What did Christ say about the Law?

[Hobie]

Now the law is based on God's holy nature and as such scripture states are holy, just, and unchanging, and we see this in the Ten Commandments. But then you also have the ceremonial law which focused the people’s attention on God and gave the people signs that point to the coming Messiah, such as the Passover, and the sacrifices of the unblemished lamb by the priests. One was written with Gods own finger, and the other was from Moses.

Matthew 5:17-19
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

We see here that Jesus stated "Think not that I am come to destroy the law..but to fulfill", what did He mean? Now, since Jesus knew what laws His death would fulfill, would He be saying this about the Ten Commandments if He were going to fulfill them? So what was He fulfilling, it seems clear it was what pointed to Him, Moses’ ceremonial law which is evident if we see what Jesus said when asked.

Mark 12:28-31
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The Ten Commandments are arranged in two groups, the first group of four commandments deal with our relationship to God, the second group of the fifth to the tenth commandments deal with our relationship to one another. When Jesus talks about 'not that I am come to destroy the law', it is obvious that it is the Ten Commandments Jesus is talking about. So did Jesus want to do away with the Ten Commandments or did He came to fulfill that which pointed to Him as the Lamb of God, the ceremonial law of Moses. We have to understand His purpose...

 

[jeremiah1five]

Now the law is based on God's holy nature and as such scripture states are holy, just, and unchanging, and we see this in the Ten Commandments. But then you also have the ceremonial law which focused the people’s attention on God and gave the people signs that point to the coming Messiah, such as the Passover, and the sacrifices of the unblemished lamb by the priests. One was written with Gods own finger, and the other was from Moses.

Matthew 5:17-19
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

We see here that Jesus stated "Think not that I am come to destroy the law..but to fulfill", what did He mean? Now, since Jesus knew what laws His death would fulfill, would He be saying this about the Ten Commandments if He were going to fulfill them? So what was He fulfilling, it seems clear it was what pointed to Him, Moses’ ceremonial law which is evident if we see what Jesus said when asked.

Mark 12:28-31
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The Ten Commandments are arranged in two groups, the first group of four commandments deal with our relationship to God, the second group of the fifth to the tenth commandments deal with our relationship to one another. When Jesus talks about 'not that I am come to destroy the law', it is obvious that it is the Ten Commandments Jesus is talking about. So did Jesus want to do away with the Ten Commandments or did He came to fulfill that which pointed to Him as the Lamb of God, the ceremonial law of Moses. We have to understand His purpose...

Everything in the Tabernacle describes some aspect of Christ's life and work with regard to the salvation of His people. His people being identified clearly as those in Covenant with Him through the Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New Covenants. In short, the Hebrews/children of Jacob/Israel.
The earthly Tabernacle was patterned after the heavenly Tabernacle in which before God created heaven, earth, and man, He was actively involved in performing sacrifice in preparation of eventual creation of all things.

Christ makes no distinction as to what parts of the Law He came to fulfill so it must be taken to mean ALL aspects of the Law not just the Moral Laws. This includes the Ceremonial as well as the Social Laws. His life and work are described in the Tabernacle Laws.

Christ could not nor would not "do away" with the Tabernacle Laws since every aspect of the Laws describe every aspect of His life and work. That would be tantamount to deicide, if you will, self-murder. And if the Tabernacle Law describe the life and work of Christ and such Laws are eternal, then He cannot "do away" with them. Even in fulfilling them the Tabernacle Laws continue to exist and are useful to God.

 

[Soyeong]

Now the law is based on God's holy nature and as such scripture states are holy, just, and unchanging, and we see this in the Ten Commandments. But then you also have the ceremonial law which focused the people’s attention on God and gave the people signs that point to the coming Messiah, such as the Passover, and the sacrifices of the unblemished lamb by the priests. One was written with Gods own finger, and the other was from Moses.

