First-Order Logic

[Mr GLee]

Yes, I understand this part. And identifying who one is discussing this with is also key to establishing the epistemology warrant for Christology. We cannot take it for granted that everyone agrees on how we can and do come to know who Jesus is. In fact, the possibility of objective truth is questioned openly in today's world. It is difficult to jump into the propositional statements about the identify of Jesus Christ without first providing a well-reasoned account for how we can know anything about him. To unearth the epistemological roots of current confusion regarding the identity of Jesus Christ and present that a Christology is from above, namely a Christology grounded in Scripture, is what is necessary for a truly evangelical Christology.
​

The Word Became Flesh​

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 14:8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.

I know I am preaching to choir, I am just adding my two wooden cents here. But you are using FOL equations relating to Scripture. Can you expand upon this a bit further for me, thanks in advance.​

It would seem you are not using the word faith as power from God correctly. A study in the word "faith" and how "it" is used can help .

We can as born agin believers see can the hidden things of God, a God who hide from those in darkness . giving the light of the gospel born agin

Isaiah 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Psalm 119:18Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

Psalm 146: The Lord openeth the eyes of the blind: the Lord raiseth them that are bowed down: the Lord loveth the righteous:

Isaiah 45:15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

If you have seen the Son of man jesus. . you have witness the power of the Holy Father understanding of faith.

God is not a man as us. No need for a man to teach. We preach he does all the teaching .

 

[Ladodgers6]

It would seem you are not using the word faith as power from God correctly. A study in the word "faith" and how "it" is used can help .

We can as born agin believers see can the hidden things of God, a God who hide from those in darkness . giving the light of the gospel born agin

Isaiah 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Psalm 119:18Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

Psalm 146: The Lord openeth the eyes of the blind: the Lord raiseth them that are bowed down: the Lord loveth the righteous:

Isaiah 45:15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

If you have seen the Son of man jesus. . you have witness the power of the Holy Father understanding of faith.

God is not a man as us. No need for a man to teach. We preach he does all the teaching .

You do not understand me and what I wrote. You need to take a minute and try to understand it.

 

[Binyawmene]

Yes, I understand this part. And identifying who one is discussing this with is also key to establishing the epistemology warrant for Christology. We cannot take it for granted that everyone agrees on how we can and do come to know who Jesus is. In fact, the possibility of objective truth is questioned openly in today's world. It is difficult to jump into the propositional statements about the identify of Jesus Christ without first providing a well-reasoned account for how we can know anything about him. To unearth the epistemological roots of current confusion regarding the identity of Jesus Christ and present that a Christology is from above, namely a Christology grounded in Scripture, is what is necessary for a truly evangelical Christology.
​

The Word Became Flesh​

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 14:8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.

I know I am preaching to choir, I am just adding my two wooden cents here.​

Excellent.

But you are using FOL equations relating to Scripture.​

Why not? As Christians we must be like the Berean Jews and we are encourage to examine the Scriptures as a whole (Acts 17:11). Now what if someone ask: "Is the phrase, 'both God and Man' Scriptural?" Those are meaningful and valid questions to ask. My answer is, Yes, although you will not find that phraseology specifically stated in Scriptures, but the meaning of the phrase is 'drawn out' from the whole of Scriptures exegetically. The whole of Scripture reveals this specific structural pattern G, M |- G ^ M and I've identified it as a logical conjunction.

Conjunction Introduction (^I): G, M |- G ^ M

Jesus Christ is God (2 Peter 1:1, Titus 2:13).
Jesus Christ is man (Acts 2:22, 1 Timothy 2:5).
Therefore, Jesus Christ is both God and man.​

Logically, the "And-IN" rules, states: "From both G and M derives G ^ M"

The logical conjunction isn't just limited to the phrase "both God and Man" when referring to Jesus Christ in Scriptures. There is also another structural pattern found in Scriptures of Jesus Christ's Divine attributes as God and Human attributes as Man. For example, this is evident from the fact that Jesus Christ has divine intelligence being omniscient and his human intelligence that increased. You can also say, "Jesus Christ is"... "both omniscient and ignorant," "both omnipresent and localized," and "both omnipotent and powerless". The list goes on and on. From a logical standpoint, a conjunction is most effective and better approach Scripturally. Because, again, the meaning of a certain phraseology is 'drawn out' from the whole of Scriptures exegetically. If we know "this" and we know "that" about Jesus Christ, then Scriptures as a whole don't contradict but harmonizes.

