Does Justification spell the forgiveness of a believer's future sins?

[Carbon]

For many, this has been a confusing subject. Confusion is mainly in the view that justification spells the forgiveness of a believer's future as well as his past sins. It does indeed seem to be a solecism that sins should be forgiven before they are committed. Forgiveness involves remission of penalty. But how can a penalty be remitted before it is incurred?

 

[Josheb]

For many, this has been a confusing subject. Confusion is mainly in the view that justification spells the forgiveness of a believer's future as well as his past sins. It does indeed seem to be a solecism that sins should be forgiven before they are committed. Forgiveness involves remission of penalty. But how can a penalty be remitted before it is incurred?

Justification "spells" forgiveness? I'm inclined to reverse the order: forgiveness provides the basis for justification. If justification is the ability to stand before God to makes one's case, then we stand before God already redeemed, already forgiven, already justified, already made righteous, and already sanctified by Jesus. That we have faith, or trust in Christ's work is also an accomplishment of God's, His having gifted us the faith we then apply to all God's claims about Himself, His Son, and ourselves. We are forgiven first by Christ, or God due to His Son's work on Calvary. We are justified first by Christ, made righteous first be Christ, and sanctified first by Christ. I cannot see that I stand before God and am then forgiven in scripture. I do find I am first forgiven and by that forgiveness am able to enter God's courtroom and serve Him. I am no longer a defendant but a servant whose debts have been paid, whose being has been washed clean of all sin, because God's own Son took my place.

As far as the forgiveness of future sins goes, there are the devices of confession, repentance, forgiveness, and reconciliation that are an ongoing part of the normal Christian life. It is difficult to fathom the need for any of it if one act by another takes care of all sin forever, but the larger truth is we will all die with unconfessed sin on our ledger and all of us have committed sins of which we're not aware. So, when Peter says we have been cleansed from past sins (2 Pet. 1:9), that cannot be read to mean only from past sins.

Ultimately, it boils down to the fact our salvation is not up to us. It's up to God. When we say, "God is faithful," there is an unstated "first" in there because God is faithful first to Himself and to His Son. God does not make worthless the price paid for our lives. Think it is up to us in any way is something to be confessed and forgiven .

Psalm 16:1-2, 6
Preserve me, O God, for I take refuge in You. I said to the LORD, "You are my Lord; I have no good besides You." As for the saints who are in the earth, they are the majestic ones in whom is all my delight. .............The LORD is the portion of my inheritance and my cup; You support my lot. The lines have fallen to me in pleasant places; Indeed, my heritage is beautiful to me.

Psalm 54:4-7
Behold, God is my helper; The Lord is the sustainer of my soul..... Willingly I will sacrifice to You; I will give thanks to Your name, O LORD, for it is good. For He has delivered me from all trouble, and my eye has looked with satisfaction upon my enemies.


(The chief enemy, of course, being sin) We have been sealed and our inheritance is secure. That alone implies all sins have been addressed.

But how can a penalty be remitted before it is incurred?

It has all occurred from God's position in eternity. For us there is the linear passage of time, the measure of cause and effect but for God a single act ordained from eternity covered all of our past, present, and future.

 

[JIM]

As far as the forgiveness of future sins goes, there are the devices of confession, repentance, forgiveness, and reconciliation that are an ongoing part of the normal Christian life. It is difficult to fathom the need for any of it if one act by another takes care of all sin forever, but the larger truth is we will all die with unconfessed sin on our ledger and all of us have committed sins of which we're not aware. So, when Peter says we have been cleansed from past sins (2 Pet. 1:9), that cannot be read to mean only from past sins.

To be Justified is a state of being for the baptized repentant believer. It is more than simply having been forgiven of past sins. It is of course that and much more. Justification is a state in which God does not charge the sins against the one justified ever again.

Rom 4:7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."

Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Josheb]

To be Justified is a state of being for the baptized repentant believer. It is more than simply having been forgiven of past sins. It is of course that and much more. Justification is a state in which God does not charge the sins against the one justified ever again.

Rom 4:7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."

Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

What Post 3 describes in the "state" of justification is all true, but that is not what justification is. This op is not about what more is justification. This op is specifically and explicitly about whether or not justification "spells" the forgiveness of future sins. Nothing more. I, therefore, wonder what you think Post 3 has to do with Post 2 because this looks like just another thread in which you've chosen not to address the op's (or its specifics) but, instead, have selected my posts for which to add a non sequitur. No one I know (syn or mono) disputes Romans 4:7 or 5:1 and neither verse says anything about future sins.

