Total Depravity. Was it a misnomer?

[Ladodgers6]

I am for Luther because of his approach to expounding Scripture. Same goes for Calvin..

The approach was a correct one. But, not always their conclusions.

Those who come after have been given the responsibility of correcting what needs to be, and to keep what was good.

Luther had the right approach ...and he had the guts to face down the tyrant who wanted to suppress truth.

What's your position, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Ladodgers6]

I am for Luther because of his approach to expounding Scripture. Same goes for Calvin..

The approach was a correct one. But, not always their conclusions.

Those who come after have been given the responsibility of correcting what needs to be, and to keep what was good.

Luther had the right approach ...and he had the guts to face down the tyrant who wanted to suppress truth.

Note that all the Reformers were in total agreement and stand together on Justification by Faith Alone!

 

[GeneZ]

What's your position, if you don't mind me asking?

This is my position.....

https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3

 

[GeneZ]

Note that all the Reformers were in total agreement and stand together on Justification by Faith Alone!

Who has a problem with that here?

 

[Ladodgers6]

This is my position.....

https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3

Dispensationalism?

 

[Ladodgers6]

Who has a problem with that here?

Never said you have a problem with that. I am providing a fact of the Reformation, that's all.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

You are confessing that God is the author of sin by creating Adam sinful.

Being able to sin (tempted) is not the same thing as having a nature that will make us to sin.

SO WHY (before Adam "Changed") did he fall into SIN?? You claim he DIDN'T have a "Sin nature", so why did he follow the James 1 "temptation sequence" just like we all do?? Adam wasn't created "Sinful", he was created HUMAN just like you, and the only thing that CHANGED was that he "Died Spiritually" just like YOU, and I DID when we sinned the first time.

 

[Ritajanice]

SO WHY (before Adam "Changed") did he fall into SIN?? You claim he DIDN'T have a "Sin nature", so why did he follow the James 1 "temptation sequence" just like we all do?? Adam wasn't created "Sinful", he was created HUMAN just like you, and the only thing that CHANGED was that he "Died Spiritually" just like YOU, and I DID when we sinned the first time.

Hi Bob..just a few questions,if that’s ok?

when we sinned the first time?

What about those who have never read a bible Bob, how would they understand spiritually that they were or are in sin?

As God says....please address scripture?...thanks.

1 Corinthians 2:14

King James Version

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14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Romans 3:10-18​

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King James Version​

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10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

 

[Ladodgers6]

Its for free if you wish to order a copy...
https://www.rbthieme.org/Publications/thedivineoutlineofhistory.html

I do not believe in dispensationalism

 

[brightfame52]

This is my position.....

https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3

The writer believes that Jesus Christ death merely made salvation available to everyone ? Is that your position ?

 

[GeneZ]

I do not believe in dispensationalism

So what?

You don't believe in it? Who cares!

I know what I believe. And, I know you identify with a group.

Stay there...

We live in human dispensations, let alone God's unfolding of Himself to man.

 

[GeneZ]

The writer believes that Jesus Christ death merely made salvation available to everyone ? Is that your position ?

He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and
not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

1 John 2:2​

I am sure you can read what that says..

Maybe you are reading it for the first time?

If Jesus died for the sins of the whole world? What does that mean?

Why are you confused?

Does that mean all men will believe? No. It does not say that.
But, it means we can not know who will end up believing.


The Bible does not contradict itself.

Only the errors of men contradict the Bible when they come up with wrong conclusions.

He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and
not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."​

grace and peace ..........

 

[brightfame52]

He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and
not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

1 John 2:2​

I am sure you can read what that says..

Maybe you are reading it for the first time?

If Jesus died for the sins of the whole world? What does that mean?

Why are you confused?

Does that mean all men will believe? No. It does not say that.
But, it means we can not know who will end up believing.


The Bible does not contradict itself.

Only the errors of men contradict the Bible when they come up with wrong conclusions.

He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and
not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."​

grace and peace ..........

So do you believe that Jesus Christ only made Salvation available ? Yes or No ?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Hi Bob..just a few questions,if that’s ok?

when we sinned the first time?

What about those who have never read a bible Bob, how would they understand spiritually that they were or are in sin?

