke to Moses. There can be no doubt that the evidence proves Jesus endorsed the words of Moses to be the word of God.

Several verses in the book of Moses—the first five books in the Bible that are also referred to as the “Law,” “Hebrew Torah,” or “Pentateuch,” are interpreted to predict a future Messiah. The most referenced prophecy verses include Genesis 3:15, 22:18, 49:10, Numbers 24:17, and the following:

18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brothers, like you. I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him. 19 It shall happen, that whoever will not listen to my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. (Deuteronomy 18:18-19)

Moses did not mention Jesus by name, but Moses prophesied a specific future prophet who will come and speak for God. This prophet who is referred to as a Messiah will have authority over men and women because God WILL REQUIRE the words of the Messiah to be listened to—the Messiah will be a ruler. God will require ALL to listen to the Messiah even if they don’t want to listen—in other words there will be a penalty for those who reject the Messiah.

Not only did Moses prophecy the future Messiah, but many other OT prophets did too. For example, some of them include the following:

• Isaiah 7:14 – from the house of David, “the virgin will conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel” (Matthew 1:18-23)
• Micah 5:2 – “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, being small among the clans of Judah, out of you one will come out to me that is to be the ruler in Israel” (Matthew 2:1)
• Zechariah 12:10 – “I will pour on David’s house, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication, and they will look to me, whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for his only son, and will grieve bitterly for him, as one grieves for his firstborn.” (John 19:34-37)
• Hosea 11:1 – “When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.” (Matthew 2:13-15)
• Psalm 22:18 – “They divide my garments among them. They cast lost for my clothing.” (John 19:23-24)
• Malachi 3:1 – “Behold, I send my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me; and the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, behold, he comes!” says Yahweh of Armies. (Matthew 11:4-10)

This list is not all-inclusive because there are other OT prophets who also prophesied the Messiah.

Jesus claimed to be this prophesied Messiah and ruler:

25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming, he who is called Christ. When he has come, he will declare to us all things.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I am he, the one who speaks to you.” (John 4:25-26)

Jesus explained the relationship between the OT prophets and himself:

“Don’t think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn’t come to destroy, but to fulfill.” (Matthew 5:17)
“But all this has happened that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples left him and fled. (Matthew 26:56)

Jesus DID NOT come to destroy or replace the words of the OT prophets he came to fulfill them. Moses and the OT Prophets predicted a Messiah from God and Jesus stated he fulfilled that prophecy.

With the following words, Jesus again validated the words of Moses who prophesied Jesus to be the word of God because they predicted his arrival and mission:

“For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote about me.” (John 5:46)

Jesus stated he was the Messiah and his words as the word of God are to be believed and followed. Since Jesus spoke for God, Moses also spoke for God and MUST be believed. Taking that one step further, the OT prophet who also prophesied Jesus are to be believed because their words came from God. Moses recorded in his book that God told him any prophet who predicted the Messiah has spoken for God:

20 But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.” You may say in your heart, “How shall we know the word which Yahweh has not spoken?” When a prophet speaks in Yahweh’s name, if the thing doesn’t follow, nor happen, that is the thing which Yahweh has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You shall not be afraid of him. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22)

For a prophet to be from God two things must happen; they must predict the Messiah, and their predictions MUST come true. If either one fails to happen, the prophets were not from God. Prophets who are not from God will die, which also means that true prophets from God will live. Jesus claimed to be the Messiah and through his transfiguration event where Moses and Elijah appeared alive with Jesus (Mark 9:2-8) he proved that OT prophets who predicted him will live.

If Jesus is not the Messiah, then “the thing” has not yet happened and all the OT prophets are yet to be proven to have spoken for God. However, if Jesus is the Messiah than those who predicted “the thing” are from God and spoke the word of God. Since Jesus has claimed to be the Messiah and he appeared with two OT prophets, he has validated the words of Moses and the prophets to be the word of God.

Before moving on consider the New Testament (NT) contents and compare it to the word of God proven through the Law of God documented in Deuteronomy. The NT in the Christian Bible presents the words of Paul (thirteen letters) and other anonymous/unidentified authors (Hebrews, Jude, and James) and two disciples (John and Peter) as the word of God. But none of those authors, with the possible exception of John who received Revelation, are prophets who prophesied Jesus. The words of Paul and the authors of NT letters do not meet the criteria God provided to be able to speak the word of God, yet that what is believed and taught.

Many religious leaders claim theology that the Bible is the inherent and infallible word of God through men inspired by the Holy Spirit to speak and write it. But how can that be because what they claim contradicts what is written in the Law presented in the Bible? There is a major contradiction between religious leader theology and the word of God. My attempts to get even one Christian religious leader to acknowledge and address this contradiction has been unsuccessful.

