Abortion - at what point does a baby have the right to life?

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Whether they label themselves pro-life or pro-choice, most people seem to agree that babies have a right to live, and that women have the right to choose their own healthcare. And most people agree that the right to live is the more important of the two.

The real disagreement is - at what point does the baby have that right? Is it at...

* Conception - the moment the egg is fertilized.

* Brain Activity (4-6 weeks) - an adult who is hospitalized is typically declared dead when they no longer have measurable brain activity. If that is so, then perhaps a person should be declared alive when they do have measurable brain activity.

* Viability (22-24 weeks) - viability is the point during pregnancy where the baby would likely survive if it were born, given reasonable medical care. In most places, abortions are prohibited after the point of viability.

* Birth - the point at which the baby draws its first breath.

So, where do you draw that line? I tend to go for the 2nd one.

-Jarrod

 

[Fred]

* Conception - the moment the egg is fertilized.

#1

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

#1

Is that a matter of following your church, or family, or something you reasoned out on your own?

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

Jarrod:

"Abortion - at what point does a baby have the right to life?"

Having the right to live is a misnomer. The question should be, Do we have the right to choose when and how a baby is born? The Man above made that decision forever when He created Adam and Eve and gave them the ability to produce offspring.

When we decide to kill a fetus, at any age, unless medical reasons of the mother require it, and we carry out that decision, we have violated one of God's great decrees. A live human, whether inside or outside the fetus, regardless of its development, is a person—a person because God created him/her.

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

The question should be, Do we have the right to choose when and how a baby is born? The Man above made that decision forever when He created Adam and Eve and gave them the ability to produce offspring.

Don't people choose when and whether a baby is born all the time? There are some happy accidents, but most children are planned.

When we decide to kill a fetus, at any age, unless medical reasons of the mother require it, and we carry out that decision, we have violated one of God's great decrees. A live human, whether inside or outside the fetus, regardless of its development, is a person—a person because God created him/her.

You've just described the right to life. I don't think that's a misnomer.

-Jarrod

 

[John Bauer]

The real disagreement is, "At what point does the baby have that right?"

For me, the line is drawn at the moment you're referring to something that is not the mother, which means conception. The moment that it's a distinct entity—its DNA is different from its mother's—that baby has a right to life. A woman enjoys bodily autonomy and the right to make decisions about her own body and health care, but that obviously stops at someone else's body. From the germinal stage (0–2 weeks) to ever after, that baby is a distinct and unique human. And by roughly the fifth week (gametogenesis), it is distinguished as either a girl or a boy.

At what stage does God start knitting us together in the womb? In my opinion, conception. It's not as if he is hands-off until the fifth or sixth week.

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

For me, the line is drawn at the moment you're referring to something that is not the mother, which means conception. The moment that it's a distinct entity—its DNA is different from its mother's—that baby has a right to life. A woman enjoys bodily autonomy and the right to make decisions about her own body and health care, but that obviously stops at someone else's body. From the germinal stage (0–2 weeks) to ever after, that baby is a distinct and unique human. And by roughly the fifth week (gametogenesis), it is distinguished as either a girl or a boy.

At what stage does God start knitting us together in the womb? In my opinion, conception. It's not as if he is hands-off until the fifth or sixth week.

It seems like you've put some thought into this.

I don't know that I agree... a plant or animal also has distinct DNA and a gender, but we typically wouldn't count that for much. For me the defining human trait is intelligence, and you need a functioning brain for that.

-Jarrod

 

[John Bauer]

It seems like you've put some thought into this.

I don't know that I agree. A plant or animal also has distinct DNA and a gender, but we typically wouldn't count that for much.

Why did you suddenly invoke plants and animals in a discussion about abortion?

My stated position is a response to the age-old argument which Time magazine characterized as "the core" of the abortion debate, namely, the issue of bodily privacy. This is defined as the ability of a woman to "decide what happens to her own body." And I agree, she does.

But that stops at someone else's body, which must include that human life in her womb. That is not her body, that is someone else's body, and one for which she has a duty of care. (And your duty of care is not contingent on whether you consent to uphold that duty.)

