Daniel 9:20-27: The 70 Weeks, Mystery Solved!

[Hazelelponi]

I thought someone might enjoy a sermon on Daniel from a regular pastor...

 

[JustTheFacts]

You should have him read my summary.

 

[Carbon]

You should have him read my summary.

Why is that?

 

[Hazelelponi]

You should have him read my summary.

You should listen to the sermon perhaps and comment on what you heard.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Why is that?

Did you read it?

 

[Carbon]

Did you read it?

I asked why you would recommend a pastor to read it?

 

[JustTheFacts]

Why would I recommend a pastor to read my summary? Because the solution I've provided for Daniel 9:24-27 makes sense, but contradicts what that Pastor, and many others claim to be the meaning of that scripture.

 

[JustTheFacts]

I asked why you would recommend a pastor to read it?

That wasn't my intent, but in general, I would recommend that every Christian religious leader read my summary and start considering it to see if it has merit. Burying their heads in the sand as I have personally witnessed Christian leaders do time and time again for the last three years is not the answer. It's their job to understand and spread the word of God, but everyone I've interacted with thus far, is more interested in supporting their theology rather than considering that God might have a different message.

Now you have a decision to make on whether to silence me. My work proves Jesus as God and the Messiah and that is news that everyone should stand behind, love, and welcome. My results and conclusions should also be thoroughly scrutinized. Religious leaders have created a theological Church because the evidence has not been there in the past. But God said through the Law that we need evidence. Three times in the Gospel of John Jesus addressed the required evidence. God said we must have evidence, Jesus confirmed and supported it, but religious leaders don't want to consider it. The Church is comfortable in theology and for some reason the thought of evidence scares leaders.

 

[Arial]

My work proves Jesus as God and the Messiah and that is news that everyone should stand behind, love, and welcome.

In one post in another thread, you said you were not familiar with the doctrines of Orthodox Christianity. So let me enlighten you on a crucial one of those doctrines, so you can stop worrying about what you need to teach us.

We know that Jesus is the Messiah.
We know that Jesus is God.

We do not need you to prove that to us. We understand it from its revelation to us by God in his word by his grace and through faith, a gift from him. We do not require a man to spend five years proving that, one who does not even rightly divide (handle) the word of God.

If one needs everything proved to him before he will accept it----there is an absence of faith, and a total reliance on self. And it is faith in the person and work of Jesus that justifies one before God, granting eternal life.

 

[JustTheFacts]

In one post in another thread, you said you were not familiar with the doctrines of Orthodox Christianity. So let me enlighten you on a crucial one of those doctrines, so you can stop worrying about what you need to teach us.

We know that Jesus is the Messiah.
We know that Jesus is God.

We do not need you to prove that to us. We understand it from its revelation to us by God in his word by his grace and through faith, a gift from him. We do not require a man to spend five years proving that, one who does not even rightly divide (handle) the word of God.

If one needs everything proved to him before he will accept it----there is an absence of faith, and a total reliance on self. And it is faith in the person and work of Jesus that justifies one before God, granting eternal life.

You are right, you don't need proof or evidence, but many others do. My wife didn't need proof but I do. I'm a technical guy with many acquaintances over the years that do not believe the theological foundation for Jesus. I say theological founding for Jesus because if you get into an evidence discussion, that's what faith in Jesus is based on--it is not based on solid evidence. God commanded that Jesus be provided to the world through solid evidence and the words of Jesus prove that he supplied it. But what happened to the evidence package?

That's where my work came in to play. It turns out that the evidence package was delivered, but then it was corrupted by false teachers. This is supported through prophecy, but a person needs to have the interest to go through the details. My investigation found the two- or three-witnesses for all of us with less than ideal faith. This should be good news to all who want to share the faith of Jesus. It might not help you, and it might even confuse you as it did for my wife--a lifetime devout Baptist.

A benefit I have noticed is that atheists have their canned responses to everything thrown at them by Christians. Theology fuels their intensity, but evidence shuts them down. Why am I here confusing you and some others? Because I can't do this in a bubble--I need feedback from those who have studied the word of God. Of utmost importance is that I get the message right, and I know there's a bunch of smart people out there that if they get on board, they will solve some the details I have trouble with.

 

[Arial]

It turns out that the evidence package was delivered, but then it was corrupted by false teachers.