And Jesus also said the words of the apostles were his words (Lk 10:16), thereby making the words of the apostles also the word of God.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Jesus himself appointed the apostles to lay the foundation of HIS church.

John 16:13 "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come."

Jesus is talking to his disciples (John 15:26-27) and repeated through John 14:26 and proven through John 20:22). You can go through the Olivet Discourse content in Mark, and Jesus actually assigned four disciples to be his specific eyewitnesses.

Acts 1:8 "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come up on you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Who wrote this? It wasn't a disciple or someone who even knew Jesus. It is second hand information at best and doesn't qualify as testimony.

Eph 2:19-22 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole Structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

Paul cannot validate his words to be the word of God.

Jesus was with them for forty days between the resurrection and his ascension. Teaching. There were things that could not be fully understood until after his crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension. The only criteria God gives to be able to speak the word of God, is God appointing them to do so. We do not set boundaries around God.

Where has Jesus appointed anyone to speak for God? Citation please?

What is the contradiction?

What is the contradiction? What is religious leader theology? Who are the religious leaders you refer to. And why did you say in the welcome thread that you believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God, and here are trying to make it not inerrant but in fact contradictory?

I said the Bible contains the inerrant word of God but it is not in its' present form the inerrant word of God because there are words from some who have no authorization from God to speak for him.

 

[JustTheFacts]

It's not bad news fastfredy0 because God knows everything and ensured we have the required testimony to prove to the world that Jesus is the Messiah and God.

 

[makesends]

Jesus is talking to his disciples (John 15:26-27) and repeated through John 14:26 and proven through John 20:22). You can go through the Olivet Discourse content in Mark, and Jesus actually assigned four disciples to be his specific eyewitnesses.

Who wrote this? It wasn't a disciple or someone who even knew Jesus. It is second hand information at best and doesn't qualify as testimony.

Paul cannot validate his words to be the word of God.

Where has Jesus appointed anyone to speak for God? Citation please?

I said the Bible contains the inerrant word of God but it is not in its' present form the inerrant word of God because there are words from some who have no authorization from God to speak for him.

Do you claim to speak for God?

 

[JustTheFacts]

Do you claim to speak for God?

I'm not sure why you think that, but I don't meet the qualifications so no I don't speak for God.

 

[makesends]

I'm not sure why you think that, but I don't meet the qualifications so no I don't speak for God.

Yet you want us to take your word, spoken on your own authority as an expert on use of evidence, (and in that other thread, not only an expert but, you tell us, the Spirit helped you figure out prophecy), over the word of apostles who have for hundreds of years been recognized by Orthodoxy to speak the very words of God.

The discontinuity of argument will ensue, if you try to prove something by your use of Scripture, or by your use of things (arguments, conclusions, evidences) that counter Scripture, when your opposition depends on Sola Scriptura and you do not.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I'm not sure why you think that, but I don't meet the qualifications so no I don't speak for God.

You come in your own name, on your own authority.

Jesus very clearly told us who we could trust to speak the word of God:

"The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood." John 7:18


Who are you to dismiss an apostle sent by God and confirmed by the Disciples and Apostles of Christ during their lifetimes?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Jesus stated we can trust his words as the word of God. The first and primary source of the word of God in the Bible is Jesus himself. Jesus claimed that God sent him to the world and gave him the words that he spoke. Very clearly Jesus stated that his words came from God whom he referred to as his Father. But then Jesus went past claiming that God was his Father, he told the world that he and God were equals:

“I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)

Jesus stated that his words came from God because he IS God. Jesus also described his words as having power that could only come from God:

John Calvin commentary Hebrews 1:1-2 (only a small portion for brevity)

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"

Hebrews 1:1-2

1. God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

1. Deus olim multifariam multisque modis loquutus patribus per prophetas,

2. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

2. Extremis hisce diebus loquutus est nobis per Filium, quem constituit haeredem omnium, per quem etiam secula condidit.

[...] For the diversity as to visions and other means adopted under the Old Testament, was an indication that it was not yet a fixed state of things, as when matters are put completely in order. Hence he says, multifariously and in many ways". God would have indeed followed the same mode perpetually to the end, had the mode been perfect and complete. It hence follows, that this variety was an evidence of imperfection.[....]

[8] And when he speaks of the last times, he intimates that there is no longer any reason to expect any new revelation; for it was not a word in part that Christ brought, but the final conclusion. It is in this sense that the Apostles take the last times and the last days. And Paul means the same when he says, "Upon whom the ends of the world are come." (1 Corinthians 10:11.) If God then has spoken now for the last time, it is right to advance thus far; so also when you come to Christ, you ought not to go farther: and these two things it is very needful for us to know."

Jesus Christ is the closing of all new revelation, because He is the final revelation of God to man.

Any vision that doesn't confirm all that came before is a lying vision...

