CrazyCalvinistUncle
Junior
M.J. Vlach on the scripture and topic
Deuteronomy 30, the Land, and the Future of Israel
- Thread starter CrazyCalvinistUncle
- Start date
The promise of Dt 30:1-10 was fulfilled in the return from exile under Ezra and Nehemiah where the walls were rebuilt, the temple was rebuilt and the people rededicated themselves to God with much rejoicing that could be heard from afar.
Israel's destiny now is to be grafted back into the one olive tree of God's people, the church, going all the way back to
Abraham (Ro 11:16-22), IF they do not persist in unbelief (Ro 11:23), which they have for over 2,000 years now.
Israel is on the same footing as all mankind: salvation is by faith in and trust on the person and work (blood, Ro 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of one's sin.
Marilyn C
Junior
Thank you CC. it was explained very well.
Marilyn C
Junior
The root of the Olive tree is the Lord and that is who Israel will be grafted back into not US.
Marilyn C
Junior
`And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree were grafted in among them, and with them became partakers of the ROOT and fatness of the olive tree.` (Rom. 11: 17)
Not according to Ro 11:16 where the roots are the firstfruits of God's people (the tree), which are the patriarchs.
Botany 101: Branches aren't grafted into roots, they are grafted into trunks.
We're talking tree as God's people here, not as a system of life.
The roots (patriarchs) produce the trunk (Christ) in which the branches (the people of God) abide, as they do in the vine (Jn 15:5).
Don't let your eschatology govern your doctrine.
Last edited:
Good response.
That would be the benefits of the promises to the patriarchs.
It's about the origins of the people of God, being in the people of God and the benefits of being in the people of God.
Marilyn C
Junior
TRUTHNot according to Ro 11:16 where the roots are the firstfruits of God's people (the tree), which are the patriarchs.
Botany 101: Branches aren't grafted into roots, they are grafted into trunks.
We're talking tree as God's people here, not as a system of life.
The roots (patriarchs) produce the trunk (Christ) in which the branches (the people of God) abide, as they do in the vine (Jn 15:5).
Don't let your eschatology govern your doctrine.
`But now is CHRIST risen from the dead, and become the FIRSTFRUITS of those who have fallen asleep.` (1 Cor. 15: 20)
Christ is the first to have risen from the dead, the firstfruits. The Patriarchs are those who have fallen asleep. They are NOT the firstfruits.
Christ is the `Root ....of David.` (Rev. 22: 16)
Christ was before Abraham. `Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.` (John 8: 58)
Christ nourishes the Body, `Christ ....from whom all the body, NOURISHED and knit together...` (Col. 2: 19)
Christ supports the Body. `Christ - from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies...` (Eph. 4: 16)
Christ is Holy. `Not will you allow your holy one to see corruption. ` (Acts 2: 27)
None of the Patriarchs are holy, nourish or support us. To say that is to demean Christ, His character and His work.
Romans 11: 16 - 18 tells us that the `root` is holy, nourishes and supports us. This is all of CHRIST.
CrazyCalvinistUncle
Junior
The YouTube "channel" he started and linked here has a growing list of videos like this.
Actually Christ is the firstfruits of the resurrection, not the firstfruits of God's called out assembly (ekklesia, church, Ac 7:38), the people of God.
The use of firstfruits in the NT is specific to context. It can refer to the annual harvest, the resurrection, the called-out assembly, etc.
The metaphor of the one olive tree and grafting in Ro 11:16-22 is not a spiritual metaphor, but is a natural metaphor simply of the composition of God's singular people, the NT church, going all the way back to Abraham, describing the cutting off of the Jews therefrom and the inclusion of the Gentiles in their place, a metaphor of grafting that allows for the return of the Jews to God's one people, conditioned on faith in Jesus Christ (Heb 11:23), which condition has not been met for over 2,000 years now.
The patriarchs are the roots in that natural metaphor regarding the composition of the one olive tree of God's people, the NT church, and the branches are their descendants.
If one wishes to prosecute the metaphor further, adding a partial spiritual dimension, Christ is the descendant of the patriarchs (roots), making him the trunk of the tree in which the branches (God's people) abide (Jn 15:5).
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