Can you expand upon this a bit further for me, thanks in advance.​

I suppose it would help if we define what is logic.

"...logic is the study of how to tell a good argument from a bad one." (Logic For Dummies, by Mark Zegarelli, p. 33)

"Logic us the study of arguments." (Schaum's Outlines: Logic, by John Nolt, Dennis Rohatyn, Achille Varzi, p. 1)

"The word logic means rational argumentation." (An Introduction to Formal Logic, Dr. Steven Gimbel, p. 12)

"Logic involves the study of arguments and their use in reasoning." (Logic Demystified, by Anthony Boutelle, Stan Gibilisco, p. 1)​

For me, personally, I define logic as an art for logical analytical critique and assessment of arguments. Did you ever wonder if the Hypostatic Union framework, such as "both God and Man" is logical or contradictory? Using logic can help you evaluate this in the accordance to Scriptures and not outside of Scriptures. The things is, the doctrine is not some kind of logical diagram drawings or a theoretical model hinged upon philosophical constructs. As a matter of fact, there is not even an accurate analogy description. Although, from a Scriptural standpoint we want to visualize the logic being demonstrated, so we use mental constructs like a circle or two circles, or the Trinity as three circles/triangle, etc. or whatever being used. So, using logical diagrams are useful for mental and visualization because they demonstrate for us illustrations and symbolic representations to input information in a rational way.

 

[Binyawmene]

The first order "let there be" the evidence "it was God alone good".

We can love Him only because he first loved us giving's us His unseen understanding as of labor of love as a work of his faith If He did not love us first turning us towards him .Then we are still in our sin

It's obvious that you don't understand the scope of discussion.

 

[Ladodgers6]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing that me. I can make out some of the equations meaning like G (God) and M (Man) I will research the rest of it to get a footing.

To use the words of Aquinas and Calvin, each divine person is a "subsisting relation." The three divine persons are relations that subsist in God's single essence. Moreover, each divine person, "while related to the others, is distinguishable by an incommunicable quality." And the incommunicable personal property that distinguishes the divine persons is the ad intra relationship between the persons that manifest in God's ad extra actions. So the Father is distinguished by the personal property of paternity; the Son by sonship (or eternal generation); and the Spirit by eternal procession. Divine persons, unlike human persons, subsist in the same identical divine nature. And because they possess the single, same nature equally, the Father, Son, and Spirit must be distinguished as persons by their different modes of subsistence:the Father subsists in the divine nature as the Father; the Son subsists as the Son; and the Spirit subsists as the Spirit.

Communicable attributes of God are those that humans can also possess, although only to a finite extent. If something is communicable, it is able to be communicated or transmitted to others. Incommunicable attributes of God are those attributes exclusive to Him. Humans cannot share the incommunicable attributes of divinity.

God’s incommunicable attributes are those characteristics that cannot be shared with His creatures. God’s incommunicable attributes are things that only God can have and that make Him distinct from creation. For example, God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, sovereign, transcendent, immutable and self-existent.


​

 

[Binyawmene]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing that me.

You're welcome. If you are interested in logic, then I can suggest some books.

