Works and Salvation

[Soyeong]

There is a sense of works that we are required to have done first in order to earn something as a wage that is different from the sense of works that are intrinsically required to have the experience of doing something. For example, there is a difference between work that someone is required to have done first to earn a wage to pay for the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari for an hour and the work of driving it that is intrinsically required to have that experience. The opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari for an hour can also be given as a gift that requires someone to do the work to have that experience, but where that work contributes nothing towards earning the opportunity to have that experience as a wage.

While there are many verse like Romans 4:1-5 that speak against works being required to earn our justification/righteousness/salvation/eternal life as a wage in the first sense, there are many verses like Hebrews 5:9 support that they require us to be doers of works in the second sense. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we are not required to have first obeyed it in order to earn our salvation as a wage, having the experience of living in obedience to it is intrinsically the content of the gift of Jesus saving us from having the experience of not living in obedience to it. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not required to have first done those works in order to earn our salvation as the result and we are not required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us how to have the experience doing those works is intrinsically the content of His gift of saving us having the experience of not doing those works.

In other words, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus (John 17:3) and the gift of His law is His instructions for how to have that experience (Exodus 33:13, Matthew 7:23), not for how to earn eternal life as a wage.

 

[Mr GLee]

so while we are not required to have first obeyed it in order to earn our salvation as a wage, having the experience of living in obedience to it is intrinsically the content of the gift of Jesus saving us from having the experience of not living in obedience to it.

Can't earn salvation living in bodies of death .

Salvation, the better thing accompanies salvation. God promises he will not forget the good works we offer according the power of His name .

Some think their experience of crucifying Christ every time one sins exposing him to shame to the world as if one demonstration was not enough.

Hebrew 4;9-10 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

 

[Ghada]

There is a sense of works that we are required to have done first in order to earn something as a wage that is different from the sense of works that are intrinsically required to have the experience of doing something.

Well said. No work can save us, but only justify or condemn us, as having the saving faith of Jesus Christ.

Even some teachers of salvation and justification by faith alone, go on to demand works to prove their faith is 'salvific': They begin to preach justification by works, that judge their faith.

It's rare to see anyone teaching justification by faith alone consistently, where no works ever have anything to do with being saved and justified by their faith. No matter how they may be living at the time, so long as they have faith in being saved by Christ, they are.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4),

True. Far too many preaching the salvation of Jesus Christ, neglect to preach what we are saved from, or worse yet, preach that they are saved from the guilt and condemnation of sin, but not the sinning.

so we are not required to have first done those works in order to earn our salvation as the result and we are not required to do those works as the result of having first been saved,

Unless there is a typo, the second part appears to contradict the need to do those works, to continue having the experience in the first place.

Paul preaches against being saved by any work of law. James preaches the need to do the law, in order to continue experiencing the gift of righteousness and justification with God.

We are not forgiven of sins by any work we do, whether by law, faith, or good will. We continue being forgiven of sins by doing works justified with God.

Titus 3:8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

No one doing a work of iniquity is justified with God.

but rather God graciously teaching us how to have the experience doing those works is intrinsically the content of His gift of saving us having the experience of not doing those works.

True. He does so by giving us power of His Spirit and divine nature to do His good will, and experience walking with His Son in the light, and not experience our past walk in darkness without Christ:

Eph 2:12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Col 1:21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled, In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

In other words, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus (John 17:3) and the gift of His law is His instructions for how to have that experience (Exodus 33:13, Matthew 7:23), not for how to earn eternal life as a wage.

Well said again. By repentance with faith in Christ, we can expereince the grace of walking as He walked, and learn how to obey God in all things, even as He did.

Heb{5:8} Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; {5:9} And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Of course, that expereince is not just in the good times, but also if need be in the bad, through the sufferings of temptations, tribulations, and persecutions of this life, that He likewise suffered.

2 Peter{2:21} For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

James{5:10} Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

Heb 4:15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

You make the important difference between how to become saved, and how to be justified with Jesus' faith and salvation. We cannot work to earn the new eternal car of Christ given freely by grace, but we must work to earn the right to continue driving it in this life and beyond...

1 Thess{3:23} And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; {3:24} Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. {3:25} But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

{3:4} Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. {3:5} He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev 22:14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.