Who is JESUS to You?
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Josheb
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AMEN!
Revelation 22:20 (ESV)
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!
P
ppierac
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Jesus the Nazarene, was a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in our history, You should know this...
This is the biblical Jesus recorded in History!!!
Paul
This is the biblical Jesus recorded in History!!!
Paul
Jesus is the image the invisible God (Colossians 1:15) and the radiance of God's glory and exact image of His nature (Hebrews 1:3). We can't see invisible aspects of God's nature such as holiness, righteousness, goodness, justice, mercy, faithfulness, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control, and so forth, but Jesus is the living embodiment of those aspects of God's nature in a form that we can see, so Jesus is who we see when we look at the Father. In other words, Jesus is God's word made flesh (John 17:3), so if all those invisible aspects of God's nature that His word was given to teach us how to express were personified into a body that we can see, then that would be Jesus, and the way to know him, love him, believe in him, worship him, and testify about him is by partaking in the divine nature through following his example of obedience to God's word. The problem with idolatry is that it misrepresents the nature of who God is, so if Jesus had been anything less than the exact image of His nature, then worshiping him as God would have been idolatry. Our salvation is from sin and sin is embodying what is contrary to God's nature, so us embodying God's nature through faith in the one who is the embodiment of God's nature is the way that he saves us from not embodying God's nature.
Don't neglect Acts 2:21.
P
ppierac
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If we may let our Lord and King have the final word. Jesus plainly states, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be his worshipers. God is spirit; and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:23-24). Who does Jesus declare are the "true worshipers"? He insists, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father…" If we would be amongst the true worshipers we must be with Jesus worshiping this Father. Evidently, those who worship "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, three persons in one God," Are not said by Jesus to be the true worshippers. Those who worship the Father as the "only true God" are. The worshipper of the One God, the Father, as Jesus’ own affirmation that he is the true worshipper.
This is the biblical pattern throughout. The so-called Lord's prayer, the model prayer, teaches us to "pray in this way: our Father who art in heaven…"(Matt. 6:9). This pattern of prayer and worship prescribed by our Lord Jesus is followed and sanctioned by every example given in Scripture. See the following:
“Now may the God who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus; that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom.15:5-6).
" For this reason I bow my knees before the Father," (Eph 3:14)
" giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, " (Eph 5:20)
" We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, "( Col 1:3 )
"giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light." (Col 1:12)
"And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father "through" him." (Col 3:17)
This list is by no means exhaustive. But it is sufficient to show that we are, with our Lord Jesus, to worship and pray to the Father. This is the usual pattern of prayer and worship in the New Testament. They prayed to the one God through the name or authority of Jesus Christ. They
evidently were not aware that the Holy Spirit was God (a third person), for wherein all the pages of the Bible to the Saints pray to the Holy Spirit? And where in all the pages of Scripture do the worshipers of God sing to the Holy Spirit as is the general custom within Christendom today?
To all of this there is a very simple solution. Once again it comes back to a failure to understand biblical culture; a failure to read the Bible through Hebrew eyes. In the Old Testament in main Hebrew word for worship is shachah. It occurs about 170 times but the surprising thing is that only about half of this number relate to the worship of God as God. This fact is hidden in our English translations. The translators prefer to say "bow down to" or "revere" when shachah refers to homage paid to noble persons, whether Angels or men, but say "worship" when God is
the object. This is a false distinction the original texts does not support. Here are just a view
examples:
Lot "worshiped" the two strangers who looked like normal travelers as they entered Sodom (Gen. 19:1).
Abraham "worshipped" the Gentile leaders of the land where he lived (Gen. 23:7).
Jacob "worshipped" his older brother Esau (Gen. 33:3).
Joseph's brothers "worshipped" him (Gen. 43:26).
Ruth "worshipped" Boaz (Ruth 2:10).
David "worshipped" King Saul (1 Sam. 24:8).
Mephibosheth fell on his face and "worshipped" David (2 Sam. 9:6).
Abigail "worshipped" David the outlaw (1 Sam 25:23, 41).
The whole congregation "worshipped" the King (1 Chron. 9:20).
These are just a few instances of the many that could be cited to show the reluctance of the translators to consistently translate shachah as "worship" when worship of important persons was obviously a common feature of Hebrew culture. In Scripture worship is offered to God and to men. There is no special word and the Old Testament for "worship" reserved exclusively for God.
But there is a reluctance to translate this one-word consistently. If you looked up your English translations of the above verses you will find that you do not use the "w" word. They prefer to say "bowed down" or "revered" or "pay homage to" instead of "worshiped." This inconsistency of translation has created the false impression that only God can be worshiped.