Well first thing I would ask of I were an atheist, and I ask as a believer also, prove to me that the message (whatever it is for that would need to be provided too. I assume you are saying it is in the Daniel passages but I have not yet read that thread) who the false teachers were and are, proof that they are false teachers, and in what way they corrupted it. So what you say is just the tail wagging the dog. And the video section is not the place for that discussion unless you are actually addressing the content of the video itself. Keep things where they belong, please.

My investigation found the two- or three-witnesses for all of us with less than ideal faith.

Who defines ideal faith and less than ideal faith? I am not asking these questions to prompt answers here as this is not the place. I am simply pointing out the holes in your post. No faith is pretty easy to spot. It cannot believe without finding what they consider proof for themselves and trusting entirely in their supposed abilities (which seem vastly lacking since there are so many holes in the process you present) to dig up this proof. The faith that saves is not something we produce from within ourselves by finding proof of something. Your soteriology is out of balance.

This should be good news to all who want to share the faith of Jesus. It might not help you, and it might even confuse you as it did for my wife--a lifetime devout Baptist.

That should be a red flag that you are introducing confusion into the mix with people God has reached down and pulled out of the mire, snatching them out of the kingdom of darkness and bringing them into the kingdom of the Son. He is perfectly capable of doing that without you trying to prove something to them. You would do well to listen and learn from us instead of trying to teach us something that we know is a false teaching,(which you claim to be willing to do but then show no evidence that that is a true statement.)

A benefit I have noticed is that atheists have their canned responses to everything thrown at them by Christians. Theology fuels their intensity, but evidence shuts them down.

Not if your "evidence" comes from the Bible. I question if you know what theology is. It is the study of God and the only place to study God is from the Bible, because that is where he reveals himself. That is why it is called God's word. "Proof" without a correct knowledge of God, or absent of who God is, and that, consistently presented and governing all doctrine (teaching), is utter vanity.

Why am I here confusing you and some others?

The only thing you have confused me about is why you claim to have arrived at your "proof" through the meticulous methods of investigation, and yet limit your whole thesis on a few scriptures, snatched from here and there, devoid of all contextual meaning, and count the epistles and one of the gospels as not the word of God. Don't kid yourself. You have confused no one. We recognize a corrupted teaching when it presents itself. Is that a bit harsh? I imagine so, but the motive is pure, and for your good. You must be here for a reason, other than the one with which you came.

-I need feedback from those who have studied the word of God. Of utmost importance is that I get the message right, and I know there's a bunch of smart people out there that if they get on board, they will solve some the details I have trouble with.

Is that code for "I need someone to validate me?" I ask because it is obvious that you are not listening to what anyone else says. Not even when they show you in what ways you are mishandling scriptures. So it becomes apparent that you do not consider any of us as smart, or at least not as smart as you. We have shown you the details you have trouble with. Your whole premise and goal are off base. I have not even seen you present any details you have trouble with and ask for help from us smart people. You act like you have the whole thing wrapped up with a bow on top.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Who defines ideal faith and less than ideal faith? I am not asking these questions to prompt answers here as this is not the place. I am simply pointing out the holes in your post. No faith is pretty easy to spot. It cannot believe without finding what they consider proof for themselves and trusting entirely in their supposed abilities (which seem vastly lacking since there are so many holes in the process you present) to dig up this proof. The faith that saves is not something we produce from within ourselves by finding proof of something. Your soteriology is out of balance.

So less than ideal faith is not easy to spot but you have a good handle on no faith. Interesting....

That should be a red flag that you are introducing confusion into the mix with people God has reached down and pulled out of the mire, snatching them out of the kingdom of darkness and bringing them into the kingdom of the Son. He is perfectly capable of doing that without you trying to prove something to them. You would do well to listen and learn from us instead of trying to teach us something that we know is a false teaching,(which you claim to be willing to do but then show no evidence that that is a true statement.)

Are you referring to people with less than ideal faith? Nothing I write will have those with solid faith from their path. On the other hand, those with less than ideal faith who have unanswered questions and/or have faith issues they need to deal with may open up a discussion.

The only thing you have confused me about is why you claim to have arrived at your "proof" through the meticulous methods of investigation, and yet limit your whole thesis on a few scriptures, snatched from here and there, devoid of all contextual meaning, and count the epistles and one of the gospels as not the word of God. Don't kid yourself. You have confused no one. We recognize a corrupted teaching when it presents itself. Is that a bit harsh? I imagine so, but the motive is pure, and for your good. You must be here for a reason, other than the one with which you came.

