1000 years of Revelation 20.

[Marty]

I tend to see the OT prophets Messianic Age of a paradise restored on earth with the King Messiah ruling

But that gives satan too much credit Jesus reigns because He is God not because satan is bound.


Man is sinful enough in himself satan only enabled Adam and Eve to sin but they still did it

 

[JesusFan]

But that gives satan too much credit Jesus reigns because He is God not because satan is bound.


Man is sinful enough in himself satan only enabled Adam and Eve to sin but they still did it

The Millennium is where the world finally gets to experience life as God intended before the fall

 

[Arial]

It seems to be speaking of a time when he influence has been totally nullified

It qualifies the binding as not able to deceive the nations. Were all the nations deceived before Christ except the one where God chose to dwell as their God and reveal himself? Since the life, death, resurrection and ascension of Christ is the great commission to take the gospel to all nations. Is that being done? Can Satan stop that? Not right now. He is bound by the power of God from doing so. Jesus is gathering his flock through the preaching of the gospel. The releasing of Satan for a short time will come just before Christ's return and will likely result in a worldwide political/governments severe persecution of the church. One that forbids preaching the gospel, gathering for worship etc.

 

[Marty]

The Millennium is where the world finally gets to experience life as God intended before the fall

I believe that's our eternity, but if what you say is true would that be only because satan is bound?

 

[Arial]

I tend to see the OT prophets Messianic Age of a paradise restored on earth with the King Messiah ruling

Rev 21 says differently



Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

5 And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” 6 And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. 7 The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

 

[Josheb]

Why are you speaking to me like your a class teacher and I'm a student?

You are acting rude, arrogant and hypercritical telling me that I haven't answered your questions, and you won't even acknowledge that you stated that I said something and I didn't.

That's not a good way to debate or even get someone into dialog with you. I did answer your questions more than once if that's not good enough for you than that's your issue not mine.

I am asking simple and very relevant questions. That is all I am doing. I will respond in a manner consistent with the answers relevant to this op. Move the conversation forward by answering the question asked and there won't be any reason to imagine Post 37 is what's happening.


How has the belief we could be living in the time of Satan's release affected the way you live your life?

And...

To which eschatological point of view do you subscribe?

 

[Marty]

I am asking simple and very relevant questions. That is all I am doing. I will respond in a manner consistent with the answers relevant to this op. Move the conversation forward by answering the question asked and there won't be any reason to imagine Post 37 is what's happening.


How has the belief we could be living in the time of Satan's release affected the way you live your life?

And...

To which eschatological point of view do you subscribe?

You had a chance to continue this conversation but your offensive pride got in the way what a shame.

 

[Josheb]

I believe to understand when and why God will end our world we have to look back at the bible and see when and why God nearly destroyed the world in the past

There’s a lot to learn about understanding the end times in Genesis chapters 4-6

I would simply and solely like to know how the belief stated earlier influences your life. Nothing more.

How has the belief we could be living in the time of Satan's release affected the way you live your life?

 

[Carbon]

I believe that's our eternity, but if what you say is true would that be only because satan is bound?

Good question for a pre-mill

 

[Reformedguy]

Do you mean a full blown one, denying the future Second Event?

No. Orthodox Preterist. That would be hyper Preterism.

 

[Josheb]

No. Orthodox Preterist. That would be hyper Preterism.

I got into a dispute with one of the congregation's elders a few days ago when I said every Christian in the room was partial-preterist.

The word "preterism," comes from the Latin "praeter" which simply means "past" or "in the past." When applied to Bible interpretation it simply means the text in question occurred in the past. That's it. That is all the word means. What it is applied to eschatological prophecy it means end times prophecies have occurred in the past. Nothing more. It's not a system of interpretation; it is a conclusion of interpretation, a conclusion of exegesis. Christologically speaking, every Christian is preterist simply because to be a Christian is to be someone who believes ALL the Old Testament prophecies about the coming Messiah were fulfilled in the person of Jesus. He and he alone is God's Anointed One and there will be no other individual to fulfill those prophecies.

Most Christians accept the explanation up to that point. Where the dissent ensues is in the following...

Jesus came in the last days. Soteriology is eschatological. Or to word it in laymen's terms (because one of the people hearing me discuss this with the elder asked, "What is Crystalology, eschatolology, and soteriology?"), salvation occurred in the last days.

1 Peter 1:17-21
17If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth; 18knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ. 20For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you 21who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Jesus appeared in the last times. He was foreknown when the world was founded but he was revealed in the last times. THOSE last times, not some other last times; the last times of whole scripture. Salvation is eschatological.

Acts 2:14-18 ESV
14But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. 15For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel: 17‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; 18even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.'"

That prophecy of Joel's was fulfilled at Pentecost and Joel explicitly stated it would be fulfilled in the last days. That is eschatology.

These are only two examples why futurism and criticisms of preterism fail. Scripture itself reports much of what was prophetic for the first century Jew and Christian is now fulfilled. Most criticisms of preterism are strawmen. The strawman begins with defining preterism as the belief ALL prophecy has ALL been fulfilled when the fact is the word "praeter" simply means past, all Christians are Christological preterists, and the overwhelming majority of eschatological preterists are partial-prets. This, then, begs a serious and very important question:

Why do the critics lie about preterism?

The elder said he'd get back to me when I asked him to name a Reformed theologian who was not in some way partial-preterist.




See..... apparently it's not just you guys I irritate without any intent to do so .