In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God commanded him without departed from it, so all of the Law of Moses was given by God and all of God's laws have the same moral authority regardless of whether God spoke them directly to the Israelites or told Moses to write them down. The Bible never lists which laws are part of the ceremonial law and never even refers to that as being a category of law. The phrase "Law and the Prophets" straightforwardly refers to everything in the Law and the Prophets, not to just the Ten Commandments, and everything that God commanded in the Mosaic Law is an example of how to obey the greatest two commandments, which is why Jesus said that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them. For example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit thing like idolatry, adultery, theft, and murder, but we also won't commit things like rape, kidnapping, and favoritism in accordance with the rest of the Mosaic Law.

All of the Mosaic Law based on His holy nature, which is why the Bible frequently uses the same terms to describe aspects of the nature of the Mosaic Law as it does to describe aspects of the nature of God, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the Mosaic Law (Matthew 23:23). For instance, in 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, such as with keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3) and with refraining from eating unclean animals (Leviticus 11:44-45), so of which you may have arbitrarily decided are ceremonial laws.

Matthew 5:17-19
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

We see here that Jesus stated "Think not that I am come to destroy the law..but to fulfill", what did He mean? Now, since Jesus knew what laws His death would fulfill, would He be saying this about the Ten Commandments if He were going to fulfill them? So what was He fulfilling, it seems clear it was what pointed to Him, Moses’ ceremonial law which is evident if we see what Jesus said when asked.

Mark 12:28-31
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The Ten Commandments are arranged in two groups, the first group of four commandments deal with our relationship to God, the second group of the fifth to the tenth commandments deal with our relationship to one another. When Jesus talks about 'not that I am come to destroy the law', it is obvious that it is the Ten Commandments Jesus is talking about. So did Jesus want to do away with the Ten Commandments or did He came to fulfill that which pointed to Him as the Lamb of God, the ceremonial law of Moses. We have to understand His purpose...

We have a vertical relationship with our parents because they are our creators that is not like the horizontal relationships that we have with our neighbors, so it would be better to place the 5th Commandment in the first group, especially because the five principles of the first five Commandments parallel the principles of the last five Commandments, but are expressed differently when in regard to vertical or horizontal relationships. For example, the 2nd Commandment against idolatry is to our vertical relationship with our Creator what the 7th Commandments against adultery is to our horizontal relationships with our neighbors. Moreover, the rest of the Mosaic Law expounds upon these five principles.

From the NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo:
"to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment"

So after Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-20 that he came to fulfill the law, he then immediately proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it as it should be. Likewise, according to Galatians 5:14, loving our neighbor fulfills the entire law, which again refers to correctly obeying it as it should be, not to something unique that Jesus did on the cross. Jesus did not even mention his death once anywhere in Matthew 5. In Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, which again refers to correctly obeying it as it should be and is something that anyone can do. Moreover, there is much discussion in other Jewish writings about how to fulfill the law in the sense of how to correctly obey it.

As followers of Christ, we should live in a way that points towards him by continuing to obey the Mosaic Law in accordance with the example that he set for us to follow rather than a way that points away from him by refusing to follow his example.

 

[A branch]

Luke 16:16

16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Rom 3:19-21
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

 

[Soyeong]

Luke 16:16

16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Rom 3:19-21
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

What is your understanding of those verses?

 

[A branch]

What is your understanding of those verses?

Nothing in the OLD law and Nothing in the OLD covenant will be in the New Covenant. That said Jesus walked the earth for 3 to 31/2 years everyday teaching His Apostles the New Covenant and also TeachING the New Covenant starting in Matt 4:17 at Galilee of the Gentiles. NoT once does he say to the thousands that followed him or to his Apostles follow any part of the old Law. Jesus spoke from his on mouth what the commandments are to be in the New Covenant. How one show be. Jesus fulfilled the old law so as to set it aside and He shows us how to set ild law aside in order to follow New Covenant.

 

[Soyeong]

Nothing in the OLD law and Nothing in the OLD covenant will be in the New Covenant. That said Jesus walked the earth for 3 to 31/2 years everyday teaching His Apostles the New Covenant and also TeachING the New Covenant starting in Matt 4:17 at Galilee of the Gentiles. NoT once does he say to the thousands that followed him or to his Apostles follow any part of the old Law. Jesus spoke from his on mouth what the commandments are to be in the New Covenant. How one show be. Jesus fulfilled the old law so as to set it aside and He shows us how to set ild law aside in order to follow New Covenant.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom. Furthermore, Christ set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). So Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and he did not establish the New Covenant for the purpose of undermining anything that the spent his ministry teaching, but rather the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33). Furthermore, Jesus did not establish the New Covenant until the Last Supper, which means that everything that he taught prior to that point was in regard to how to live under the Mosaic Covenant. In addition, there are many examples of laws that were part of the Mosaic Covenant being instructed to those who are under the New Covenant, such as in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Galatians 5:19-21, Titus 3:1-3, and Acts 15:19-21.