However, it does appear you agree with @Carbon and I: Once justified, the future sins of the justified believer are forgiven.

Justification is a state in which God does not charge the sins against the one justified ever again.

That is correct but it warrants clarification because everyone gets judged.

The angel is in the details because neither Romans 4:7 or 5:1 can be made to contradict a host of verses found in scripture that tell us we will have to give an account for everything we say and do, like Ecclesiastes12:14, Psalm 62:12, Hebrews 9:27, Matthew 12:36, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Revelation 20:12, or 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. Everyone gets judged. The difference is that because God has delivered the Christian through His resurrected Son, there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. Judged, but not condemned. Charged and required to give an account but not held accountable.


Romans 8:31-39 ESV
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.


The Plaintiff, the one who brings charges against a defendant, is the one who hung on the cross for us. Praise God! Having been justified, there is no condemnation and nothing that can separate us from the love of God that is found in His resurrected and ascendent Son.

 

[JIM]

What Post 3 describes in the "state" of justification is all true, but that is not what justification is. This op is not about what more is justification. This op is specifically and explicitly about whether or not justification "spells" the forgiveness of future sins. Nothing more. I, therefore, wonder what you think Post 3 has to do with Post 2 because this looks like just another thread in which you've chosen not to address the op's (or its specifics) but, instead, have selected my posts for which to add a non sequitur. No one I know (syn or mono) disputes Romans 4:7 or 5:1 and neither verse says anything about future sins.

However, it does appear you agree with @Carbon and I: Once justified, the future sins of the justified believer are forgiven.

That is correct but it warrants clarification because everyone gets judged.

The angel is in the details because neither Romans 4:7 or 5:1 can be made to contradict a host of verses found in scripture that tell us we will have to give an account for everything we say and do, like Ecclesiastes12:14, Psalm 62:12, Hebrews 9:27, Matthew 12:36, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Revelation 20:12, or 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. Everyone gets judged. The difference is that because God has delivered the Christian through His resurrected Son, there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. Judged, but not condemned. Charged and required to give an account but not held accountable.


Romans 8:31-39 ESV
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.


The Plaintiff, the one who brings charges against a defendant, is the one who hung on the cross for us. Praise God! Having been justified, there is no condemnation and nothing that can separate us from the love of God that is found in His resurrected and ascendent Son.

I think you just like to complain about my posts. Other than that, what has this post to do with the OP? What as this post to do with my post other than complain?

 

[Josheb]

I think you just like to complain about my posts.

Relevance to the op?

Other than that, what has this post to do with the OP?

Post 4 clarifies the matter of future forgiveness relevant to justification knowing we will all, in fact, have to stand before God to be judged and account for our words and deeds. Definitions of justification vary. Scripture presents it as a legal condition, a condition (or state) in which a person has standing, or the ability to stand before God and plea his/her case. Those not in Christ have no such standing. They have no justification. They have already been condemned. The question this op asks specifically pertains to justification's ability to remit sins not yet committed. The observation that justification is a state, a pervasive state found in Christ is a good and commendable one, but the observation was poorly expressed by the use of verses that say nothing about future sins and unsupported comments about sins not being charged.

What as this post to do with my post other than complain?

That question was answered before it was asked. Post 4 clarifies the matter of "charges," and the misuse of scripture found in Post 3.


Apply the same comment and ask the same exact questions of Post 5 to Post 5 .

 

[JIM]

Relevance to the op?

The relevance is a much to the op as your constant arranging.

Post 4 clarifies the matter of future forgiveness relevant to justification knowing we will all, in fact, have to stand before God to be judged and account for our words and deeds. Definitions of justification vary. Scripture presents it as a legal condition, a condition (or state) in which a person has standing, or the ability to stand before God and plea his/her case. Those not in Christ have no such standing. They have no justification. They have already been condemned. The question this op asks specifically pertains to justification's ability to remit sins not yet committed. The observation that justification is a state, a pervasive state found in Christ is a good and commendable one, but the observation was poorly expressed by the use of verses that say nothing about future sins and unsupported comments about sins not being charged.

If justification is a state of being as I stated, then obviously all future sins must be forgiven. Any not forgiven means that justification is some on-again-off-again condition, all quite in conflict with scripture. Again, faith is the key.

