Total Depravity. Was it a misnomer?

[GeneZ]

So if it was available to them that reject Him, what makes it a reality for them ?

​

"Taste and see that the Lord is good;​

blessed is the one who takes refuge in him." psalm 34:8​

​

So you may ask?

After He is a reality to them?

................... Why can't all believers agree with what they believe?

 

[brightfame52]

​

"Taste and see that the Lord is good;​

blessed is the one who takes refuge in him." psalm 34:8​

​

So you may ask?

After He is a reality to them?

................... Why can't all believers agree with what they believe?

So then you admit that its not what Christ did that makes salvation a reality ! Its what the sinner does, correct ?

 

[GeneZ]

So then you admit that its not what Christ did that makes salvation a reality ! Its what the sinner does, correct ?

I am becoming convinced that you have a serious comprehension problem.

One that makes one wonder if they should continue to try to correct you.

For if he tries to correct you?

You will continue as you misconstrue the answer when given...

Have nice day...
Have two.
I hear they are on sale....

bye...

God bless the Ignore Function!

 

[GeneZ]

Christ had made salvation a reality before all of us were born.

What requires 'faith' tells us salvation awaits all who want it.

You will only be able to experience that reality if we do as he desires of us concerning that reality.

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” ​

​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” ​

​

John 6:28-29​

​

​

Note.. Jesus did not say.. “The works of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Work is in the singular. Meaning a single action, not a religious system.

In contrast to a single 'work.' ..
The system of 'works' that religious fools sought after required potentially a never ending list of things one must do.

We are not saved by works (plural).

 

[Ladodgers6]

While being drawn God's grace forces the sin nature (flesh) into silence and powerlessness, and allows the soul to believe. Or, not to believe.
The soul must still do the believing.

Problem with Calvinism, they think the sin nature resides in the soul. Paul clearly states that the domain of the sin nature resides in the flesh, not the soul.

Romans 7:17-18​

​

But now, it is no longer I (his soul) who do it, but sin that dwells in me. ​

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to ​

will is present with me (soul), but how to perform what is good I do not find. ​

The flesh is like a dominating bully Siamese twin we are born with.
Our soul wants to live for Christ, but the bully refuses to allow it.
God's provision to free up our soul to live for Him is His power of Grace.
The power that keeps our flesh locked up by the filing of the Spirit who indwells us.
We must keep ourselves walking in the Spirit by wholeheartedly standing upon 1 John 1:9!

Romans 8:5-8​

​

Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; ​

but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit ​

desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is ​

life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to ​

God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God."​

​

Note!@

..... but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. "

Its the flesh that is depraved. The soul is a victim of the flesh as long as that soul refuses to accept 1 John 1:9 as to maintain walking in the Spirit!.

1 John 1:9 ​

​

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive ​

us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."​

It could also read....

​

"If we name/acknowledge/cite our sins, he is faithful and just ​

and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.'​

God does not want to make it hard for us to understand.

Theologians on the other hand, at times have caused problems as they try to sort out what the truth is.

grace and peace ...................

I get all of this. The piece you are missing though, what is the cause for a sinner deliverance? In other words something must cause the sinner to come to Faith, yes? What is it? How does God's Grace force sinners into silence? And GeneZ you have a dilemma, either God's Grace is necessary for a sinner to come to an understanding of the truth or it doesn't. If it does illuminate the heart and mind of the sinner how this is not the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit that brings knowledge of God into our hearts and minds to understand and believe? How is this not by Grace Alone that works in our hearts and minds to come to faith? Follow?​

 

[GeneZ]

I get all of this. The piece you are missing though, what is the cause for a sinner deliverance? In other words something must cause the sinner to come to Faith, yes? What is it? How does God's Grace force sinners into silence? And GeneZ you have a dilemma, either God's Grace is necessary for a sinner to come to an understanding of the truth or it doesn't. If it does illuminate the heart and mind of the sinner how this is not the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit that brings knowledge of God into our hearts and minds to understand and believe? How is this not by Grace Alone that works in our hearts and minds to come to faith? Follow?​

I get a distinct sense that you have been indoctrinated into believing what you do, and you will not expound with scripture on why what you say must be the way.