In Luke 16:16, Jesus said that since John the Gospel of the Kingdom of God has been preached, which called for repentance from our disobedience to the Mosaic Law, so he was not speaking about transitioning away from it. In Luke 16:17, Jesus said that it would be easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for the least part to disappear from the Mosaic Law, so again, the was not transitioning away from it. In addition, in Luke 16:18, Jesus proceeded to teach how to obey the Mosaic Law. Neither Jesus nor John taught people to stop repenting because the Mosaic Law has ended, but just the opposite.

In Matthew 5:17-20, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came not to abolish it, so you should not interpret fulfilling the law as meaning essentially the same thing as abolishing it. Rather, "to fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo), so after Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law, he then proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it as it should be. According to Galatians 5:14, loving our neighbor fulfills the entire law, so again it refers to correctly obeying it as it should be and it refers to something that countless people have done, not to setting it aside. In Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, but you do not consistently interpret that as setting aside the Law of Christ.

 

[A branch]

The apostles were taught by Jesus face to face. Did they turn against him. by saying these things.
Matt 28:18
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Acts 13:39
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Luke 16:16
16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
John 5:22-23
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
John 5:45
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
Acts 15:28-31
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation. ( Notice no old law)
Romans 3:19-21
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 8:2, 4
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 10:4
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
2Cor 3:3,6
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Gal 3:10-14
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

This is very few of the verses that say the Law is not used anymore.

 

[Soyeong]

The apostles were taught by Jesus face to face. Did they turn against him. by saying these things.

While those verses can be interpreted with that slant, they don't have to be. For example, in Romans 10:4, while Greek word "telos" can be translated as "end", but it doesn't need to be because there are other verses like 1 Timothy 1:5, Romans 6:21-22, or James 5:11 where it clearly should be translated as "purpose" or "goal", though even "end" can mean "intention" or "aim".

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, in 1 John 2:4, those who say that they know Christ but don't obey his commands are liars, in 1 John 3:4-6, those who continue to practice sin in transgression of God's law have neither seen nor known him, and in Matthew 7:23, Christ said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the purpose or goal of the law, which is eternal life (John 17:3), which is also why Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying God's commandments (Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28).

In Romans 9:30-10:4, the Israelites had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they pursued God's law as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own instead of pursing God's law as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, this faith references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey, that obedience to it brings life, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised Jesus from the dead (Titus 2:14), so nothing in the passage supports that God's law is not used anymore, but just the opposite.

Matt 28:18
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

In Matthew 28:16-20, Jesus instructed his disciples to make disciples of all nations teaching everything that he taught them, which includes teaching to follow his example of obedience to the Mosaic Law.

Acts 13:39
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

We do not earn our justification as the result of obeying the Mosaic Law because it was never given as a means of doing that, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't still obey it for the purpose for which it was given of knowing God and Jesus.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Acts-13-39/

Luke 16:16
16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

As discussed in my last post, Luke 16:16-18 also does not support the position that God's law is not used anymore.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Luke-16-16/

John 5:22-23
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Jesus is God's word made flesh, so the way to honor him is by obeying God's word, not by rejecting it.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/John-5-23/

John 5:45
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

In John 5:45-46, we can't believe what Jesus said if we don't believe what Moses wrote, which again is contrary to how you are trying to use it.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/John-5-45/

Acts 15:28-31
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation. ( Notice no old law)

At the very least those verses say that there are commands from the Mosaic Law that Gentiles should follow.