Logic For Dummies, by Mark Zegarelli

Symbolic Logic, by Gary M. Hardegree

Both Introductory Logic and Intermediate Logic

That is what has help me understand logic. I don't know which doctrine you want to use logic for, but for me, I use logic for the Hypostatic Union. Through my many years of Hypostatic Union debates. The most famous of them all is a topic on contradictions. And the majority of them that bring up contradictions doesn't know what the Hypostatic Union doctrine actually teaches. Nor do they know how to define a negation or even know how to negate a logical conjunction. Its almost like they read a Wikipedia article online or some kind of anti-Trinity article, and then, automatically think they are masters in the discipline of logic. Most try to negate a logical conjunction with the law of non-contradiction. Funny right? But that's not how you negate a logical conjunction. After you start learning logic you will find that lots of Unitarian's arguments is senseless, stupidities and illogical. They will be carry-on with the debate like nothing never happen. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

I can make out some of the equations meaning like G (God) and M (Man) I will research the rest of it to get a footing.

A logical conjunction is consisting of two statements joined by the connective "and" (a truth-functional operator ^) to form a compound sentence. For instant "Jesus Christ is God" (G) and "Jesus Christ is man" (M), therefore "Jesus Christ is both God and Man" (G^M). While the two statements flanking each other are called conjuncts. Now the word "both" is a predeterminer and always preceding the conjunction, in this particular case the conjunction is an "and," while the coordinating conjunction connects words, phrases, or sentences together called a compound sentence.

Conjunction G ^ M
Jesus Christ is both God and Man.
Conjunct G
Jesus Christ is God
Conjunct M
Jesus Christ is Man

The Logical Conjunction rules, states: "The whole conjunction G ^ M is true, that's if both conjuncts are true, otherwise, the whole conjunction is automatically false".

For the chart below
p = for G
q = for M
p ^ q for G ^ M

Conjunction Truth Table

- Interpretation -

Row 1: The whole conjunction G ^ M is true, only if both G is true and M is true.
Row 2: The whole conjunction G ^ M is False, only if G is true and M is false.
Row 3: The whole conjunction G ^ M is False, only if G is false and M is true.
Row 4: The whole conjunction G ^ M is false, only if both G is false and M is false.

Conjunction Introduction (^I): G, M |- G ^ M

Conjunct: Jesus Christ is God (2 Peter 1:1, Titus 2:13). True
Conjunct: Jesus Christ is man (Acts 2:22, 1 Timothy 2:5). True
Conjunction: Therefore, Jesus Christ is both God and man. True

 

[Mr GLee]

You do not understand me and what I wrote. You need to take a minute and try to understand it.

I understand what you are trying to say God as Christ is the infalible teacher as a man

God literately has no face he remains the invisible head .

 

[Mr GLee]

You're welcome. If you are interested in logic, then I can suggest some books.

Logic For Dummies, by Mark Zegarelli

Symbolic Logic, by Gary M. Hardegree

Both Introductory Logic and Intermediate Logic

That is what has help me understand logic. I don't know which doctrine you want to use logic for, but for me, I use logic for the Hypostatic Union. Through my many years of Hypostatic Union debates. The most famous of them all is a topic on contradictions. And the majority of them that bring up contradictions doesn't know what the Hypostatic Union doctrine actually teaches. Nor do they know how to define a negation or even know how to negate a logical conjunction. Its almost like they read a Wikipedia article online or some kind of anti-Trinity article, and then, automatically think they are masters in the discipline of logic. Most try to negate a logical conjunction with the law of non-contradiction. Funny right? But that's not how you negate a logical conjunction. After you start learning logic you will find that lots of Unitarian's arguments is senseless, stupidities and illogical. They will be carry-on with the debate like nothing never happen. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.



A logical conjunction is consisting of two statements joined by the connective "and" (a truth-functional operator ^) to form a compound sentence. For instant "Jesus Christ is God" (G) and "Jesus Christ is man" (M), therefore "Jesus Christ is both God and Man" (G^M). While the two statements flanking each other are called conjuncts. Now the word "both" is a predeterminer and always preceding the conjunction, in this particular case the conjunction is an "and," while the coordinating conjunction connects words, phrases, or sentences together called a compound sentence.

