Total Depravity. Was it a misnomer?

[Ladodgers6]

Of course it is... as we well know.....we have the truth in our hearts/ Spirit.

So, my question is, why aren’t others seeing the truth?

Excellent question, finally people asking the right questions. Here is Scripture that answers this.

John 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.


John 8:47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

 

[Ladodgers6]

Ok, will do..

I have the commentaries in my library. i'll post it later today.

 

[Ladodgers6]

Ok, will do..

Rita, great job, keep studying the Scriptures, this is how we grow in the knowledge of the Lord.

God makes it a reality...only it’s a supernatural reality.....not by human effort or by their own will...by God’s will are we Born Again...imo/ belief.

This is Biblical teaching, and only his people whom he gave to Christ to save will hear his voice and follow him. To others the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.

 

[Ritajanice]

Rita, great job, keep studying the Scriptures, this is how we grow in the knowledge of the Lord.

This is Biblical teaching, and only his people whom he gave to Christ to save will hear his voice and follow him. To others the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.

I will Brother...I need to grow more in the knowledge of the Lord.

Amen to your post.

 

[GeneZ]

You said Christ only made Salvation available, no scripture teaches that, thats a false gospel message

Well then? What did he do?
Does he force it upon those who believe?
Or, do they believe because he forced it upon them?

If he does force it upon those who believe?
That means he knew they would believe if not depraved.
Either way, its determined by what the believer would choose if free to.

 

[Ritajanice]

@brightfame52 ..he is not understanding what it means to be birthed in the Spirit....maybe he will later down the line,I dunno...

He thinks God forces it upon us..he doesn’t understand it’s a “ supernatural “ act that only God can do. as his word says below.

John 3:6​

“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

John 3:8​

​

King James Version​

​

​

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[brightfame52]

Well then? What did he do?
Does he force it upon those who believe?
Or, do they believe because he forced it upon them?

If he does force it upon those who believe?
That means he knew they would believe if not depraved.
Either way, its determined by what the believer would choose if free to.

You teach Christ is a possible Saviour. Thats unbiblical. If Christ merely makes Salvation availalbe or possible, then who or what makes Salvation a reality ?

 

[GeneZ]

Precisely! See, what people do not want to believe, is that it's all by God's Grace, Mercy, and Will.

While being drawn God's grace forces the sin nature (flesh) into silence and powerlessness, and allows the soul to believe. Or, not to believe.
The soul must still do the believing.

Problem with Calvinism, they think the sin nature resides in the soul. Paul clearly states that the domain of the sin nature resides in the flesh, not the soul.

Romans 7:17-18​

​

But now, it is no longer I (his soul) who do it, but sin that dwells in me. ​

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to ​

will is present with me (soul), but how to perform what is good I do not find. ​

The flesh is like a dominating bully Siamese twin we are born with.
Our soul wants to live for Christ, but the bully refuses to allow it.
God's provision to free up our soul to live for Him is His power of Grace.
The power that keeps our flesh locked up by the filing of the Spirit who indwells us.
We must keep ourselves walking in the Spirit by wholeheartedly standing upon 1 John 1:9!

Romans 8:5-8​

​

Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; ​

but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit ​

desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is ​

life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to ​

God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God."​

​

Note!@

..... but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. "

Its the flesh that is depraved. The soul is a victim of the flesh as long as that soul refuses to accept 1 John 1:9 as to maintain walking in the Spirit!.

1 John 1:9 ​

​

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive ​

us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."​

It could also read....

​

"If we name/acknowledge/cite our sins, he is faithful and just ​

and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.'​

God does not want to make it hard for us to understand.

Theologians on the other hand, at times have caused problems as they try to sort out what the truth is.

grace and peace ...................

 

[GeneZ]

You teach Christ is a possible Saviour. Thats unbiblical. If Christ merely makes Salvation availalbe or possible, then who or what makes Salvation a reality ?

Have you been trying to frame me by gaslighting me?
I never said Jesus is a possible savior.


Now, stop. Give your position!

What is your position? Make sense of it.