Romans 3:19-21

Indeed, it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is, so we should refrain from doing what God has revealed to be sin.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Romans-3-21/

Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

This said that our faith does not abolish God's law, but rather our faith upholds it, yet you are seeking to abolish it rather than uphold it by faith.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Romans-3-31/

Romans 8:2, 4

In Romans 8:2-7, Jesus set us free from sin so that we might be free to obey God's law and meet its righteous requirement and those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law, which again is arguing against the position that it is not used anymore.

2Cor 3:3,6
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts. There are many verses that repeatedly say that obedience to God's law brings life, such as Deuteronomy 30:11-20, Deuteronomy 32:47, Proverbs 3:18, and Proverbs 6:23. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/2-Corinthians-3-6/

Gal 3:10-14

According to Deuteronomy 27-28, relying on God's law is the way to be blessed while not relying on it is the way to be cursed, so Galatians 3:10 should not be interpreted as quoting from that passage in order to support a point that is arguing against it. Rather, the way to be cursed is by not relying on God's law, so everyone who relies on works of the law come under the curse for not relying on God's law. In Romans 3:27-31, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works while he said that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-12. Being released from the curse of the law is being released from the curse of not relying on it so that we can be free to rely on it.

 

[Mr GLee]

Everything in the Tabernacle describes some aspect of Christ's life and work with regard to the salvation of His people. His people being identified clearly as those in Covenant with Him through the Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New Covenants. In short, the Hebrews/children of Jacob/Israel.
The earthly Tabernacle was patterned after the heavenly Tabernacle in which before God created heaven, earth, and man, He was actively involved in performing sacrifice in preparation of eventual creation of all things.

Christ makes no distinction as to what parts of the Law He came to fulfill so it must be taken to mean ALL aspects of the Law not just the Moral Laws. This includes the Ceremonial as well as the Social Laws. His life and work are described in the Tabernacle Laws.

Christ could not nor would not "do away" with the Tabernacle Laws since every aspect of the Laws describe every aspect of His life and work. That would be tantamount to deicide, if you will, self-murder. And if the Tabernacle Law describe the life and work of Christ and such Laws are eternal, then He cannot "do away" with them. Even in fulfilling them the Tabernacle Laws continue to exist and are useful to God.

Tabernacle or ceremonial law were shadows to the unbelieving. The shadows tcould not make those who performed them perfect

Believer had prophecy. no need to seek after ceremonial wonders .

Hebrew 9:8-10 The Holy Ghost this signifying,(the language of parables) that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure (parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Ceremonial laws as shadows are not a law unto one own self (I did it it proves it)

When Aaron's two sons demonstrating the ceremonial law (shadow) .They took it upon thier own selves added their own personal touch called strange fire .They were consumed not a hint of smoke on the ceremonial attire .

Again ceremonial laws as shadows a sign to the unbelieving word . Believer has prophecy .

The shadows disappeared. Christians are given one new one (1 Corinthian 11 )to represent the gospel explosion,. The two high walls that separated the Jewish woman from the Jewish men (Jewish men's only club ) and the other wall that separated gentiles from Jews

Now men and women prophets from all the nations of the world could gather together. No more secret meeting

Again the gospel explosion one like never before or ever again .

 

[jeremiah1five]

Tabernacle or ceremonial law were shadows to the unbelieving. The shadows tcould not make those who performed them perfect

The work and sacrifice God made in the heavenly Tabernacle BEFORE He created heaven, earth and man was sufficient towards His elects' salvation before creating bodies for His elect in time. THAT sacrifice was all that was necessary to save His Chosen people. But because God could not reduplicate Himself in Himself, creation was made in time and bodies prepared for His elect as a body was prepared for the Redeemer in time to compliment His body being sacrificed in the heavenly tabernacle in Eternity. Two sides of the same coin.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev. 13:7–8.

And because His elect required bodies in the process of their redemption a lamb was slain on Calvary in time. So, in this respect all the types and shadows pointing to Christ is time first found their fulfillment in Eternity before creation.
Ya falla?

Believer had prophecy. no need to seek after ceremonial wonders .

The prophecies themselves were also type and shadow. What did you say about 'ceremonial law being shadow?'

Hebrew 9:8-10 The Holy Ghost this signifying,(the language of parables) that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure (parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

It couldn't make anyone 'perfect' without the Word and Ministry of the Holy Spirit on earth. That's why God's Hebrew saints were "kept" until Faith (Christ) should appear.