Historical Context: In first-century Judaism, Rabbis who possessed smikah were recognized as having unique authority to offer new interpretations of the Law (Torah). They were rare and esteemed, confirmed by the Sanhedrin or other religious authority after demonstrating mastery of the Scriptures and deep insight.

Jesus’ Authority: Jesus bypasses this traditional process. He does not receive His authority from men. Instead, He teaches as one who has authority in Himself:

“And they were astonished at his teaching, for he taught them as one who had authority, and not as the scribes.” – Mark 1:22

This is what all the conversations were about concerning where Jesus received His authority - it was because He held smikah.

Jesus' miracles confirmed His authority as being from God. All the Apostles performed miracles as well to confirm their authority as being from Jesus.

The canon is closed.

 

[JustTheFacts]

You come in your own name, on your own authority.

And what is it that I'm doing that causes you grief?

"The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood." John 7:18

How am I seeking "glory?" I quoted the Law from Deuteronomy, so how can you conclude that "I speak on my own authority?" I don't claim any authority.

Who are you to dismiss an apostle sent by God and confirmed by the Disciples and Apostles of Christ during their lifetimes?

I could say the same thing about you and others. Who are you to claim that Paul is an apostle sent by God? God gave you the specific requirements for people to be able to speak for him, and I can't find that Paul has met those requirements. Can you? If you can, please share the information because I'm all ears.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Yet you want us to take your word, spoken on your own authority as an expert on use of evidence, (and in that other thread, not only an expert but, you tell us, the Spirit helped you figure out prophecy), over the word of apostles who have for hundreds of years been recognized by Orthodoxy to speak the very words of God.

The discontinuity of argument will ensue, if you try to prove something by your use of Scripture, or by your use of things (arguments, conclusions, evidences) that counter Scripture, when your opposition depends on Sola Scriptura and you do not.

I don't want you to take my word, I want you to read God's Law and tell me why you are rejecting God's Law to support Sola Scriptura. The Law in my opinion is very clear. God never said the Bible is the inerrant word of God, men packaged up the Bible and told you that. Are you going to believe men or God?

 

[JustTheFacts]

John Calvin commentary Hebrews 1:1-2 (only a small portion for brevity)

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"

Who wrote Hebrews and where did they get the authority to speak for God. People here keep questioning my authority and I haven't claimed anything with my words. BTW, I agree with whats written there in Hebrews. I'm not contesting the content, I'm contesting your treatment of it as the word of God.

Jesus Christ is the closing of all new revelation, because He is the final revelation of God to man.

Any vision that doesn't confirm all that came before is a lying vision...

Amen to both of these. The visions and help I've received prove Jesus to the world through evidence....not theology. You would think every Christian would be interested.

Historical Context: In first-century Judaism, Rabbis who possessed smikah were recognized as having unique authority to offer new interpretations of the Law (Torah). They were rare and esteemed, confirmed by the Sanhedrin or other religious authority after demonstrating mastery of the Scriptures and deep insight.

Jesus’ Authority: Jesus bypasses this traditional process. He does not receive His authority from men. Instead, He teaches as one who has authority in Himself:

“And they were astonished at his teaching, for he taught them as one who had authority, and not as the scribes.” – Mark 1:22

This is what all the conversations were about concerning where Jesus received His authority - it was because He held smikah.

Jesus' miracles confirmed His authority as being from God. All the Apostles performed miracles as well to confirm their authority as being from Jesus.

The canon is closed.

I believe that was in my summary--Jesus claimed his authority from God and proved it through miracles.

 

[ReverendRV]

I don't want you to take my word, I want you to read God's Law and tell me why you are rejecting God's Law to support Sola Scriptura. The Law in my opinion is very clear. God never said the Bible is the inerrant word of God, men packaged up the Bible and told you that. Are you going to believe men or God?

It's nice to meet you @JustTheFacts . I hope you enjoy CCAM Forums. I think I may be able to get to the heart of the matter; IE the Spiritual Gift of Teaching. Do Sound Theologians speak for God; in any sense of being an Instrument of God's Earthly Ministry?

Are you a Gnostic? I like to zero-in; answering that yea or nay will help us communicate...

 

[Soyeong]

Jesus very clearly told us who we could trust to speak the word of God:

Likewise, in Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed His children to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they teach against obeying the Law of Moses, so it is either incorrect to interpret Jesus and the authors of the NT as doing that (my position) or they were false prophets. Jesus at the NT authors quoted from the OT hundreds of times in order to support what they were saying, such as with Jesus quoting three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, including saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes the mouth of God, so there is no room for someone to think that we should follow what they said while also thinking that they should be interpreted in a way that turns them against following what they quoted from as an authoritative source.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Yet you want us to take your word, spoken on your own authority as an expert on use of evidence, (and in that other thread, not only an expert but, you tell us, the Spirit helped you figure out prophecy), over the word of apostles who have for hundreds of years been recognized by Orthodoxy to speak the very words of God
The discontinuity of argument will ensue, if you try to prove something by your use of Scripture, or by your use of things (arguments, conclusions, evidences) that counter Scripture, when your opposition depends on Sola Scriptura and you do not.

