Already and Not Yet - a Baptist Perspective

[atpollard]

@fastfredy0 asked ...

Maybe so ... but I am not any smarter after reading this. I just now went to Gotquestions for their answer

The theological concept of “already but not yet” holds that believers are actively taking part in the kingdom of God, although the kingdom will not reach its full expression until sometime in the future. We are “already” in the kingdom, but we do “not yet” see it in its glory. The “already but not yet” theology is related to kingdom theology or inaugurated eschatology.

What is the concept of "already but not yet"? | GotQuestions.org

What is the concept of 'already but not yet'? How is the kingdom already here and not yet here at the same time?

www.gotquestions.org

... and I thought I would create a place to discuss it further.

First, a disclaimer: I am not really sure that "Reformed Baptist" was the best place to locate this thread. I know the REFORMED BAPTIST position, but there might be a lot of other "BROTHERS AND SISTERS" that have something to contribute from THEIR traditions. So anyone is invited to chime in and at any time the "Powers that Be" [I meant MODERATORS, but God and His angels are invited too] want to move this topic, you have my blessings.

Let's get started:

Dear fastfreddy0,
Got Questions is so darn PRESBYTERIAN.
Their answer is not wrong, but it is so INCOMPLETE from a Baptist perspective.

Let's start with the BIG PICTURE:

ALREADY AND NOT YET is about the things that God touches having a quality that is BIGGER than time. To describe an event as being PAST is too small for an ETERNAL GOD. To describe the event as PRESENT is too small for an ETERNAL GOD. To describe an event as FUTURE is too small for an ETERNAL GOD. When God interacts with His creation, that point of interaction is PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE al at the same time.

Since that was probably "clear as mud", let me offer an example to try an explain it.

SALVATION:
God saved. Nobody except an atheist will argue with that. So WHEN does God save? ALREADY AND NOT YET.

You and I [let's face it fastfreddy0, we rock ] were saved before the foundation of the world. [PAST] That means, that before God created anything, our salvation was already a "Done Deal" ... God had decided and what God wants, God gets. So before we were born, we were ALREADY saved.

So what is "saved" - Justified, Sanctified, Glorified.

• In 400 BC, were you and I "Justified, Sanctified, Glorified"? Nope. However we were ALREADY saved but NOT YET "Justified, Sanctified, Glorified".
• In AD 1500, Luther was fighting the good fight and you and I were ALREADY "Saved and Justified" [Jesus Christ had come and done His thing] but we were NOT YET "Sanctified, Glorified" [mostly because we had not yet been born].
• Fast forward to October 2023, you and I are ALREADY "Saved, Justified, Sanctified" but NOT YET "Glorified". [Technically, we are still being Sanctified as well. I am DEFINITELY still a work in progress.] However, is God's plan in any jeopardy? Heck no. Thus scripture can talk abut our NOT YET "Glorification" as if it already happened - because as far as God is concerned, it already has. Our salvation is just as certain to God as before He created the world and as when we are standing in heaven praising Him.
• YET: Some day we will die. More accurately, we will be transformed and really begin to live. That perfect state of GLORIFICATION is itself not 100% in the future. God started with a perfect plan in which all things work together for our good and His glory. So even before we were born, wheels of our GLORIFICATION were set into motion. Throughout our life, especially as we Follow Him, we taste just a bit of that Glorification. "We love because God first loved us" ain't NOTHING! The "Fruit of the Spirit" ain't NOTHING! those are glimpses, sparks, mere tastes of the GLORIFICATION that is to come. Another ALREADY AND NOT YET within the Salvation ALREADY AND NOT YET.

That was just one example. Both the Bible and the Christian Life are FULL OF THEM.

 

[Carbon]

SALVATION:
God saved. Nobody except an atheist will argue with that. So WHEN does God save? ALREADY AND NOT YET.

Just like when is the kingdom? The same can be used: Already and not yet.

Cool subject.

 

[atpollard]

BAPTISM:

As a good Baptist, I know that any believers 'dunkin' is not salvific, but symbolic. [Water wets, God saves.]
So what does it "symbolize"? The death, burial and resurrection of Christ and our death, burial and resurrection In Him.

