Christianity Today

[Carbon]

Lately, with the church at large, seeing what at one time seemed to be solid believers fall from essential truths and doctrine is alarming.
The church is in a bad state today.

It’s amazing what has intruded into the church today from the world.

Look, what many Christians call being born again, they confuse conversion with regeneration. Scripture teaches that conversion is the act of turning away from sin and turning toward Christ. It’s a conscious act, attended by regret, sorrow, pain, and coupled with a belief in Christ’s saving work.
Where regeneration in scripture is the divine work of God in the soul, in which spiritual life is imparted, where none existed.
Although we are active in conversion, turning from sin to Christ, we are not active in regeneration. We do not give ourselves birth. Life is given by God.

Why is it that scripture is so consistent in speaking of our helpless passivity in this matter?
Well, the reason we have to be regenerated by God is that by nature we are hostile to Him. Rom 8:7. Regeneration must come first, or there can be no belief.

Yes, I believe today, regeneration is confused with conversion.

It shows the church is losing its understanding of why we have to be regenerated.

Thoughts concerning this?

 

[EarlyActs]

While true, I would not want to leave it there, which is a rather hopeless status. I think unbelievers should know that they won't be able to truly conclude anything about the Christian truth without at least 3 months of regular exposure through reading Scripture. Then, if they realize that it takes regeneration, they can try to sort that out with God.

 

[John Bauer]

It’s amazing what has intruded into the church today from the world.

It is almost like a judgment from God.

 

[CrowCross]

Lately, with the church at large, seeing what at one time seemed to be solid believers fall from essential truths and doctrine is alarming.
The church is in a bad state today.

It’s amazing what has intruded into the church today from the world.

Look, what many Christians call being born again, they confuse conversion with regeneration. Scripture teaches that conversion is the act of turning away from sin and turning toward Christ. It’s a conscious act, attended by regret, sorrow, pain, and coupled with a belief in Christ’s saving work.
Where regeneration in scripture is the divine work of God in the soul, in which spiritual life is imparted, where none existed.
Although we are active in conversion, turning from sin to Christ, we are not active in regeneration. We do not give ourselves birth. Life is given by God.

Why is it that scripture is so consistent in speaking of our helpless passivity in this matter?
Well, the reason we have to be regenerated by God is that by nature we are hostile to Him. Rom 8:7. Regeneration must come first, or there can be no belief.

Yes, I believe today, regeneration is confused with conversion.

It shows the church is losing its understanding of why we have to be regenerated.

Thoughts concerning this?

What occurs first? Regeneration or conversion?

Personally I think they happen at the same moment.

The fruits of ones regeneration and subsequent conversion may appear over time.

 

[John Bauer]

What occurs first? Regeneration or conversion?

Personally I think they happen at the same moment.

The fruits of ones regeneration and subsequent conversion may appear over time.

Regeneration occurs first, then conversion. As @Carbon said, “Scripture teaches that conversion is the act of turning away from sin …” (repentance) “… and turning toward Christ” (faith).

• repentance + faith = conversion

But there is no turning from sin and toward Christ apart from regeneration.

 

[Carbon]

What occurs first? Regeneration or conversion?

Personally I think they happen at the same moment.

The fruits of ones regeneration and subsequent conversion may appear over time.

Well, that all depends. Can you have regeneration without conversion? Can you have conversion without regeneration?

 

[CrowCross]

Well, that all depends. Can you have regeneration without conversion? Can you have conversion without regeneration?

Which is why I believe it happens at the same moment in time.

 

[CrowCross]

Lately, with the church at large, seeing what at one time seemed to be solid believers fall from essential truths and doctrine is alarming.
The church is in a bad state today.

To go another direction....I see the church fast a sleep. Not all of it but much of it. In fact the church has been a sleep for years.

The muslims are creeping in....taking over....they have a plan....and christians for the most part do nothing.

 

[Carbon]

What occurs first? Regeneration or conversion?

Personally I think they happen at the same moment.

The fruits of ones regeneration and subsequent conversion may appear over time.

I would say "conversion is the fruit of regeneration."

 

[Arial]

Lately, with the church at large, seeing what at one time seemed to be solid believers fall from essential truths and doctrine is alarming.
The church is in a bad state today.

It’s amazing what has intruded into the church today from the world.

Look, what many Christians call being born again, they confuse conversion with regeneration. Scripture teaches that conversion is the act of turning away from sin and turning toward Christ. It’s a conscious act, attended by regret, sorrow, pain, and coupled with a belief in Christ’s saving work.
Where regeneration in scripture is the divine work of God in the soul, in which spiritual life is imparted, where none existed.
Although we are active in conversion, turning from sin to Christ, we are not active in regeneration. We do not give ourselves birth. Life is given by God.

Why is it that scripture is so consistent in speaking of our helpless passivity in this matter?
Well, the reason we have to be regenerated by God is that by nature we are hostile to Him. Rom 8:7. Regeneration must come first, or there can be no belief.

Yes, I believe today, regeneration is confused with conversion.

It shows the church is losing its understanding of why we have to be regenerated.

Thoughts concerning this?

It could be a means of purifying the church, a winnowing. But I do believe there are genuine Christians who were taught backwards---conversion then regeneration and still have not let go of that, and maybe never will til the day dawns.

There is a reason, I believe, why "victims" of the false teaching don't change (from a human standpoint). They were never taught any theology or foundational orthodox doctrine. They were just taught to say a prayer calling on the name of Jesus and you will be saved from hell. And even after spending years in church, have still not had any doctrinal foundation laid, or made aware that there is one, or how to go about reading the Bible to find it. They have not been taught how to read and study the Bible properly. And for the most part, don't even know any of that.

The shepherds are like the shepherds of Ez. And they are like that because of the shepherds before them.

And yet----the gates of hell will not prevail against Christ's church. His church is not confined to physical structures but is made up of those who have been regenerated and given to Christ. No matter what is going on that we see or how bad the situation looks. God is the one in control. Nothing is stopping him or slowing him down or surprising him.