So then, how do we explain this in light of the clear command that we are to worship God the Father alone as both the first commandment and Jesus himself command? Is this a contradiction after all? No way. The answer is that whenever men "worshiped" other men it was a relative worship. In most of the examples above it is clear that the ones worshiped were God's representatives. Once again we are back to the principle of Jewish agency. The Israelites had no difficulty in offering this proportional or relative worship to the ones who came in Gods Name, with God's message. It is obvious that the first commandment "You must not bow yourself down [shachah] to them nor serve them" is not a prohibition against a relative worship of those worthy of it. If this was the case then obviously all these Old Testament godly men and women sinned greatly. God even promises a coming day when He will make our enemies "to come and worship at your feet, and to know that I have loved you" (Rev. 3:9). Such worship of the Saints at God's degree is clearly a relative and proportional worship. It is perfectly legitimate to give honor to whom honor is due. This is why many Jews felt no impropriety in "worshiping" Jesus in the Gospels because they recognized him as a prophet of God, or the Messiah sent from God. But it is preposterous to think these good people believe Jesus was Jehovah God just because they worshiped him. When they saw and heard the mighty works of Jesus they glorified God through him (Matt. 9:8; 11:27; 28:18; Luke 7:16; 9:11; 10:22). This fits the whole will of the New Testament teaching that it is God the Father who is to receive glory through His son Jesus (Eph. 1:3, 6, 12; 1 Pet. 1:3; Heb. 13:15, etc.). Christ’s exaltation is the means to a higher end. For through him all worship is ultimately directed to God and Father.
To worship him (Jesus) as Lord Messiah is thus a divinely pleasing but subordinate or relative worship. It is instructive to read that in the coming Kingdom the Lord Jesus will orchestrate the worship of his brethren in the ultimate praise of his Father. He will "proclaim" the Name of God to his "brothers" and he will "in the mist of the congregation singing your praise" (Heb. 2:12). There, in that glorious Kingdom, Jesus Christ will continue to be a joyful worshiper of God his Father. Thus, the one God and Father he is alone worshiped absolutely. All other divinely appointed worship is homage to persons who are not God himself. Jesus is among those worthy of such worship for he is worshiped as the one Messiah, God's supreme son and agent.
Jesus knew the prophecy: "Worship the Lord with reverence, and… do homage to the Son" (Ps.2: 11-12). Jesus knew God his Father had decreed "Let all the Angels of God worship him" (Psalms 97:7). Jesus knew that the angelic messengers of Jehovah had in the past received
relative worship from God-pleasing men and women. Jesus knew that of the one true God could be addressed as though they were God. And Jesus knew he was the Son and ultimately agent of God, so how much greater his destiny! As the "only begotten Son" whom the father had "sealed" and commissioned he knew that whoever honored him honored the Father also. This was his Father's decree (Psalms 2:11-12; 97:7).
Psalms 2:11-12 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
Psalms 97:7 All worshipers of images are put to shame, who make their boast in worthless idols; worship him, all you gods!
2Co 4:4 …the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Jesus is your coming Lord and King... for the next 1000 years.... not your God
Paul
The way to worship the Father is by testifying about His nature, and the Son is the exact image of God's nature, so the way to worship the Son is identical to the way to worship the Father, so what difference does it make which label we use to refer to the being with the nature that we are worshiping?
P
ppierac
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It's you whom fail to understand Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know-
Is a man attested by god.... and had miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him.... some how .... Now God???
Don't neglect God's word and teachings to You.... Study ACT 2:22.... The very first words to the beginning of the Church at Pentecost
Look at the set up.... Act 2:14 But Peter stood up with the eleven, raised his voice, and addressed them: "You men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, know this and listen carefully to what I say. Act 2:15 In spite of what you think, these men are not drunk, for it is only nine o'clock in the morning.
Now the truth to read and believe... "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know-
Silly Child... Peter never knew Jesus as God.... But God's supreme Agent... Like Moses said!!!
Many prophecies indicated that the Coming One would arise from the "seed," the stock of humanity, in a particular from Abrahamic and Davidic stock. The Messiah would be from the biological chain within the human family, specifically of Jewish pedigree: "The Lord your God will rise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your own countrymen [literally, brothers]; you shall listen to him" (Deut.18:15). In this passage, Moses predicts that the coming Messiah would be a person "like me," raised up from "among" the people of Israel, and that God would not speak to the people directly, because they were afraid that if God spoke without a mediator they would die (V16). The coming "prophet" would be a man of whom it is said that God would "put his word in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. And it shall come about whoever will not listen to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him” (v. 18-19). To say that the Messiah is God Himself is to contradict the whole point of this prophecy. For it announces that the ultimate spokesman for God is expressly not God but a human being. The New Testament says that Jesus is the one who fulfilled this prophecy (Acts 3:22; 7:37). Understandably, no Jew who believe theses Scriptures ever imagined that the baby born in Bethlehem was going to be Jehovah himself come as a human baby.