(ALREADY AND NOT YET)

Baptism is also a PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE event.

• ALREADY: 2000 years ago (ballpark) Jesus died, was buried and was resurrected to purchase for US our Justification. His work already saved us. When we are baptized, we REMEMBER what HE has done and symbolically join Him in His eternal work (once for all).
• AND: Now, today, in the present, God is doing [Technically in Credobaptism, God has already done] a work..When we are baptized, we make a public profession acknowledging what God has done IN US. The old man has DIED and is BURIED [forever dead to our past], the water washes our sin away [symbolically, as the Holy Spirit did in reality], and we rise a New Creation ... the present event is an Ebenezer [stone of remembrance] to mark the transition - the crossing from death to life.
• NOT YET: One day we each will die. An earth grave awaits each of us. Our Baptism is a reminder that that future grave is not our end. Just as Jesus rose in the PAST, we will rise in the FUTURE. Just as Jesus was glorified in the past, we will be glorified in the future.

That one symbolic ORDINANCE carries within it a message of our PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE and a reminder of the ALREADY AND NOT YET nature of our Christian sojourn in this foreign land.

 

[fastfredy0]

So before we were born, we were ALREADY saved.

Agreed. Before I 'officially believed' I was a 'sheep' and not a goat. Granted, a lost sheep.
I love the rest of your post. Good explanation.

I have some troubles understanding God being eternal, being outside of time, being present now in every moment of time, not being restricted by time. My consolation is that the guys that write about such things admit to a lack of understanding also. "A day is as a 1000 years and a 1000 years is as a day".

“If we knew exactly what eternity is, we would be eternal — in other words, God. Therefore, it is critical to remain within the bounds of Scripture: its explicit statements, and legitimate inferences from those statements." Horton, Michael

Augustine: “If nothing passed away, there would be no past time; if there was nothing still on its way, there would be no future time; and if nothing existed, there would be no present time.” Things must change or time does not exist; God does not change, is timeless; yet acts in time.

Got Questions is so darn PRESBYTERIAN.

Hmmm ... I don't think so. They definitely lean toward Monergism. They are good to give other perspectives and usually take a side after doing so. They might be 4 1/2 pointers as I recall and from my perspective. Occasionally, their answers slightly conflict with one another IMO. I like them a lot as a resource to answer questions.

 

[Papa Smurf]

I believe that our "adoption" is understood to be ~already/not yet~ too.

Romans 8​

15 You have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received (aorist tense) the Spirit of adoption as sons by whom we cry out, “Abba! Father!”​

​

Romans 8​

23 However, not only the creation, but we who have the first fruits of the Spirit also groan inwardly as we eagerly await (present tense) our adoption, the redemption of our bodies.​

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

 

[A branch]

@fastfredy0 asked ...


... and I thought I would create a place to discuss it further.

First, a disclaimer: I am not really sure that "Reformed Baptist" was the best place to locate this thread. I know the REFORMED BAPTIST position, but there might be a lot of other "BROTHERS AND SISTERS" that have something to contribute from THEIR traditions. So anyone is invited to chime in and at any time the "Powers that Be" [I meant MODERATORS, but God and His angels are invited too] want to move this topic, you have my blessings.

Let's get started:

Dear fastfreddy0,
Got Questions is so darn PRESBYTERIAN.
Their answer is not wrong, but it is so INCOMPLETE from a Baptist perspective.

Let's start with the BIG PICTURE:

ALREADY AND NOT YET is about the things that God touches having a quality that is BIGGER than time. To describe an event as being PAST is too small for an ETERNAL GOD. To describe the event as PRESENT is too small for an ETERNAL GOD. To describe an event as FUTURE is too small for an ETERNAL GOD. When God interacts with His creation, that point of interaction is PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE al at the same time.

Since that was probably "clear as mud", let me offer an example to try an explain it.

SALVATION:
God saved. Nobody except an atheist will argue with that. So WHEN does God save? ALREADY AND NOT YET.