Ceremonial laws as shadows are not a law unto one own self (I did it it proves it)
When Aaron's two sons demonstrating the ceremonial law (shadow) .They took it upon thier own selves added their own personal touch called strange fire .They were consumed not a hint of smoke on the ceremonial attire .
Again ceremonial laws as shadows a sign to the unbelieving word . Believer has prophecy .

Jews seek after signs. Gentiles after knowledge. You have it backwards.

The shadows disappeared. Christians are given one new one (1 Corinthian 11 )to represent the gospel explosion,. The two high walls that separated the Jewish woman from the Jewish men (Jewish men's only club ) and the other wall that separated gentiles from Jews

Backwards again. The Law separated the Jews from the Gentiles. Remember, the Jew first.

Now men and women prophets from all the nations of the world could gather together. No more secret meeting

Yes, if they are from the world, they would be false prophets.
The ones from God have my vote.

Again the gospel explosion one like never before or ever again .

The gospel explosion took place beginning on Pentecost in which 3000 Jews were born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise (promised to Israel. God never promised the Holy Spirit to Gentiles.)

 

[Hobie]

Everything in the Tabernacle describes some aspect of Christ's life and work with regard to the salvation of His people. His people being identified clearly as those in Covenant with Him through the Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New Covenants. In short, the Hebrews/children of Jacob/Israel.
The earthly Tabernacle was patterned after the heavenly Tabernacle in which before God created heaven, earth, and man, He was actively involved in performing sacrifice in preparation of eventual creation of all things.

Christ makes no distinction as to what parts of the Law He came to fulfill so it must be taken to mean ALL aspects of the Law not just the Moral Laws. This includes the Ceremonial as well as the Social Laws. His life and work are described in the Tabernacle Laws.

Christ could not nor would not "do away" with the Tabernacle Laws since every aspect of the Laws describe every aspect of His life and work. That would be tantamount to deicide, if you will, self-murder. And if the Tabernacle Law describe the life and work of Christ and such Laws are eternal, then He cannot "do away" with them. Even in fulfilling them the Tabernacle Laws continue to exist and are useful to God.

There was the Law from Gods own finger that are the Ten Commandments and those do not change. Here, lets look at a comparison and see if there are two different laws or not:

Called "the law of Moses"
LUKE 2:22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord.
Called "the Law of the Lord"
ISA. 5:24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

Called "Law contained in ordinances"
EPH. 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.
Called "the Royal law"
JAMES 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Written by Moses in a book
2 CHRON. 35:12 And they removed the burnt offerings, that they might give according to the divisions of the families of the people, to offer unto the LORD, as it is written in the book of Moses. And so did they with the oxen.
Written by God on stone
EXO. 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
EXO. 32:16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables

Placed in the side of the ark
DEUT. 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
Placed inside the ark
EXO. 40:20 And he took and put the testimony into the ark, and set the staves on the ark, and put the mercy seat above upon the ark:

Ended at the cross
EPH. 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.
(there are no ordinances found in the 10 Commandments)
Will stand forever
LUKE 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
(has heaven and earth passed away yet?)

Added because of sin
GAL. 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
(and the seed did come to do away with Moses' law - Christ)
Points out sin
ROM. 7:7 What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
ROM. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(This is particularly significant because it shows that NO ONE IS SAVED by the law - that isn't it's purpose. It's purpose is to point out when we are sinning, that's all it does. And when we are found to be sinning then we go to Christ, repent, and Christ covers those sins with His blood - that's how the whole thing works.)

Contrary to us, against us
COL. 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.
Not grievous (i.e. - not against us)
1 JOHN 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Judges no man
COL. 2:14-16 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Judges all men
JAM. 2:10-12 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (simply means they are all equally serious) For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Carnal
HEB. 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Spiritual
ROM. 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Made nothing perfect
HEB. 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Is Perfect
PSALMS 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

So the question is did Jesus do away the Law He wrote with His own finger....
Matthew 5:17-19 - Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Now did the apostles understand this too...
Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 6:15 - What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Moses' sacrificial law was the temporary, ceremonial law of the Old Testament. It regulated the priesthood, sacrifices, rituals, meat and drink offerings, etc., all of which foreshadowed the cross. This law was added "till the seed should come," and that seed was Christ (Galatians 3:16, 19). The ritual and ceremony of Moses' law pointed forward to Christ's sacrifice. When He died, this law came to an end, but the Ten Commandments (God's law) "stand fast for ever and ever." Psalm 111:7,8.