Conjunction G ^ M
Jesus Christ is both God and Man.
Conjunct G
Jesus Christ is God
Conjunct M
Jesus Christ is Man

The Logical Conjunction rules, states: "The whole conjunction G ^ M is true, that's if both conjuncts are true, otherwise, the whole conjunction is automatically false".

For the chart below
p = for G
q = for M
p ^ q for G ^ M

Conjunction Truth Table

- Interpretation -

Row 1: The whole conjunction G ^ M is true, only if both G is true and M is true.
Row 2: The whole conjunction G ^ M is False, only if G is true and M is false.
Row 3: The whole conjunction G ^ M is False, only if G is false and M is true.
Row 4: The whole conjunction G ^ M is false, only if both G is false and M is false.

Conjunction Introduction (^I): G, M |- G ^ M

Conjunct: Jesus Christ is God (2 Peter 1:1, Titus 2:13). True
Conjunct: Jesus Christ is man (Acts 2:22, 1 Timothy 2:5). True
Conjunction: Therefore, Jesus Christ is both God and man. True

God is not a man as us .Never was never could be

Jesus the Christ. The one good teaching master worked in Jesus the Son of man just as he mightyfully works in all born again sons of God from above ..

One person thought there was no difference between the invisible faithful Creator as eternal God and the son of man dying mankind .he to prove his confusion bowed down to worship his dying flesh The Son of man our brother in the Lord would never sit in the place of the invisible head .

One is Christ as the teaching Lord

Mark 10:17-18King James Version And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God

.Jesus the Son of man would never blaspheme the invisible power of our Lord

 

[Binyawmene]

God is not a man as us .Never was never could be

Straw man. The Hypostatic Union doesn't teach "God is a man." It's a union of "God and man" in the person of Jesus Christ. I encourage you to study before you engage into Hypostatic Union discussions.

 

[Ladodgers6]

You're welcome. If you are interested in logic, then I can suggest some books.

Logic For Dummies, by Mark Zegarelli

Symbolic Logic, by Gary M. Hardegree

Both Introductory Logic and Intermediate Logic

That is what has help me understand logic. I don't know which doctrine you want to use logic for, but for me, I use logic for the Hypostatic Union. Through my many years of Hypostatic Union debates. The most famous of them all is a topic on contradictions. And the majority of them that bring up contradictions doesn't know what the Hypostatic Union doctrine actually teaches. Nor do they know how to define a negation or even know how to negate a logical conjunction. Its almost like they read a Wikipedia article online or some kind of anti-Trinity article, and then, automatically think they are masters in the discipline of logic. Most try to negate a logical conjunction with the law of non-contradiction. Funny right? But that's not how you negate a logical conjunction. After you start learning logic you will find that lots of Unitarian's arguments is senseless, stupidities and illogical. They will be carry-on with the debate like nothing never happen. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.



A logical conjunction is consisting of two statements joined by the connective "and" (a truth-functional operator ^) to form a compound sentence. For instant "Jesus Christ is God" (G) and "Jesus Christ is man" (M), therefore "Jesus Christ is both God and Man" (G^M). While the two statements flanking each other are called conjuncts. Now the word "both" is a predeterminer and always preceding the conjunction, in this particular case the conjunction is an "and," while the coordinating conjunction connects words, phrases, or sentences together called a compound sentence.

Conjunction G ^ M
Jesus Christ is both God and Man.
Conjunct G
Jesus Christ is God
Conjunct M
Jesus Christ is Man

The Logical Conjunction rules, states: "The whole conjunction G ^ M is true, that's if both conjuncts are true, otherwise, the whole conjunction is automatically false".

For the chart below
p = for G
q = for M
p ^ q for G ^ M

Conjunction Truth Table

- Interpretation -

Row 1: The whole conjunction G ^ M is true, only if both G is true and M is true.
Row 2: The whole conjunction G ^ M is False, only if G is true and M is false.
Row 3: The whole conjunction G ^ M is False, only if G is false and M is true.
Row 4: The whole conjunction G ^ M is false, only if both G is false and M is false.