As God says....please address scripture?...thanks.

The old illustration used to be the "Emergency Stop" cord in train cars. there were signs all along the cord, that said "Emergency stop DO NOT PULL. If a normal adult who could READ, pulled the cord without reason, the train would stop, and adult would be guilty of a "TRANSGRESSION", since the adult KNEW the LAW and broke it anyway. The function of the Biblical LAW is primarily to make SIN "Visible".

If a young child pulled the cord just because it was there, he would NOT be charged as a "TRANSGRESSOR" because he knew nothing of the law.

So either way, with or without understanding, the effect of pulling the cord had the same effect.

Rom 2:12 deals with those who break the law ignorantly. SIN is SIN, and SIN has the same evil effect whether there's a knowledge of the law or not, and SIN results in the death of the sinner with or without the law. i.e. "Ignorance of the law is NO EXCUSE".

 

[GeneZ]

So do you believe that Jesus Christ only made Salvation available ? Yes or No ?

I will give you a real answer.

"Yes or No" questions are usually used to trap someone to give excuse to attack. It can be rude.

Here is my answer that may anger you. That is, if your thinking is apostate in regards to the atonement.

He made salvation COMPLETE for all men.

1 John 2:2​

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours ​

but also for the sins of the whole world."​

Does that not tell you that every man's sins were paid for? Yes... or No?
That means everyone going to Hell had his sins paid for.

Matter of fact.. No unbeliever's sins will be mentioned at the final judgment.

Did that answer your question? Yes or No?

In Christ .................

 

[civic]

Dispensationalism?

Yep DTS.

 

[Ladodgers6]

So what?

You don't believe in it? Who cares!

I know what I believe. And, I know you identify with a group.

Stay there...

We live in human dispensations, let alone God's unfolding of Himself to man.

Believing in different dispensations or eras, is completely different from a paradigm that holds to various methods of Salvation in dispensations of time, correct? There is only one way of Salvation, right?

 

[GeneZ]

So do you believe that Jesus Christ only made Salvation available ? Yes or No ?

Do unbelievers reject the salvation the Lord provided them on the Cross?

That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, ​

who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe." 1 Timothy 4:10​

He is the Savior of even those who will reject his "offer." Its available to all.

If you believe God needs to force us to believe, as some do? You will have a problem with what I stated.

 

[GeneZ]

Yep DTS.

He studied under Lewis Sperry Chafer.

 

[Ladodgers6]

Do unbelievers reject the salvation the Lord provided them on the Cross?

That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, ​

who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe." 1 Timothy 4:10​

He is the Savior of even those who will reject his "offer." Its available to all.

If you believe God needs to force us to believe, as some do? You will have a problem with what I stated.

No Sir, here's why. Your universalistic view is flawed. I used to hold that view when I was an Arminian. Arminianism also holds to Total Depravity, and Arminius himself taught that a sinner is incapable in his lapse and sinful state, of and by himself, either to think, to will, or to do that which is really good; but it is necessary for him to be regenerated and renewed in his intellect, affections or will, and in all his powers, by God in Christ through Holy Spirit. Why did Arminius believe this and teach it? Because it is Biblical truth and the Calvinist position also holds this view.

Arminius knew that the only way for a sinner to come to Faith is to be regenerated by God! Where he errored is saying that this regenerating power of God can be resisted and that Faith is not a gift from God. But both of these ideas contradict the depravity of man in his lapse and sinful state disposition. Here's why. If man is incapable to think, to will, or to do anything without God's regenerating power of the Holy Spirit in Christ. How on earth can a sinful man claim anything? If everything we need is given by God, how can a man boast as he did not?

1 Cor. 4:7 For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?

But as I said before, your universalistic view says that everyone receives the same amount of whatever to come to a decision, correct? What does this entail? Does everyone receive the same amount illumination from the Spirit? Do they receive the same amount of understanding and sight? Can they hear Christ's voice? Is the truth instilled into everyone's hearts and minds? What is all this called in your universalistic view? Why does Christ contradict your universalistic view.

John 10: 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

​

John 8:47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

But the irony in your universalistic view, is that it's not effectual, correct. So what is. What brings the sinful man to Faith? Man or God?