Stop hiding behind trees taking pot shots.

Come out and stand before me like a man!

What is your position? Make sense of it!

Until you can? You make no sense in how you keep distorting the things I have said.

 

[GeneZ]

You teach Christ is a possible Saviour. Thats unbiblical. If Christ merely makes Salvation availalbe or possible, then who or what makes Salvation a reality ?

Christ has made salvation a reality.

Is he to offer nothing?

 

[Ritajanice]

Excellent question, finally people asking the right questions. Here is Scripture that answers this.

John 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.


John 8:47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

Excellent scripture....Amen!!

 

[Arial]

While being drawn God's grace forces the sin nature (flesh) into silence and powerlessness, and allows the soul to believe. Or, not to believe.
The soul must still do the believing.

That is a new one to me. Where in scripture do we see such a thing? But I wonder why you think it is awful for God to "force" people to believe (which you say Calvinism teaches and it does not) but it is ok in your theory for His grace to force our flesh into silence and powerlessness?

And it is the mind and heart with which one believes. John 3:16.

Problem with Calvinism, they think the sin nature resides in the soul. Paul clearly states that the domain of the sin nature resides in the flesh, not the soul.

Where do you get the idea that Calvinism says sin resides in the soul? It says to sin is in our nature since the fall. Just as surely as it is in the nature of a cat to meow. Sin is in us and we are a union of being, a total being. Our soul is no more separate from us than is our body.

 

[brightfame52]

Have you been trying to frame me by gaslighting me?
I never said Jesus is a possible savior.


Now, stop. Give your position!

What is your position? Make sense of it.

Stop hiding behind trees taking pot shots.

Come out and stand before me like a man!

What is your position? Make sense of it!

Until you can? You make no sense in how you keep distorting the things I have said.

You the one said Christ only made Salvation available. So who makes it a reality ?

 

[brightfame52]

Christ has made salvation a reality.

Is he to offer nothing?

Which is it, did Christ make salvation available or a reality ?

Here is what you posted earlier

He is the Savior of even those who will reject his "offer." Its available to all.

 

[GeneZ]

You the one said Christ only made Salvation available. So who makes it a reality ?

It is available. Why do you think He sends out evangelists? To make it known.

Why are you having a hard time with this?
What doctrine do you believe that contradicts what I have been saying????

Predestination has got to do with where we land after being saved. Land in the Church? Or, another kind of believer from a different dispensation.

We were chosen IN HIM. Not to believe. But chosen for what we were to become when we believe. He chose us because He knows we would want to believe. For example. He did not choose Moses to be in Him before the foundation of the world. For Moses? Was not destined to become the Bride of Christ.

We were chosen in Him, just as Eve was IN ADAM. In Adam before she was revealed with the same kind of body as Adam's!

Likewise! We shall have a body just like our Lord's! For the Church alone is the Bride of Christ!

The Church was chosen in Him. Same body when the glorious Church is revealed in the Resurrection!

We will be ..."Bone of his bones, and flesh of his glorious body!"

In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies.
He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body,
but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— for we
are members of his body. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother
and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”

This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church."

Ephesians 5:28-32

.....................

 

[GeneZ]

Which is it, did Christ make salvation available or a reality ?

Here is what you posted earlier

Okay?

Yes! .... It was even available for those who will reject Him!

WHY? Because He died for their sins also!

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only
for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

1 John 2:2​

Does that not tell you that there is no one who can not be saved?

Its up to them to decide.

There is good reason why it says they are to be without excuse.
If God has to force us to be saved?
Unbelievers would be able to blame God for their failure to believe!

God has to force down the flesh to allow ones soul to think and choose to believe!

Grace is God's power that forces down the flesh when God presents us with having to make a choice.

That is why we need to be saved "by grace."

Without grace our souls could never believe!
While under God's sovereign implementation of Grace?
God hands our soul the Word of God (faith) as the means to reveal we have chosen to believe.

But, without the power of God's grace?
No soul would be free to believe.
For the flesh would have overruled and dictated that the soul can not hear.
For the flesh (that God's grace needs to control) would have disallowed that soul to believe.