You leave me with nothing. Nothing to change my thinking with. Its just a reflection of your indoctrination like you are taking an exam at some seminary that expects you to say what you were told.

The men mentioned in Romans 1:18-23 were definitely not regenerated, but the Spirit caused them to know God is real... which they reject and suppress through replacing the truth with lies.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the ​

godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their ​

wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, ​

because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world ​

God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been ​

clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people ​

are without excuse. ​

​

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave ​

thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts ​

were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and ​

exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a ​

mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles."​

​

I get the feeling you won't deal with that correctly, and will quickly push it aside with some
surface remark. And, then.. move right back to the narrative your indoctrination wants
men to believe.

Fine!

Someone else here may see through it all and get what is needed.

 

[GeneZ]

I get all of this. The piece you are missing though, what is the cause for a sinner deliverance?​

Stop arguing over that and start doing what is needed once you are saved.. Needed to do no matter how getting saved was done!

You are arguing a side issue. We are saved! No?

Well start learning what God wants of a regenerate person to do so he can grow and mature spiritually and not remain stuck clinging to his spiritual umbilical cord and that's all he thinks about.

So what! We are both regenerate! Drop the placenta and start walking in faith to GROW UP in Christ!

It seems its all you Calvinists are obsessed about... "How we got regeneration." While there are a million other truths God wants us to learn from.

Its seems your pet doctrine helps in resistance from learning what God requires. But, not until you first can straighten out all those who understand that God's grace is what frees up the soul to think outside of the depravity that enslaves when God's grace is absent.

 

[Marilyn C]

The gospel was not preached before Pentecost.

Christ's close circle could have been a new creation at his resurrection.

Pentecost was not the new birth, but a special empowering of the apsotles by the Holy Spirit to take the gospel to mankind.

The apostles already had the Holy Spirit (Jn 20:22-23).

The gospel, the good news of God was cetainly known by Abel but not the full revelation. That revelation of God`s good news to man was only revealed over time.

 

[Ladodgers6]

I get a distinct sense that you have been indoctrinated into believing what you do, and you will not expound with scripture on why what you say must be the way.

Awe, thank you! I am still learning but I think I am well versed to share and defend my position in the Doctrines of Grace. I used to hold to a Free-Will and universalistic world view. But GeneZ sorry to be the party pooper, this is no novelty. Pelagianism and Semi-Pelagianism taught these very concepts before you. Piece of advice, do your due diligence and research these debates from all sides and challenge everything against Scripture and you'll see the facts presented by whom.

I am indoctrinated and wear it as a badge of honor for Paul himself instructs believers to grow in the knowledge of Lord, so that we are not deceived. The irony here GeneZ and I am not going to let you off the hook. You eluded to" God drawing sinners by silencing and forcing...". How so, I asked, and you reply with nothing, why? If you believe what you believe, then you would be able to answer this question. There's no need to divert and hide.​

You leave me with nothing. Nothing to change my thinking with. Its just a reflection of your indoctrination like you are taking an exam at some seminary that expects you to say what you were told.

Okay? Asked you questions, and I get no reply to my questions. Just baseless accusations like always. I will admit one thing, when I was an Arminian I didn't run away from the tough questions. I wanted the truth, I didn't care about being wrong, that was of no importance to me, the truth is. You say these comments to me because you know they present a dilemma for you. Something must happen before we can do anything. You just refuse to knowledge the obvious and the Biblical truth that sinners are dead in sin, and are already condemned convicts on death-row awaiting the state of execution. But this analogy is candy coated, because sinners are rebellious, hostile, enemies of God and pursue what they desire and love to do which is to sin; they are in bondage!
​

John 5:21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.

Romans 6:6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

John 8:47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

This verse Gene is what Christ said to the physical descendants of Abraham who were trying to kill him.

John 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

2 Cor. 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

I have lots more, but for now if you wouldn't mind addresses these passages.

By Grace Alone in Christ Alone!

 

[Ladodgers6]

Stop arguing over that and start doing what is needed once you are saved..

Why won't you explain what you posted about God silencing and forcing? What did you mean by this?

Needed to do no matter how getting saved was done!