What confuses me is you object to what I write but you don't address the scripture--you simply build yourself up while having no feedback on any point that I've made.

Is that code for "I need someone to validate me?" I ask because it is obvious that you are not listening to what anyone else says. Not even when they show you in what ways you are mishandling scriptures. So it becomes apparent that you do not consider any of us as smart, or at least not as smart as you. We have shown you the details you have trouble with. Your whole premise and goal are off base. I have not even seen you present any details you have trouble with and ask for help from us smart people. You act like you have the whole thing wrapped up with a bow on top.

So give me some of your examples of how I am not listening to what anyone says. I'm all ears.

 

[Arial]

So less than ideal faith is not easy to spot but you have a good handle on no faith.

Yep. Ideal faith has not been defined.

Are you referring to people with less than ideal faith? Nothing I write will have those with solid faith from their path. On the other hand, those with less than ideal faith who have unanswered questions and/or have faith issues they need to deal with may open up a discussion.

I am neither referring to people with ideal faith or less than ideal faith. Why don't you pay attention to what I say instead of letting loose red herrings? Ideal faith and less than ideal faith are your constructs, not mine, and you do not define them, just use them. Unanswered questions are not an indication of the level of one's faith. If that were true, no one would have faith that saves, because there will always be unanswered questions. Biblical faith is saving faith that trusts in the person and work of Jesus for salvation. It is given by God to those he gives to the Son. Eph 2:8. And speaking of Dan 7 as proof that Jesus is the Messiah, is teaching from the most complex (prophecy) to achieve the most basic. It will be confusing to anyone (mainly because the two things, that prophecy, and the person and work of Jesus, are not even dealing with the same thing.) We first learn (generally) who Jesus is from the Gospels, and all that he accomplished from Acts and the Epistles. We get the whole story from one angle and then another, in apocalyptic prophetic form in Revelation. And because of that genre (type of literature), and because it is the whole story in symbolic picture form, it shed light on some of the prophecy of the OT. The OT is not interpreting the NT, the NT is interpreting the old.

What confuses me is you object to what I write but you don't address the scripture--you simply build yourself up while having no feedback on any point that I've made.

I have addressed everyone of the scriptures. I am quite sure you know this. If not, it is because it went in one ear and out the other in a dismissive way. So don't misrepresent me to bolster your own position.

So give me some of your examples of how I am not listening to what anyone says. I'm all ears.

That is a straw man fallacy. Here is why. You keep asking for something to be given that has already been given. As though if you do that, it will settle the issue and as though it would have any more effect the second, or third, or fourth time it is given than it did the first time. Go back and find where we have already done what you are now asking for again, and deal with what we SAY. Instead of this type of thing which begins to bear the image of a disruptive troll, though that may be just its appearance.

 

[Hazelelponi]

That wasn't my intent, but in general, I would recommend that every Christian religious leader read my summary and start considering it to see if it has merit. Burying their heads in the sand as I have personally witnessed Christian leaders do time and time again for the last three years is not the answer. It's their job to understand and spread the word of God, but everyone I've interacted with thus far, is more interested in supporting their theology rather than considering that God might have a different message.

We accept the witness of the Holy Spirit, not the witness of men.

You claim on the one hand that you have not been sent by God to say anything to anyone about anything. (I believe you on this point, no worries).

But in the same breath you consider your own words and theories and understanding - all private interpretation - above the words of God to the Church, which has never been a matter of private interpretation.

If you love Truth, you will accept the Scripture, all of it, on faith in Christ Jesus that He can preserve His Word and then satisfy yourself to learn at the feet of Jesus what God has revealed to His children.

We have faith, not as the demons do (James 2:19) through mental assent to a list of facts, but we worship God in Spirit and in Truth.(John 4:24 : 2 Cor. 3:17) It's not a faith to be bought or sold, but it is a gift from God.

We don't accept your words because we do accept the witness of the Holy Spirit. Repent of your sins and turn to Christ for your salvation. BEG His forgiveness for sin, and ask Him to give you understanding.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Yep. Ideal faith has not been defined.

