Covenants in the Bible

[Eleanor]

That is your opinion. You can hang onto it and keep the one you have that I think is unbiblical.
Oh my gosh. While we are at it why don't we have an argument about what the meaning of the word is is.
They received the land through promise (covenant). Keeping it was a whole different deal when it came to the Sinai covenant which is the land grant covenant. Ma

There is no land grant of Canaan in the Mosiac Covenant.
The land grant was made in Ge 15:17-21.

Do you think God does not bind Himself to keep His own promises? His very promise is an oath. It does not have to be formal.

Did you not say that covenant is the reason I can trust God?

Pretty sure you did not arrive there all on your own. No one does and those who say they do deceive themselves and/or others.

Nope, dispensationalism was news to me after I had studied the Bible.
I had found nothing of the sort anywhere in it, and when I looked into this dispensational stuff, I found it was not only new to me but also new to the church, and not a historical doctrinre.

And now you back away from what you said by saying it was an example, not your view. Just like you did in another thread by saying what you were saying was speculating.

All you have to do is review the conversation, and you can decide for yourself.

The only "problem"administrations solves is to not acknowledge all the covenants.

Scritpure doesn't call all of them covenants, that's an extra-Biblical idea of man.

Does a building require a frame work? The framework is not the building, but it is what the building is built around and what holds it together, and supports it, gives it its design. Covenant theology is not a series of overarching segments (as dispensationalism is) but the framework that upon which all of scripture is built, supports it. gives it its design.

No, but does not Covenant theology have the Edenic Covenant going all the way to Christ, or something like that?

 

[Arial]

There is no land grant of Canaan in the Mosiac Covenant.
The land grant was made in Ge 15:17-21.

The Gen 15 is a covenant of promise----therefore not a land grant covenant.
The land grant covenant is the Sinai covenant. All those laws given in it----they were the conditions that needed to be met in order for them to keep the land and have God as their God. Read it and weep. They broke the covenant and as was promised, God scattered them.

Did you not say that covenant is the reason I can trust God?

Yes. How does the question relate to what I said?

Scritpure doesn't call all of them covenants, that's an extra-Biblical idea of man.

It doesn't call God the Trinity either. Does that mean it is an extra-biblical idea of man? Unitarians would certainly say so. We see the Trinity in scripture do we not? And we see unless we stubbornly don't want to, that a covenant does not have to be announced as a covenant in order to be one. We see, unless we want to remove the definition of something from its concept, and restrict the definition, that God is always relating to mankind in a covenantal way.

Really,think about it. As being the Creator and we being so small and insignificant in comparison, His being so Other than us, how else could we ever know Him unless He initiates a covenant relationship. We can know of Him by the creation itself but there is no relatonship in that and certainly not a redemptive one.

No, but does not Covenant theology have the Edenic Covenant going all the way to Christ, or something like that?

Christ is even mentioned in the Edenic covenant. "You will bruise His heel and He will crush your head." God's covenants given in scriptures do not end until they are fulfilled, and then they haven't really ended but have been fulfilled. His covenants of promise are eternal. The Edenic covenant threads through all the other covenants and all through the Bible til Jesus died on the cross and was raised from the dead and returned to the Father. Just as the promise to Abraham that all nations would be blessed through his Seed ran through the Sinai covenant. They are all fulfilled by the New Covenant, fulfilled in Christ. Even the Sinai covenant was fulfilled in Him, the True Israel, faithful Israel.

 

[Eleanor]

The Gen 15 is a covenant of promise----therefore not a land grant covenant.
The land grant covenant is the Sinai covenant. All those laws given in it----they were the conditions that needed to be met in order for them to keep the land and have God as their God. Read it and weep. They broke the covenant and as was promised, God scattered them.

Ge 15 is on the order of a royal land grant; i.e., a king's grant (of land or some other benefit) to a loyal servant for faithful or exceptional service. The grant was normally perpetual and unconditional, but the servant's heirs benefited from it only as they continued their father's loyalty and service.
Commitments made in these covenants were accompanied by self-maledictory oaths (made orally, ceremonially or both). The gods were called upon to witness the covenants and implement the curses of the oaths if the covenants were violated.

 

[Sereni-tea]

Ge 15 is on the order of a royal land grant; i.e., a king's grant (of land or some other benefit) to a loyal servant for faithful or exceptional service. The grant was normally perpetual and unconditional, but the servant's heirs benefited from it only as they continued their father's loyalty and service.
Commitments made in these covenants were accompanied by self-maledictory oaths (made orally, ceremonially or both). The gods were called upon to witness the covenants and implement the curses of the oaths if the covenants were violated.