You and I [let's face it fastfreddy0, we rock ] were saved before the foundation of the world. [PAST] That means, that before God created anything, our salvation was already a "Done Deal" ... God had decided and what God wants, God gets. So before we were born, we were ALREADY saved.

So what is "saved" - Justified, Sanctified, Glorified.

• In 400 BC, were you and I "Justified, Sanctified, Glorified"? Nope. However we were ALREADY saved but NOT YET "Justified, Sanctified, Glorified".
• In AD 1500, Luther was fighting the good fight and you and I were ALREADY "Saved and Justified" [Jesus Christ had come and done His thing] but we were NOT YET "Sanctified, Glorified" [mostly because we had not yet been born].
• Fast forward to October 2023, you and I are ALREADY "Saved, Justified, Sanctified" but NOT YET "Glorified". [Technically, we are still being Sanctified as well. I am DEFINITELY still a work in progress.] However, is God's plan in any jeopardy? Heck no. Thus scripture can talk abut our NOT YET "Glorification" as if it already happened - because as far as God is concerned, it already has. Our salvation is just as certain to God as before He created the world and as when we are standing in heaven praising Him.
• YET: Some day we will die. More accurately, we will be transformed and really begin to live. That perfect state of GLORIFICATION is itself not 100% in the future. God started with a perfect plan in which all things work together for our good and His glory. So even before we were born, wheels of our GLORIFICATION were set into motion. Throughout our life, especially as we Follow Him, we taste just a bit of that Glorification. "We love because God first loved us" ain't NOTHING! The "Fruit of the Spirit" ain't NOTHING! those are glimpses, sparks, mere tastes of the GLORIFICATION that is to come. Another ALREADY AND NOT YET within the Salvation ALREADY AND NOT YET.

That was just one example. Both the Bible and the Christian Life are FULL OF THEM.

"All ready and not yet" reminds me of an old saying I grew up hearing often " almost nearly but not quite hardly".
John 1 :12 also reminds me of that old saying.
John 1:12
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
This verse could have been written "To them gave he potential to become sons of God." I think because God made a New Covenant and always in a Covenant one receives something for doing something we are to live by the New Covenant laws and then we become Sons of God. imo

 

[jeremiah1five]

"Already" = God.
"Not yet" = man.
Two perspectives.

 

[donadams]

A little info please

What is a reformed Baptist?

What was reformed?

What is a anabaptist?

What’s the difference between adult only baptism and believers baptism?

They don’t teach this stuff in catholic school!

Thks

 

[Papa Smurf]

A little info please

Here are some links to short articles that should prove to be helpful.

What is a reformed Baptist? What was reformed/What does it mean to be reformed?

What is the Reformed Baptist Church? | GotQuestions.org

What is the Reformed Baptist Church? How are Reformed Baptist churches different from other Baptist churches?

www.gotquestions.org

What is a anabaptist?

Who were the Anabaptists, and what did they believe? | GotQuestions.org

Who were the Anabaptists, and what did they believe? What is anabaptism? What was the origin of the Anabaptist movement?

www.gotquestions.org

What’s the difference between adult only baptism and believers baptism?

They are two different names for the same thing, credobaptism, that is, which is contrasted with infant or paedobaptism. Credobaptism/believer's baptism refers to the practice of baptizing those (men, women and older children) who are able to make a conscious profession of faith prior to be baptized (unlike infants who cannot).

They don’t teach this stuff in catholic school!

 

[donadams]

Here are some links to short articles that should prove to be helpful.

What is the Reformed Baptist Church? | GotQuestions.org

What is the Reformed Baptist Church? How are Reformed Baptist churches different from other Baptist churches?

www.gotquestions.org

Who were the Anabaptists, and what did they believe? | GotQuestions.org

Who were the Anabaptists, and what did they believe? What is anabaptism? What was the origin of the Anabaptist movement?

www.gotquestions.org

They are two different names for the same thing, credobaptism, that is, which is contrasted with infant or paedobaptism. Credobaptism/believer's baptism refers to the practice of baptizing those (men, women and older children) who are able to make a conscious profession of faith prior to be baptized (unlike infants who cannot).

Thank you sir!