God's law has existed at least as long as sin has existed. The Bible says, "Where no law is, there is no transgression [or sin]." Romans 4:15. So God's Ten Commandment law existed from the beginning. Men broke that law. "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4 Because of sin (or breaking God's law), Moses' law was given (or "added" Galatians 3:16, 19) till Christ should come and die. Two separate laws involved here: God's law and Moses' law. And since Jesus knew which law He was doing away with (as expressed in Matthew 5:17-19 - i.e. Moses' Law/the Old Covenant) the law He is talking about that lasts "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" is clearly the 10 Commandments.

 

[Mr GLee]

The prophecies themselves were also type and shadow. What did you say about 'ceremonial law being shadow?'

Yes prophecy, shadows that looks a head as well as back .

Ceremonials laws which were required but did not profit those who were used to display them . They as parables were given to the unbelieving world to draw them the the living word of God. Without parables Christ spoke not hiding the gospel understanding from the the world .

Parables called figure speech the signified understanding

The first century reformation the one from experience many ignore and focus on the 15th century as carbon copy of the first

Hebrews 9:8-11 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation

As ceremonial shadows they looked ahead to the three day and night demonstration of the father nd son working as one God

1 Peter 12: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. The garden Gethsemane where it began the bloody hill and the tomb the last demonstration of the two working as One

Jews seek after signs. Gentiles after knowledge. You have it backwards.

I don't think it a law limited to one or the other it does not mean the Jew does not seek after false knowledge

Both are sought after called a evil generation natural unconverted mankind Sign are false knowledge. Believers have prophecy .

Backwards again. The Law separated the Jews from the Gentiles. Remember, the Jew first.

Separated the unbelieving Jew from the unbelieving gentile ? Yes a inward Jew not according to the dying flesh of a outward Jew . In that way Abel is the first born again from the Spirit of Christ, if any man has not the Spirit of Christ than neither does he belong to Christ

The gospel explosion took place beginning on Pentecost in which 3000 Jews were born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise (promised to Israel. God never promised the Holy Spirit to Gentiles.)

Still trying to make it about the outward flesh of a Jew as a DNA qualifier ? Only born again Christian Jews. . Inward according to the Spirit of Christ .


God is not a Jewish man. He is not served by dying hinman hands as a will of a nation. Black, White, Brown ,Red ,Yellow

Two witnesses

Revelation 2:9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

v
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[Soyeong]

There was the Law from Gods own finger that are the Ten Commandments and those do not change. Here, lets look at a comparison and see if there are two different laws or not:

In Psalms 119:160, all of God's laws are eternal, not just ten of them. All of God's laws have the same morality authority regardless of whether God wrote them or whether He spoke them to Moses to write down (Deuteronomy 5:31-33).

Called "the law of Moses"
LUKE 2:22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord.

The Law of Moses is referred to as the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23, so the very verse that you cited to try to make a distinction actually completely undermines the post that you copied this nonsense from.

Called "Law contained in ordinances"
EPH. 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.
Called "the Royal law"
JAMES 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

In Psalms 19:7, the Law of Moses is perfect, in Psalms 119:45, it is a law of liberty, and in Psalms 119:1-3, it blesses those who obey it, so when James 1:25-27 speaks about the perfect law of liberty that blesses those who obey it, he wasn't saying anything about the Law of Moses that wasn't already said in the Psalms. Furthermore, in James 2:1-8, the commands to love our neighbor as ourselves and against favoritism are not listed as part of the Ten Commandments, but are part of the Law of Moses, so again the verses that you are citing to support your argument actually completely undermine it.

Ended at the cross
EPH. 2:15

In regard to Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14, the Bible refers to something other than the Law of Moses every other time that it used the Greek word "dogma", so justification needs to be given for why those verses should be interpreted as referring to the Law of Moses, especially in light of the fact that all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160).