 

[Josheb]

If justification is a state of being as I stated, then obviously all future sins must be forgiven. Any not forgiven means that justification is some on-again-off-again condition, all quite in conflict with scripture. Again, faith is the key.

Then are your answers to the questions asked in this op are "Yes, justification spells forgiveness for future sins of the believer," and "Sins can be preemptively remitted because of the sufficiency of justification"?

 

[CrowCross]

justification spells the forgiveness of a believer's future as well as his past sins

True

The relevance is a much to the op as your constant arranging.

If justification is a state of being as I stated, then obviously all future sins must be forgiven. Any not forgiven means that justification is some on-again-off-again condition, all quite in conflict with scripture. Again, faith is the key.

I agree. All sins, past, present and future are forgiven

 

[JIM]

Then are your answers to the questions asked in this op are "Yes, justification spells forgiveness for future sins of the believer," and "Sins can be preemptively remitted because of the sufficiency of justification"?

Do you not understand my response? What is it about you that feels the need to rewrite it?

 

[Josheb]

Do you not understand my response?

Yes

What is it about you that feels the need to rewrite it?

Nothing.


Thank you for your time, but I can see from the posts there's no interest in discussing the op so I will move on.

 

[JIM]

Yes

Yes you did not understand my response?

Nothing.

But you just did it anyway. Why?

Thank you for your time, but I can see from the posts there's no interest in discussing the op so I will move on.

I responded to the op directly in Reply #3, but I guess you didn't like the way I worded that one either.

 

[Eleanor]

For many, this has been a confusing subject. Confusion is mainly in the view that justification spells the forgiveness of a believer's future as well as his past sins. It does indeed seem to be a solecism that sins should be forgiven before they are committed. Forgiveness involves remission of penalty. But how can a penalty be remitted before it is incurred?

For starters, justification is not the remission of sin. That is salvation.

And salvation is the remission, through faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ, of God's penalty (judgment) at the Final Judgment on one's sin.

The forgiveness of sin in salvation renders one sinless, but sinlessness is not righteousness, it is simply the absence of sin.
Therefore, a forensic (not actual) righteousness is imputed to the forgiven in justification, which actual righteousness (sanctification) comes through obedience in the Holy Spirit.

 

[Papa Smurf]

Hello Brother (@Carbon), et al, this is a topic of some interest to me, due in part, I suppose, to the wide range of beliefs that are found about it within the pale of Christian orthodoxy. What was accomplished by the Lord Jesus on the Cross was the "atonement" for our sins, yes, the price that was required by God to both redeem us and to "merit" the forgiveness of our sins.

I also believe that this atoning work of His was a once for all time event, unlike our Roman Catholic friends, who believe that what the Lord Jesus accomplished on the Cross paid the price to redeem us from our sinful "nature" as infants in pedobaptism, as well to atone for any actual sins that were committed by us prior to credobaptism (if we were baptized as older children/adult believers instead). Then, after one's water baptism is completed (pedo or credo), the RC belief seems to be that good works or "works of satisfaction", performed by us, is what is required to both redeem us from and to "merit" God's forgiveness of the sins that we commit going forward (even though the Bible tells us a very different story about the atonement, our redemption and salvation, as well what is and what is not meritorious in regards to all of it .. e.g. Hebrews 9:22, 10:4).

Finally, unlike a number of folks out here in online Christendom, who seem to believe that all of our past, present and future sins were "forgiven" at the Cross, my thought is that our sins were all "atoned for" instead. This seems to fit nicely with the Apostle John's admonition to us (1 John 1:9), all of the saints of God, that is, to always confess our ongoing sins to the Lord whenever we commit them, so that we may be forgiven and cleansed of them (not with regard to salvation, of course, but rather, so that we can be restored/renewed to full fellowship with Him .. or, as King David once asked of God, "restore unto me the ~joy~ of Thy salvation", not salvation itself, which was not lost, even though his sins were grievious .. Psalm 51:12).

This is where my 'thinking' is at the moment, so please do not hesitate to point me (and my thinking) in a better direction if need be (as I believe that this is one of the topics that should always be approached with a proper amount of fear and trepidation, yes).

Thanks

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf
p.s. - I may a bit slow to reply because I am still in the midst of moving my office (something that has required far more time and effort than I was expecting it to).