I am neither referring to people with ideal faith or less than ideal faith. Why don't you pay attention to what I say instead of letting loose red herrings? Ideal faith and less than ideal faith are your constructs, not mine, and you do not define them, just use them. Unanswered questions are not an indication of the level of one's faith. If that were true, no one would have faith that saves, because there will always be unanswered questions. Biblical faith is saving faith that trusts in the person and work of Jesus for salvation. It is given by God to those he gives to the Son. Eph 2:8. And speaking of Dan 7 as proof that Jesus is the Messiah, is teaching from the most complex (prophecy) to achieve the most basic. It will be confusing to anyone (mainly because the two things, that prophecy, and the person and work of Jesus, are not even dealing with the same thing.) We first learn (generally) who Jesus is from the Gospels, and all that he accomplished from Acts and the Epistles. We get the whole story from one angle and then another, in apocalyptic prophetic form in Revelation. And because of that genre (type of literature), and because it is the whole story in symbolic picture form, it shed light on some of the prophecy of the OT. The OT is not interpreting the NT, the NT is interpreting the old.

I have addressed everyone of the scriptures. I am quite sure you know this. If not, it is because it went in one ear and out the other in a dismissive way. So don't misrepresent me to bolster your own position.

That is a straw man fallacy. Here is why. You keep asking for something to be given that has already been given. As though if you do that, it will settle the issue and as though it would have any more effect the second, or third, or fourth time it is given than it did the first time. Go back and find where we have already done what you are now asking for again, and deal with what we SAY. Instead of this type of thing which begins to bear the image of a disruptive troll, though that may be just its appearance.

I've numbered them so you don't lose track and we can keep from being distracted.

1. You still not have provided one example of how I've ignored people.

2. You stated that we learn "all that Jesus accomplished from Acts and the Epistles." So in your opinion the Gospels are incomplete and we need Acts and the Epistles documentation to know everything about Jesus? Please provide one example of something we learn from Acts and the Epistles that we haven't learned from the Gospels.

3. You still attack me and my claim for the seventy sevens to be the most complete prophecy ever written. You stated that other prophecy is just as, or even more important, but I'm still waiting for one example.

4. Are you ever going to present the authorization from God that Paul and others can speak for God so that I can at least consider why you object to me sticking to God's Law for authorization?

5. You haven't addressed my very general and brief introduction analysis of the seventy sevens. So Jesus is not the seven sevens? The sixty two sevens from Malachi to the birth of Jesus are off? The seven year mission of Jesus is inaccurate?

6. Sorry I forgot one and had to edit. If I'm going to present the solution to the prophecy math problem I need to know that it is important, otherwise I am wasting my time. You claimed that the math of Revelation isn't important. Do you have some word of God to support that?

 

[Arial]

1. You still not have provided one example of how I've ignored people.

Oh get real! Do you think asking people to go through dozens of posts to satisfy your claim (which is btw asking for someone to demonstrate a negative) is something that strengthens your position? I weakens it.

2. You stated that we learn "all that Jesus accomplished from Acts and the Epistles." So in your opinion the Gospels are incomplete and we need Acts and the Epistles documentation to know everything about Jesus? Please provide one example of something we learn from Acts and the Epistles that we haven't learned from the Gospels.

There were things in the life of Jesus that could not be accomplished, and therefore not fully known or understood, until they became a reality in his crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension. For example, his church could not even begin or grow until he had completed the work of redemption, for the simple reason that his church is made up of redeemed people. What that redemption fully entails as to its teachings and foundation cannot be fully known until after he did the work of redeeming. Do you know what that work was? If the epistles were written while he was on earth, before the crucifixion and resurrection and his returning to the Father, they would make no sense whatsoever. The Gospels are the work Jesus did and who he is, and his teaching.

3. You still attack me and my claim for the seventy sevens to be the most complete prophecy ever written. You stated that other prophecy is just as, or even more important, but I'm still waiting for one example

Not the place, and not my responsibility.

4. Are you ever going to present the authorization from God that Paul and others can speak for God so that I can at least consider why you object to me sticking to God's Law for authorization?

Did you pay any attention the first, second, or third, time I accommodated you in the matter? Or the half a dozen or so other posters who did the same? Stop the troll like behavior!

5. You haven't addressed my very general and brief introduction analysis of the seventy sevens. So Jesus is not the seven sevens? The sixty two sevens from Malachi to the birth of Jesus are off? The seven year mission of Jesus is inaccurate?

And stop trying to carry on the same conversation with me in two different places. My fuse is getting short!

6. Sorry I forgot one and had to edit. If I'm going to present the solution to the prophecy math problem I need to know that it is important, otherwise I am wasting my time. You claimed that the math of Revelation isn't important. Do you have some word of God to support that?

Do it in the OP you already started. If you do it here, it will be deleted. Got it?