1 Corinthians 15:50-54
50Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory."


Every Christian here has been saved from sin, washed clean of all prior offence (2 Pet. 1:9) but s/he will not be incorruptible and immortal until the other side of the grave has been reached. That is where our inheritance in Christ is completed. Salvation is eschatological.

And the exact same guy who went silently like a lamb to slaughter will return not so silently and he'll be doing the slaughtering. Preterists (the majority population of preterists) believe and teach Christ will return. Revelation 20 does NOT actually state Jesus is physically on the earth during the 1000-year period. Most of Revelation was already in John's past (Rev. 1:19) The last days and the ends of the ages had befallen the first century Christian. Satan had been cast down and out and had been bound long before Revelation was written. The gospel was preached in all of creation.

That does not preclude Jesus coming again.

 

[JesusFan]

No. Orthodox Preterist. That would be hyper Preterism.

Any hyper version of a theology is problematic, such as Hyper pret , Hyper Dispy, or hyper Cal

 

[JesusFan]

I got into a dispute with one of the congregation's elders a few days ago when I said every Christian in the room was partial-preterist.

The word "preterism," comes from the Latin "praeter" which simply means "past" or "in the past." When applied to Bible interpretation it simply means the text in question occurred in the past. That's it. That is all the word means. What it is applied to eschatological prophecy it means end times prophecies have occurred in the past. Nothing more. It's not a system of interpretation; it is a conclusion of interpretation, a conclusion of exegesis. Christologically speaking, every Christian is preterist simply because to be a Christian is to be someone who believes ALL the Old Testament prophecies about the coming Messiah were fulfilled in the person of Jesus. He and he alone is God's Anointed One and there will be no other individual to fulfill those prophecies.

Most Christians accept the explanation up to that point. Where the dissent ensues is in the following...

Jesus came in the last days. Soteriology is eschatological. Or to word it in laymen's terms (because one of the people hearing me discuss this with the elder asked, "What is Crystalology, eschatolology, and soteriology?"), salvation occurred in the last days.

1 Peter 1:17-21
17If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth; 18knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ. 20For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you 21who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Jesus appeared in the last times. He was foreknown when the world was founded but he was revealed in the last times. THOSE last times, not some other last times; the last times of whole scripture. Salvation is eschatological.

Acts 2:14-18 ESV
14But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. 15For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel: 17‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; 18even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.'"

That prophecy of Joel's was fulfilled at Pentecost and Joel explicitly stated it would be fulfilled in the last days. That is eschatology.

These are only two examples why futurism and criticisms of preterism fail. Scripture itself reports much of what was prophetic for the first century Jew and Christian is now fulfilled. Most criticisms of preterism are strawmen. The strawman begins with defining preterism as the belief ALL prophecy has ALL been fulfilled when the fact is the word "praeter" simply means past, all Christians are Christological preterists, and the overwhelming majority of eschatological preterists are partial-prets. This, then, begs a serious and very important question:

Why do the critics lie about preterism?

The elder said he'd get back to me when I asked him to name a Reformed theologian who was not in some way partial-preterist.




See..... apparently it's not just you guys I irritate without any intent to do so .




1 Corinthians 15:50-54
50Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory."


Every Christian here has been saved from sin, washed clean of all prior offence (2 Pet. 1:9) but s/he will not be incorruptible and immortal until the other side of the grave has been reached. That is where our inheritance in Christ is completed. Salvation is eschatological.

And the exact same guy who went silently like a lamb to slaughter will return not so silently and he'll be doing the slaughtering. Preterists (the majority population of preterists) believe and teach Christ will return. Revelation 20 does NOT actually state Jesus is physically on the earth during the 1000-year period. Most of Revelation was already in John's past (Rev. 1:19) The last days and the ends of the ages had befallen the first century Christian. Satan had been cast down and out and had been bound long before Revelation was written. The gospel was preached in all of creation.

That does not preclude Jesus coming again.

Anything regarding eschatology in Revelation 4 forward would be pretty much still future events though

 

[JesusFan]

Rev 21 says differently



Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

5 And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” 6 And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. 7 The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

That would be the eternal state after the messianic Kingdom reign

 

[Josheb]

Anything regarding eschatology in Revelation 4 forward would be pretty much still future events though

Not according to Revelation 1.

 

[JesusFan]

Not according to Revelation 1.

If you are referring to what must take place soon/shortly, refers to when these events start to fall, it will be quickly one after another in time period leading up to the Second Coming

 

[Arial]

That would be the eternal state after the messianic Kingdom reign

Where is what you call the Messianic kingdom discussed in the other epistles? Where does Jesus mention a Messianic kingdom? Where does Revelation mention a Messianic kingdom?

 

[Josheb]

If you are referring to what must take place soon/shortly, refers to when these events start to fall, it will be quickly one after another in time period leading up to the Second Coming

That is not what the text states. That may be what you were taught it means, but that is not what is states. Stick first with what is stated. Rev. 22:18. I gotta go but let me recommend you get out your Bible and read the first 20 verses of the book and read it as literally as you can, as objectively as you can. Take it exactly as written without all the biases all the many teachers have preached. Start with the text itself exactly as written, apart from all the Historicist, Amillennial, Postmillennial, Dispensationalist, and Idealist viewpoints you've heard over your Christian life. Stop yourself each time you hear your mind say, "It refers to....."

It does not "refer" to anything other than what it states.

Where it does refer to something other than what is stated the text explains itself. Once all the millennia of speculation is discarded the book of Revelation is not particularly difficult to understand.