This is point is pertinent, because Grace is not earned or merited by any sinner, it's given freely in the proclamation of the Gospel. Understanding the sinner's plight before a Holy God is Law preaching, exposing our sinful state and the separation due to sin and the Fall from God. Sinners are dead in sin and trespasses, utterly lost and hopeless.

But the Gospel Promise is FREE, it is given without demanding anything from us! This is how amazing God's Grace & Mercy really is. Paul said that God's Grace is rich and deeper than any ocean. It's God himself who descended into history and time to save the ungodly, Gene. He was born in the likeness of sinful flesh, born under the Law, lived a life of perfect obedience to fulfill the Law for us, and became a curse for us, as he takes our place on the Cross, so that his righteousness is imputed to those who believe in him who justifies the ungodly!

The Freer the Gospel is, the better it is!​

You are arguing a side issue. We are saved! No?

Well start learning what God wants of a regenerate person to do so he can grow and mature spiritually and not remain stuck clinging to his spiritual umbilical cord and that's all he thinks about.

So what! We are both regenerate! Drop the placenta and start walking in faith to GROW UP in Christ!

It seems its all you Calvinists are obsessed about... "How we got regeneration." While there are a million other truths God wants us to learn from.

Its seems your pet doctrine helps in resistance from learning what God requires. But, not until you first can straighten out all those who understand that God's grace is what frees up the soul to think outside of the depravity that enslaves when God's grace is absent.

It seems to me you deny that Scripture teaches about regeneration? Look again, and if the truth is what you seek, then do so, honestly, without bias lenses on. Having a weak view of sin, leads to a weak view of God and his Grace!

Before I leave will you explain why you wrote that God's silences and forces sin...? These are your words not mine.​

 

[ReverendRV]

Yep DTS.

Yay; Civic is back

 

[civic]

Yay; Civic is back

lol

 

[GeneZ]

Awe, thank you! I am still learning but I think I am well versed to share and defend my position in the Doctrines of Grace. I used to hold to a Free-Will and universalistic world view. But GeneZ sorry to be the party pooper, this is no novelty. Pelagianism and Semi-Pelagianism taught these very concepts before you. Piece of advice, do your due diligence and research these debates from all sides and challenge everything against Scripture and you'll see the facts presented by whom.​

In other words?

You experiment with theological ideas.

Try this one for a while.. and then try that.

As of yet.. You do not know what to believe.

Looks like you come here to present your latest answers for a written test.
And .. to test it here.

So you simply say it as if you believe it?
But, do not know what to believe.

You have yet to find a competent good teacher.

If you do?
You've been blessed.

And, no teacher, no matter how good, is 100% perfect.
So you'll still have to do your own thinking before God.

grace and peace ............

 

[GeneZ]

John 8:47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

Do you know what sophomore means?
Its Greek.
It means - "wise fool." We sometimes today say .. "a wise ass."

Its a stage growing Christians can go through.

Baby Christians are the easiest to reach.
God bless the babies who have been entrusted to good teachers.

John 21:14-18 reveals different levels of Christian maturity.
When Jesus said, "feed my lambs," he spoke of the baby Christians.

grace and peace ..............

 

[Ladodgers6]

In other words?

You experiment with theological ideas.

Try this one for a while.. and then try that.

As of yet.. You do not know what to believe.

Looks like you come here to present your latest answers for a written test.
And .. to test it here.

So you simply say it as if you believe it?
But, do not know what to believe.

You have yet to find a competent good teacher.

If you do?
You've been blessed.

And, no teacher, no matter how good, is 100% perfect.
So you'll still have to do your own thinking before God.

grace and peace ............

All of this and still no answer to my questions. My teacher for the record is God's word, not a man-made heresy of dispensationalism, free-will, universalism taught by Pelagianism. This heresy has been condemned by more churches throughout history! Having a lofty view of man, which glories man, and where man can boast before all men including before God.​

 

[Ladodgers6]

Do you know what sophomore means?
Its Greek.
It means - "wise fool." We sometimes today say .. "a wise ass."

Its a stage growing Christians can go through.

Baby Christians are the easiest to reach.
God bless the babies who have been entrusted to good teachers.

John 21:14-18 reveals different levels of Christian maturity.
When Jesus said, "feed my lambs," he spoke of the baby Christians.

grace and peace ..............