I am an expert on evidence. I also stand behind the claim that the Holy Spirit has been helping me through my investigation. I couldn't have done the work I've done without God.

Do you want me to reject what John and Moses wrote to believe others because many other believed them? John wrote that NONE of them were following the disciples--this was a coup. Who do you think killed the disciples? I would question my own findings and conclusions were it not for prophecy proving them to be right. Do you want me to reject the Law through Moses to accept Sola Scriptura that is not following the word of God?

 

[JustTheFacts]

It's nice to meet you @JustTheFacts . I hope you enjoy CCAM Forums. I think I may be able to get to the heart of the matter; IE the Spiritual Gift of Teaching. Do Sound Theologians speak for God; in any sense of being an Instrument of God's Earthly Ministry?

Are you a Gnostic? I like to zero-in; answering that yea or nay will help us communicate...

Hello ReverendRV. When I read your username I think of a drummer I met in Florida who plays in a band called RV Bandwagon.

I was agnostic until my mid-20s when God showed me in a blunt way that he existed. I never doubted God's existence again. Now that I've looked back on my life, I was stupid for not recognizing God earlier.

God gave me a gift for solving puzzles. Not sure about other gifts but I'm certain God works through people.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Likewise, in Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed His children to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they teach against obeying the Law of Moses, so it is either incorrect to interpret Jesus and the authors of the NT as doing that (my position) or they were false prophets. Jesus at the NT authors quoted from the OT hundreds of times in order to support what they were saying, such as with Jesus quoting three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, including saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes the mouth of God, so there is no room for someone to think that we should follow what they said while also thinking that they should be interpreted in a way that turns them against following what they quoted from as an authoritative source.

Sorry Soyeong, I'm not understanding what you are getting at. Please list the word of God you are referencing and explain how it impacts the definition of the word of God.

 

[ReverendRV]

Hello ReverendRV. When I read your username I think of a drummer I met in Florida who plays in a band called RV Bandwagon.

I was agnostic until my mid-20s when God showed me in a blunt way that he existed. I never doubted God's existence again. Now that I've looked back on my life, I was stupid for not recognizing God earlier.

God gave me a gift for solving puzzles. Not sure about other gifts but I'm certain God works through people.

I gave myself the Username ReverendRV, because I want to be a traveling Evangelist living in an RV...

I think I'm seeing that you disagree the Epistle to the Hebrews is Cannonical. I would wonder Why? Evangelicals use the Hermeneutic that Christ's Sheep Hear his Voice; and will not follow another. Meaning, we Know Christ is speaking to Us through the Book of Hebrews...

It's summed up well in the 2nd LBCF C1 P4; "The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, depends not upon the testimony of any man or church, but wholly upon God (who is truth itself), the author thereof; therefore it is to be received because it is the Word of God."... Of the Holy Scriptures — The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith


Did you consider this in your Investigation? It's true of the Gospels; right? For you to make headway with Us, you will have to deal with this in your Investigation...

 

[JustTheFacts]

I gave myself the Username ReverendRV, because I want to be a traveling Evangelist living in an RV...

That was my assumption. Congrats for doing God's work!

I think I'm seeing that you disagree the Epistle to the Hebrews is Cannonical. I would wonder Why? Evangelicals use the Hermeneutic that Christ's Sheep Hear his Voice; and will not follow another. Meaning, we Know Christ is speaking to Us through the Book of Hebrews...

It's summed up well in the 2nd LBCF C1 P4; "The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, depends not upon the testimony of any man or church, but wholly upon God (who is truth itself), the author thereof; therefore it is to be received because it is the Word of God."... Of the Holy Scriptures — The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith

I agreed with most NT letter documentation. I just believe that it is not the word of God. The words of Moses and Jesus are very specific on that. That's a big distinction. If something is the word of God it goes on the shelf with the words of Moses, Jesus, and the OT prophets so every word will complement other words of God. No word of God will contradict other words of God--if we see a contradiction we are missing something and need to solve the puzzle.

With this a foundation, every contradiction will be resolved and the word of God clearly understood. The fact is I find corruption in fraud in the Bible. But every issue I find can be explained through reason. For example, Matthew 16:18-19 as I commented earlier is a fabrication. Peter walking on water is a fabrication too. Both of these are presented in the Gospel of Matthew and there is specific reasons why that Gospel was impacted.

Jesus said, his words will outlive heaven and earth--and I take this to heart. The words of Jesus have not been affected by fraud or corruption. However, that doesn't mean that key words haven't been added to change a message--like promoting Peter as the leader of the Church. Clear Motive and clear indications of fraud in those sections.