In addition, Jehovah God says clearly that he is not a man (Numbers 23:19; Job 9:32). The converse is therefore true: if a person is a man, then he can not be God.
Your following the Teaching of Men....
Paul
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You dodged my question. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, so obedience to it is the way to worship in spirit and in truth, which is the way to worship the Father, and which is the same way to worship the Son, so again what difference does it make? In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he might know Him and Israel too, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life (John 17:3). If the way to know Jesus were not identical to the way to know the Father, then that would men that knowing the Father was insufficient for eternal life and that we must know Jesus in addition to that to be sufficient, so you would need to explain why that makes sense.
There is only one God, in three distinct divine persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Jesus said that he who hears his apostles hear him, and he who rejects what his apostles say, reject what he says (Lk 10:16).
Jesus did not reveal his divinity while on earth. That was left to the apostles after his ascension in:
Mt 3:3, Lk 1:67-68, 76 (Isa 40:3) - Jesus is the YHWH of whom the voice calling in the wilderness (John the Baptist) prepared the way.
Ro 10:9, 13 (Joel 2:32) - Paul teaches Jesus is the YHWH of Joel's prophecy that "everyone who calls on the name of YHWH will be saved."
Heb 1:6 (Dt 32:43) - Paul quotes Moses' song referring to YHWH and says it applies to Jesus.
Rev 1:12-18 (Isa 44:6, 48:12) - in John's vision the man is Jesus (1:18, 2:8) who identifies himself as the First and the Last which is YHWH identification of himself.
Rev 21:6, 22:12-13 (Rev 1:8) - in John's vision (Jesus) identifies himself as the Alpha and Omega of Rev 1:8, which is YHWH.
Rev 21:5-7 (Rev 20:11-13) - in John's vision, Jesus, the one on the throne (Rev 20:11-13 with Jn 5:22, 27, 9:39), is God (Rev 21:7).
The Elohim and YHWH who created all things (Ge 1:1, Is 44:24, Jer 10:16) is Jesus (Jn 1:3, Col 1:16-17, Heb 1:2b, 10).
Jesus said that he who hears his apostle hear him, and he who rejects what his apostles say, reject what he says (Lk 10:16).
Do you reject what Jesus says above through his apostles?
P
ppierac
Guest
I am the Alpha and the Omega.
This is referenced to Revelation 1:8. But Revelation 1:8 is talking about The Almighty, Revelation 22:12 is not using this title for Jesus but for God again. If we read Revelation 22:6 it tells us who the subject is, "The Lord, the God of prophetic spirits." Jesus does say in Revelation 1:17 that, "I am the first and the last." We shall examine what he meant by that statement.
Just because the same title is used to describe two people does not mean that those two people are one. As we can easily read… David called King Saul "My Lord " but that does not make Saul God (1 Samuel 24:8).
Israel’s Judges were called "saviors" but that does not make them and Jesus one person? (Nehemiah 9:27).
Jeroboam the Second of Israel is called "Israel’s savior," but that does not make him Jesus? (2 Kings 13:5)
Before we discuss these verses it would benefit us to understand John’s view of God.
Examples:
John 17:3
"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."
Revelation 1:6
"Who (Jesus) has made us into a kingdom, priests for his God and Father."
John 20:17
"But go to my brothers and tell them, "I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."
In these verses John does not consider Jesus to be God in any way. For John, Jesus has a God. John also does not believe Jesus to be omniscient even after his resurrected state. Revelation 1:1 says:
"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him."
Even after his resurrection Jesus is not omniscient. God still gives him revelations. Emphasis on God gives him. Now we will look at Revelation 1:17 with the correct background of John’s thinking, and not with a mind set on making Jesus God at all costs.
It is obvious that God Almighty is the first and the last, but how is Jesus also the first and the last? Jesus is the first because he is the firstborn in two ways. One, he is the firstborn of God, which to the Jews implied that as the firstborn you are entitled to be the heir of your father, which Jesus is (Hebrews 1:2). Also according to Strong’s Greek Dictionary it means foremost in importance, which Jesus certainly is. This also corresponds with Psalms 89: 28 - 30.
Secondly, Jesus is the firstborn from the dead to be resurrected, which is what Jesus is speaking about in Revelation 1:18 which follows his statement that he is the first and the last. It reads:
"I am the first and the last, the one who lives. Once I was dead, but now I am alive forever."
This is also is in agreement with Colossians 1: 18. Jesus is the last because when he comes again it will be the end of the present age, and he will be in effect the last one to enter this world while it is still under the influence of Satan. He will then usher in the Messianic kingdom of God!!!
Try again Eleanor...
Paul
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My Advocate.
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ppierac
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1Co 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
Study Harder...
Paul
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1 John 2:1 LSB
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