LoL, nothing left to rely on, so start the insults, right? Nothing new. I see you avoided the passages that you requested like the plague. Gene either debate the topics or I'll bid you a farewell.

 

[GeneZ]

Why won't you explain what you posted about God silencing and forcing? What did you mean by this?

The unregenerate person is physically born having his soul by default being a slave to his master "the flesh."

Paul said (after regeneration) that when he wished to do good (his soul) .. his flesh was always opposing his soul and not allowing him to do the good his soul desired. Romans 7:20-21

Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. ​

So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. ​

Note: Paul differentiates between himself (his soul) - and his flesh (the sin nature). He does not see his flesh as being who he really is!

Romans 7:20-21 is the conflict that all Christians must face if we are ever to grow up to find the needed Bible doctrines to walk in the Spirit to overcome. Paul himself was speaking retroactively illustrating with his spiritual growing pains.

Now what does that tell us? The flesh opposes even the soul that is saved. A soul that desires God.

Paul was receiving grace to endure what he faced in Romans 7:20-21 to eventually learn to keep walking in grace and truth to overcome the flesh - to eventually enter into God's peace of having a capacity for life in Christ and inner peace.

But? Unlike Paul? For the unbeliever?

He is ignorant of God and oppressed by his flesh. He has no hope of being anything different. He does not yet know God is real like Paul.

In that case? There is only one way out for the unregenerate soul to be saved.

Its war!

God sends in his overpowering liberating army of Grace that routes and crushes the enemy. Crushes the flesh's tyrannical control over its citizens - our soul.

While God's power makes the enemy power helpless to oppress the soul? Some people will like being made free. They may think they are fantasizing and enjoying it. While another under the same grace will hate it ,because under the old system of oppression he used to exploit the people around him.

So.. Both souls were experienced the liberating effect of God's overpowering drawing grace. But, each had a different reaction to the new found freedom.

God may draw some people long before the Gospel may be given. They do not know where its coming from, but they receive thoughts that enter their minds that are based upon the thinking of God. While those thoughts are being given God's grace forces down their flesh during those moments which allows for the soul to contemplate and think it over.

​

“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. “No one can come to me unless ​

the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. It is written ​

in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father ​

and learned from him comes to me." John 6:43-45​

Those who accept the thoughts during God's drawing that the Father gives (while overpowering grace is making their souls able to see). And, they choose to learn from what they were shown? They will at the right time be handed over by the Father to Christ, to whom they will come to without hesitation.

After regeneration takes place? Then the Christian is commanded to form his own civilian army by means of grace and learning the Bible from teachers He has assigned to keep the soul liberated from the flesh and the devil. Once a soul is saved/ regenerated, God withdraws his application of his overpowering commanding army of pre-salvation grace.

From then on the grace we are to enjoy is to be determined by how we choose for or against growing in the grace and knowledge of God's Word. The once overpowering liberating grace army of God goes back home and leaves the liberated soul to learn to fight for his own freedom. The believer is now to do so by training for spiritual warfare. To be accomplished by means of God supplying us grace and truth that God provides.

He wants us to seek and become strong in knowledge of God's Word. For truth is to be for our soul's national defense.

Well?

That's what came to mind!...

grace and peace ..........................

 

[GeneZ]

All of this and still no answer to my questions. My teacher for the record is God's word, not a man-made heresy of dispensationalism, free-will, universalism taught by Pelagianism. This heresy has been condemned by more churches throughout history! Having a lofty view of man, which glories man, and where man can boast before all men including before God.​

You are full of head knowledge.

You are still treating Christianity as if it were an academic subject.

 

[GeneZ]

LoL, nothing left to rely on, so start the insults, right? Nothing new. I see you avoided the passages that you requested like the plague. Gene either debate the topics or I'll bid you a farewell.

Sometimes truth is seen as an insult.

It all depends upon who is willing to fight the good fight.

And, who the pacifists are.

 

[brightfame52]

I am becoming convinced that you have a serious comprehension problem.

One that makes one wonder if they should continue to try to correct you.

For if he tries to correct you?

You will continue as you misconstrue the answer when given...

Have nice day...
Have two.
I hear they are on sale....

bye...

God bless the Ignore Function!

I comprehended you said this:

He is the Savior of even those who will reject his "offer." Its available to all.