Added because of sin
Points out sin
ROM. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(This is particularly significant because it shows that NO ONE IS SAVED by the law - that isn't it's purpose. It's purpose is to point out when we are sinning, that's all it does. And when we are found to be sinning then we go to Christ, repent, and Christ covers those sins with His blood - that's how the whole thing works.)

Indeed, the Law of Moses was added because of sin in order to point out sin. While we do not earn our salvation as the result of having first obeyed the Law of Moses, living in obedience to it is nevertheless intrinsically part of the content of what the gift of salvation is. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God gracious teaching us to do those works is part of the content of what His gift of salvation is. Furthermore, in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of Moses is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).

Contrary to us, against us
COL. 2:14
Not grievous (i.e. - not against us)
1 JOHN 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Again, justification needs to be given for why Colossians 2:14 should be interpreted as referring to the Law of Moses, which is contrary to us, but rather it was given for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13). What is contrary to us is the list of sins that we have committed, which fits perfectly with the concept with the list of our sins being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with nailing any laws to the cross. Moreover, 1 John 5:3 is saying that the Law of Moses is not difficult for us to obey, so it is not even comparing the same thing.

Judges no man
COL. 2:14-16
Judges all men
JAM. 2:10-12 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (simply means they are all equally serious) For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Again, that is a misuse of Colossians 2:!4-16 and Law of Moses is the law of liberty (Psalms 119:45).

Carnal
HEB. 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Spiritual
ROM. 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Commands in regard to having an earthly lineage is not the same concept as having a carnal nature.

Made nothing perfect
HEB. 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Is Perfect
PSALMS 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

In Psalms 19:7, it used the Hebrew word "Torah", which refers to the Law of Moses, so it is both perfect and makes nothing perfect.

So the question is did Jesus do away the Law He wrote with His own finger....
Matthew 5:17-19 - Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:

The phrase "Law and the Prophets" straightforwardly refers to everything in the Law and the Prophets, not to just ten of its commandments, so Jesus did not abolish the least part of the Mosaic Law.

Romans 6:15 - What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

In Psalms 119:29, he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Law of Moses, so that is what it means to be under grace and what we should not sin in transgression of because we are under grace.

Moses' sacrificial law was the temporary, ceremonial law of the Old Testament. It regulated the priesthood, sacrifices, rituals, meat and drink offerings, etc., all of which foreshadowed the cross. This law was added "till the seed should come," and that seed was Christ (Galatians 3:16, 19).

All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so none of them are temporary. In 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul spoke in regard to how Passover foreshadowed Christ by drawing the connection of him being our Passover Lamb, however, instead of concluding that we should no longer bother observing Passover because it was temporary, he concluded that we should therefore continue to observe it. Christ did not go around with the message to stop repenting because the Mosaic Law has ended, but just the opposite, he spread the Gospel calling for people to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand. In Galatians 3:16-19, a new covenant does not nullify the promise of a covenant that has already been ratified, so the New Covenant does not abolish our need to obey the Mosaic Law, but rather it still involves following it (Jeremiah 31:33).

God's law has existed at least as long as sin has existed. The Bible says, "Where no law is, there is no transgression [or sin]." Romans 4:15. So God's Ten Commandment law existed from the beginning. Men broke that law. "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4 Because of sin (or breaking God's law), Moses' law was given (or "added" Galatians 3:16, 19) till Christ should come and die. Two separate laws involved here: God's law and Moses' law. And since Jesus knew which law He was doing away with (as expressed in Matthew 5:17-19 - i.e. Moses' Law/the Old Covenant) the law He is talking about that lasts "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" is clearly the 10 Commandments.

God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore all of His instructions for how to testify about His righteousness are also eternal (Psalms 119:160). Sin existed before the Mosaic Law was given because people could act in a way that was contrary to God's eternal nature before they had been given instructions to refrain from doing that. In 1 John 3:10, it doesn't specify that sin is only the transgression of ten of God's laws, but that it is the transgression of any of God's laws. Rape, kidnapping, favoritism, and so forth are all just as must a sin as transgressing the Ten Commandments.