A question for the Arminian

[Carbon]

If God wants to save all men, did He know beforehand how incredibly unsuccessful He would be?

 

[John Bauer]

<... crickets chirping ...>

 

[makesends]

If God wants to save all men, did He know beforehand how incredibly unsuccessful He would be?

(Playing devil's advocate): Free will has its own trajectory, by definition, outside God's purposes. The future had not happened yet.

 

[CrowCross]

(Playing devil's advocate): Free will has its own trajectory, by definition, outside God's purposes. The future had not happened yet.

I disagree with this part of what you said...."The future had not happened yet."

I would say the future has happened for God.

Isaiah 46:10 I declare the end from the beginning, and from ancient times what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and all My good pleasure I will accomplish.’

 

[Carbon]

(Playing devil's advocate): Free will has its own trajectory, by definition, outside God's purposes. The future had not happened yet.

So, open theism? I don't think thats particularly Arminianism?

 

[makesends]

So, open theism? I don't think thats particularly Arminianism?

Yeah, it kinda built on itself as I tried to make it make sense, and got worse. I think the Arminian would cry, 'strawman', to the assumptions behind your question, "...did [God] know how incredibly unsuccessful he would be?" The Arminian, or, at least, those that insist on self-determinism as basic to willed creatures, see our structure of God as the core of reality and the beginning and upholding of the progression of reality, as unrealistic, since he lovingly waits on our sovereignty to do as we will. To them, he has no particular plans, but is very brilliant in turning all our bad deeds to good results.

 

[makesends]

I disagree with this part of what you said...."The future had not happened yet."

I would say the future has happened for God.

Isaiah 46:10 I declare the end from the beginning, and from ancient times what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and all My good pleasure I will accomplish.’

Yep

 

[By the Book]

So, open theism? I don't think thats particularly Arminianism?

An Arminian can’t help but fall into the traps of open theism when pressed.

At the time of creation, did God know every person who would ever be saved, or is that yet to be determined until everyone exercises their free will?

The answers will vary.

 

[JesusFan]

So, open theism? I don't think thats particularly Arminianism?

That would be the logical end of Arminianism theology taken to its logical ending

 

[CrowCross]

An Arminian can’t help but fall into the traps of open theism when pressed.

At the time of creation, did God know every person who would ever be saved, or is that yet to be determined until everyone exercises their free will?

The answers will vary.

it seems that according to Arminianism...the book of Revelation isn't "cast in stone"....God just might lose.

 

[JesusFan]

An Arminian can’t help but fall into the traps of open theism when pressed.

At the time of creation, did God know every person who would ever be saved, or is that yet to be determined until everyone exercises their free will?

The answers will vary.

Did the Lord do 'all that He could do" to save any of us, yet still waits to see and know what we will decide to do, to make not was all in vain?

 

[JesusFan]

it seems that according to Arminianism...the book of Revelation isn't "cast in stone"....God just might lose.

To open Theists, there is not sure future, as would be always shifting

 

[By the Book]

Did the Lord do 'all that He could do" to save any of us, yet still waits to see and know what we will decide to do, to make not was all in vain?

That presents another problem for the Arminian.

Jesus said that He will save His people from their sins. What if nobody ever believed in Him if it was left up to their own choice? That leaves open the possibility that His purpose could have been thwarted.