It is interesting that a pregnant woman who deliberately harms her unborn child can face criminal charges, but she won't for killing her unborn child.

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Why did you suddenly invoke plants and animals in a discussion about abortion?

We value humans more highly, and rightly so, and the reason for that is relevant - "for me the defining human trait is intelligence, and you need a functioning brain for that." You left out the part that matters when you quoted.

 

[Fred]

Is that a matter of following your church, or family, or something you reasoned out on your own?

My study of the Bible.

 

[Rella]

The moment God formed them in the womb.

 

[Rockerduck]

#1. At moment of conception. That in itself is a miracle, a God given miracle that cannot be replicated. Only God creates life.

 

[Eleanor]

Whether they label themselves pro-life or pro-choice, most people seem to agree that babies have a right to live, and that women have the right to choose their own healthcare. And most people agree that the right to live is the more important of the two.

The real disagreement is - at what point does the baby have that right? Is it at...

* Conception - the moment the egg is fertilized.

* Brain Activity (4-6 weeks) - an adult who is hospitalized is typically declared dead when they no longer have measurable brain activity. If that is so, then perhaps a person should be declared alive when they do have measurable brain activity.

* Viability (22-24 weeks) - viability is the point during pregnancy where the baby would likely survive if it were born, given reasonable medical care. In most places, abortions are prohibited after the point of viability.

* Birth - the point at which the baby draws its first breath.

So, where do you draw that line? I tend to go for the 2nd one.

-Jarrod

It has the right to life at the point at which it is human life, and that is conception, at which point it has all the genetic material to grow into an adult, nothing needed to be added but life support.

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

Don't people choose when and whether a baby is born all the time? There are some happy accidents, but most children are planned.


You've just described the right to life. I don't think that's a misnomer.

-Jarrod

Jarrod:

Thanks for your input, brother.

 

[Andia]

From the moment of conception.

 

[jeremiah1five]

From the moment a man and woman engage in intercourse.

 

[QVQ]

Conception
DNA is unique and recognizable as an individual human.

 

[Tambora]

For me the defining human trait is intelligence, and you need a functioning brain for that.

Thoughts like this have led to some bizarre and sinister theories as to what a "person" is.

I remember some time ago listening to a debate between two internet users: Destiny & The Counsel of Trent.

Destiny said if a body does not have a state of consciousness (awareness of it's surroundings) then it is not a person, so until a fetus develops consciousness it isn't a person and the woman should be able to do whatever she wants with that mass of cells.​

​

The Counsel of Trent asked him if a woman chose to medically induced her fetus into a permanent state of comatose, could it be carried to full term and used as a child sex doll since it would never be aware of what was happening?​

​

Destiny responded that he saw no objection as long as it was a permanent state of consciousness and the mass of cells was never aware of what was happening.​

The minds of the wicked can go to some very dark places.

 

[Eleanor]

Whether they label themselves pro-life or pro-choice, most people seem to agree that babies have a right to live, and that
women have the right to choose their own healthcare.

Healthcare!!!

Murder of human life in the womb is now healthcare????
Only if the mother's life is in jeopardy.

And it is human life from the moment of conception.

The one-cell zygote has all the DNA necessary to develop complete human life all the way to the grave.

 

[ChristB4us]

Whether they label themselves pro-life or pro-choice, most people seem to agree that babies have a right to live, and that women have the right to choose their own healthcare. And most people agree that the right to live is the more important of the two.

The real disagreement is - at what point does the baby have that right? Is it at...

* Conception - the moment the egg is fertilized.

* Brain Activity (4-6 weeks) - an adult who is hospitalized is typically declared dead when they no longer have measurable brain activity. If that is so, then perhaps a person should be declared alive when they do have measurable brain activity.

* Viability (22-24 weeks) - viability is the point during pregnancy where the baby would likely survive if it were born, given reasonable medical care. In most places, abortions are prohibited after the point of viability.

* Birth - the point at which the baby draws its first breath.

So, where do you draw that line? I tend to go for the 2nd one.

-Jarrod

Conception because scripture testifies to God knowing us before we were even formed in the womb.

Psalm 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

17 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!