Is this really what you think is going on in Genesis 15 - that God made the covenant with Abram because he was a loyal servant or because he performed an exceptional service?
Abram lived in tents in the land, as a foreigner, as did Isaac and Jacob. They never received what was promised as Hebrews 11 tells us. They only saw it from afar. Then Abraham's descendants lived in Egypt for 400 years before God brought them out. And Israel as Abraham's heir was hardly the model of continued faithful service. How does this fit with the idea of a royal land grant that you are proposing?

Don't get me wrong, yes this type of covenant was common in the ancient near east. I completely agree. And yes, the covenant in Genesis 15 followed a similar pattern. However there were some differences also because God is not making this covenant with Abram because of anything Abram has done, but because God is implementing His plan of salvation, remaining faithful to His commitment to His creation.

 

[Eleanor]

Is this really what you think is going on in Genesis 15 - that God made the covenant with Abram because he was a loyal servant or because he performed an exceptional service?

No, I am saying it is of the same form as the secular royal land grant.

Abram lived in tents in the land, as a foreigner, as did Isaac and Jacob. They never received what was promised as Hebrews 11 tells us. They only saw it from afar. Then Abraham's descendants lived in Egypt for 400 years before God brought them out. And Israel as Abraham's heir was hardly the model of continued faithful service. How does this fit with the idea of a royal land grant that you are proposing?

Don't get me wrong, yes this type of covenant was common in the ancient near east. I completely agree. And yes, the covenant in Genesis 15 followed a similar pattern. However there were some differences also because God is not making this covenant with Abram because of anything Abram has done, but because God is implementing His plan of salvation, remaining faithful to His commitment to His creation.

Agreed.

 

[Marilyn C]

Finally, in Revelation 21 we have the glorious view of the new heavens and new earth, where God will dwell with his people forever - not just a return to Eden (where only 2 people dwelt with God in a Garden) but a greatly exanded (better) Eden - where a great multitude from every nation will dwell with God in the new Garden city - the new Jerusalem.

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” Revelation 21:1-4

This is a very brief summary (obviously), but I am interested in other's thoughts.

Hi Sereni,

Jesus is the covenant, `I will preserve you and give you as a covenant to the people,....` (Isa. 49: 8)

It is through the Lord Jesus that all of God`s promises are fulfilled.

The Body of Christ has a great inheritance than the earth or New Jerusalem. We will be with the Lord on His own throne, (Rev. 3: 21) The Father appointed the Lord king on Mount Zion, and that is in the third heaven, (Ps. 2: 6, Heb. 12: 22)

 

[Sereni-tea]

Hi Sereni,

Jesus is the covenant, `I will preserve you and give you as a covenant to the people,....` (Isa. 49: 8)

It is through the Lord Jesus that all of God`s promises are fulfilled.

I agree that all the promises of the Old Testament are filfilled in Christ. And it is through His death according to the Scriptures that He has set His people free and brought them into the New Covenant.

The Body of Christ has a great inheritance than the earth or New Jerusalem. We will be with the Lord on His own throne, (Rev. 3: 21) The Father appointed the Lord king on Mount Zion, and that is in the third heaven, (Ps. 2: 6, Heb. 12: 22)

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I look forward to the New Creation - the New Heavens and the New Earth beautifully presented in Revelation 21. "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” Rev 21:3-4
We are physical creatures, and our place will be on the new Earth. But however things turn out, one thing is clear - that God will dwell with His people and He will be there loving, caring Father, wiping away the tears of His beloved children.

 

[Marilyn C]

I agree that all the promises of the Old Testament are filfilled in Christ. And it is through His death according to the Scriptures that He has set His people free and brought them into the New Covenant.


I look forward to the New Creation - the New Heavens and the New Earth beautifully presented in Revelation 21. "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” Rev 21:3-4
We are physical creatures, and our place will be on the new Earth. But however things turn out, one thing is clear - that God will dwell with His people and He will be there loving, caring Father, wiping away the tears of His beloved children.

However, we will have a body like the Lord`s able to go through dimensions. (1 John 3: 2)

It is a spiritual body, (1 Cor. 15: 44) made for the higher realms. (Rev. 3: 21)

 

[Sereni-tea]

However, we will have a body like the Lord`s able to go through dimensions. (1 John 3: 2)

It is a spiritual body, (1 Cor. 15: 44) made for the higher realms. (Rev. 3: 21)

It will be a resurrected body, like the Lord's. Whatever else that means we will just have to wait and see.

 

[civic]

It will be a resurrected body, like the Lord's. Whatever else that means we will just have to wait and see.

See here for the meaning of Jesus Resurrection body

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/the-heart-of-the-gospel-the-resurrection.397/

 

[EarlyActs]

It will be a resurrected body, like the Lord's. Whatever else that means we will just have to wait and see.

I'm not sure there will be corporeality in the NHNE. I think Christ's resurrected body was to communicate back-to-life-ness but that does not mean there is corporeality in the NHNE, where there is no marriage, no temple (Christ is that) and no sun (God is the light).