Are you getting it?


grace and peace .................

 

[Josheb]

Man since the fall of Adam has been depraved. Meaning...
Man took on a fallen nature that dominates over his thinking.

No! That is not the meaning of Total Depravity.

The doctrine of Total Depravity is very specific and very limited. That doctrine simply states the effects of sin are so substantive that sin prevents a person from coming to God in his or her own might specifically for salvation.

• It does NOT mean man is wholly depraved.
• It does NOT mean sinners can and will only sin.
• It does NOT mean sinners cannot have a moral thought or commit a moral act.

Yes, sinners have been changed but that is Not what specifically Total Depravity is specifically about.

 

[brightfame52]

It is available. Why do you think He sends out evangelists? To make it known.

Why are you having a hard time with this?
What doctrine do you believe that contradicts what I have been saying????

Predestination has got to do with where we land after being saved. Land in the Church? Or, another kind of believer from a different dispensation.

We were chosen IN HIM. Not to believe. But chosen for what we were to become when we believe. He chose us because He knows we would want to believe. For example. He did not choose Moses to be in Him before the foundation of the world. For Moses? Was not destined to become the Bride of Christ.

We were chosen in Him, just as Eve was IN ADAM. In Adam before she was revealed with the same kind of body as Adam's!

Likewise! We shall have a body just like our Lord's! For the Church alone is the Bride of Christ!

The Church was chosen in Him. Same body when the glorious Church is revealed in the Resurrection!

We will be ..."Bone of his bones, and flesh of his glorious body!"

In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies.
He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body,
but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— for we
are members of his body. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother
and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”

This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church."

Ephesians 5:28-32

.....................

So if Christ just made salvation available/possible, what makes Salvation a reality ?

 

[brightfame52]

Okay?

Yes! .... It was even available for those who will reject Him!

WHY? Because He died for their sins also!

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only
for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

1 John 2:2​

Does that not tell you that there is no one who can not be saved?

Its up to them to decide.

There is good reason why it says they are to be without excuse.
If God has to force us to be saved?
Unbelievers would be able to blame God for their failure to believe!

God has to force down the flesh to allow ones soul to think and choose to believe!

Grace is God's power that forces down the flesh when God presents us with having to make a choice.

That is why we need to be saved "by grace."

Without grace our souls could never believe!
While under God's sovereign implementation of Grace?
God hands our soul the Word of God (faith) as the means to reveal we have chosen to believe.

But, without the power of God's grace?
No soul would be free to believe.
For the flesh would have overruled and dictated that the soul can not hear.
For the flesh (that God's grace needs to control) would have disallowed that soul to believe.

Are you getting it?


grace and peace .................

So if it was available to them that reject Him, what makes it a reality for them ?

 

[GeneZ]

No! That is not the meaning of Total Depravity.

The doctrine of Total Depravity is very specific and very limited. That doctrine simply states the effects of sin are so substantive that sin prevents a person from coming to God in his or her own might specifically for salvation.

• It does NOT mean man is wholly depraved.
• It does NOT mean sinners can and will only sin.
• It does NOT mean sinners cannot have a moral thought or commit a moral act.

Yes, sinners have been changed but that is Not what specifically Total Depravity is specifically about.

According to your specific indoctrination that is what it is.

According to the Bible.... I gave a synopsis as follows.

Man since the fall of Adam has been depraved. Meaning...​

Man took on a fallen nature that dominates over his thinking.​

Now.. onto your triggered response..

• It does NOT mean man is wholly depraved.
• It does NOT mean sinners can and will only sin.
• It does NOT mean sinners cannot have a moral thought or commit a moral act.

Your being mad because I somehow said all those things in my very short statement?

I simply said?

"Man took on a fallen nature that dominates over his thinking." ​

Why you went into your rant is beyond me.

For the fallen nature is involved with knowing good and evil. Not just sin.
What I said does not mean he will only sin.

For there is a type of fallen man who takes pride in doing lot's of human good.
But? His righteousness is as dirty rags in God's sight, and can not save him.