Conjunction Introduction (^I): G, M |- G ^ M

Conjunct: Jesus Christ is God (2 Peter 1:1, Titus 2:13). True
Conjunct: Jesus Christ is man (Acts 2:22, 1 Timothy 2:5). True
Conjunction: Therefore, Jesus Christ is both God and man. True

Very nice, thanks, I appreciate this.

 

[Mr GLee]

Straw man. The Hypostatic Union doesn't teach "God is a man." It's a union of "God and man" in the person of Jesus Christ. I encourage you to study before you engage into Hypostatic Union discussions.

Hi thanks ..

Hypostatic union is a oral tradition of dying mankind . The idea is used to describe the union of Christ's humanity and divinity in one
God has no humanity A Spirit has not flesh and bloo. Hisholy spirt give s spirt life that wil never die d

Its a false doctrine needed to introduce a queen mother of heaven concept along with limbo the wondering oral tradition of dying mankind .

Christ is the Father and not humanity the Son of man Jesus dying flesh that he says profits for zero dead he remains separate as far as east from the west God is not a man as us (job 9: God not seen alone good . The creation did not create itself.

Christ is the "let there be" as a law of his belief (faith) not gods attributed to the clay. If the authroity came from the clay that would take away the understanding of the holy Potter giving it to anti-christ false apostles sent with false prophecy (oral traditions) laws of dying mankind called fathers

Job 9: 32-33 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman (Pope) betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both

Pagan foundation everything that glitters as gods of this world a legion they call good . To them God the Creator is . . "out of sight out of mind" Like with Cain the murderer; I know not where my brother is ? Do you see him .;or do you think you can see through steel as some sort of supergod (the foolish father of lies) He is our eternal Super God . . . Lok up from ehere our hepl comes from

We do not become one new creature without a promised new incorruptible body. new creation with a new body. as Sons of God we are not what we will be . . . we walk by faith the unseen things of God a living abiding faith not of our own


Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

 

[Binyawmene]

Hi thanks ..

Hypostatic union is a oral tradition of dying mankind . The idea is used to describe the union of Christ's humanity and divinity in one

Straw man, again. Try learning the doctrine first before you engage in discussions.

God has no humanity A Spirit has not flesh and bloo. Hisholy spirt give s spirt life that wil never die d

English might not be your first language. But least try to write a coherent sentence.

 

[Binyawmene]

To use the words of Aquinas and Calvin, each divine person is a "subsisting relation." The three divine persons are relations that subsist in God's single essence. Moreover, each divine person, "while related to the others, is distinguishable by an incommunicable quality." And the incommunicable personal property that distinguishes the divine persons is the ad intra relationship between the persons that manifest in God's ad extra actions. So the Father is distinguished by the personal property of paternity; the Son by sonship (or eternal generation); and the Spirit by eternal procession. Divine persons, unlike human persons, subsist in the same identical divine nature. And because they possess the single, same nature equally, the Father, Son, and Spirit must be distinguished as persons by their different modes of subsistence: the Father subsists in the divine nature as the Father; the Son subsists as the Son; and the Spirit subsists as the Spirit.

Glad to know that you understand the Trinity. I've made a similar post on eternal relations.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Glad to know that you understand the Trinity. I've made a similar post on eternal relations.

Check out https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/my-take-on-trinity.1759/

 

[Mr GLee]

Straw man, again. Try learning the doctrine first before you engage in discussions.



English might not be your first language. But least try to write a coherent sentence.

Its easy to see .Dying flesh and blood did give birth to Spirit. God is not born of man.

Romans 1: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature dying mankind Jesus the Son of man . . . more than the Creator,(eternal God) who is blessed for ever. Amen.

I am waiting for you to engage . God is still not a dying creation.

A Pagan tradition if god is out of sight he is out of mind