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The Witch of Endor and King Sauls Disobedience

Hobie

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The Witch of Endor story in the bible has some wondering if this is allowed by God and the implications. So lets look at the story and what it shows on King Saul's disobedience, especially on Gods view of witchcraft, wizards, or those that use divination.

1 Samuel 28:3-20
3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land.
4 And the Philistines gathered themselves together, and came and pitched in Shunem: and Saul gathered all Israel together, and they pitched in Gilboa.
5 And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled.
6 And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.
9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
10 And Saul sware to her by the Lord, saying, As the Lord liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.
11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the Lord is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?
17 And the Lord hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the Lord hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:
18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the Lord, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the Lord done this thing unto thee this day.
19 Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the Lord also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
20 Then Saul fell straightway all along on the earth, and was sore afraid, because of the words of Samuel: and there was no strength in him; for he had eaten no bread all the day, nor all the night.

Now Witches and Wizards had been sentenced to death and banned from the land, we see in verse 3 'And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land' and Leviticus 20:27..
Leviticus 20:27
27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

But now King Saul has a problem as God had departed from Saul and would not communicate with him, so he disobeys God and goes looking for someone that had familiar spirits, expressly as God forbid. We see it in verse 7, 'Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.'

Samuel was supposedly brought up out of the earth as we see it said several times, 'ascending out of the earth,' 'cometh up," and "bring me up.' So clearly its a unclean spirit pretending to be but not Samuel, even those who try to claim we have 'immortal souls' would not say this is Samuel.

Samuel is described as an old man covered with a mantle. We see in verse14, 'An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle', and notice King Saul didnt see anything but asked, 'what sawest thou?' So not only did King Saul disobey God but now he is allowing himself to be deceived as it says 'And Saul perceived that it was Samuel'.

Did God obey the beck and call of the witch and raise up Samuel? Of course not, so this is nothing but a demon pretending to be Samuel, and King Saul no choice now and has to throw in his lot with this unclean spirit. So he asks, God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.' The demon clearly has him helpless and even taunts him, 'Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the Lord is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?'

And it gets worse as the demon then tells King Saul 'and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the Lord also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.' Saul committed suicide on the battlefield the next day. Where did this demon pretending to be Samuel dwell, if Saul who had turned against God, was to go to the same place?

The Bible never says that Saul saw Samuel. He received his information secondhand from the witch, and only concluded it was Samuel from her description. The truth is that the devil deceived the dissolute old woman, and she deceived Saul. It was nothing more than a devil-generated séance, with a demon pretending to be Samuel.
 
Both were deceived by the same legion . a face as a lying wonder as a idol image was needed to deceive a person he has the right lying spirit bringing lies through false apostles like Saul Saul bowed down to the lifeless dust he was formed of. . . mother earth to him
 
The Witch of Endor story in the bible has some wondering if this is allowed by God and the implications.
However, since the event wasn't what the "witch" expected at all, and Samuel, spoke God's WORD to Saul (dropped the hammer on him again), its likely that the Biblical account is accurate as given, and Samuel did appear, not because of the "witch", but because SAUL as King of Israel, needed to hear God's Word of rejection again.

God's not a "One trick pony", and He does whatever HE wants any time He pleases in whatever manner He pleases.

That it may not fit into the "theological box" we try to keep Him in is unimportant. God allowed Moses and Elijah to appear with Jesus , so there's no reason that Samuel couldn't do the same. The "witch" is incidental.
 
However, since the event wasn't what the "witch" expected at all, and Samuel, spoke God's WORD to Saul (dropped the hammer on him again), its likely that the Biblical account is accurate as given, and Samuel did appear, not because of the "witch", but because SAUL as King of Israel, needed to hear God's Word of rejection again.

God's not a "One trick pony", and He does whatever HE wants any time He pleases in whatever manner He pleases.

That it may not fit into the "theological box" we try to keep Him in is unimportant. God allowed Moses and Elijah to appear with Jesus , so there's no reason that Samuel couldn't do the same. The "witch" is incidental.
I agree. The simple reading says. "the woman saw Samuel" (vs. 12), Saul "perceived that it was Samuel" (vs. 14), and twice, "Samuel said" (vss. 15,16). and that Saul 'fell out' (in Southern-speak) "because of the words of Samuel" (vs. 20). There is no hint of fakery or deception on the part of what appeared, and Samuel didn't appear to be particularly pleased to be in the situation himself! There is no need to produce a possibility that the writer is using a literary device of speaking of Samuel "as it were".

I also agree particularly with the combination of the two things: That God is not a "One trick pony" —HE is the one running this show, and by that, I mean this entire reality, to include every event and participant in any event, whether physical or metaphysical— and that the "witch" is only incidental, and of use to God for the purposes of this event and all that follows it.
 
However, since the event wasn't what the "witch" expected at all, and Samuel, spoke God's WORD to Saul (dropped the hammer on him again), its likely that the Biblical account is accurate as given, and Samuel did appear, not because of the "witch", but because SAUL as King of Israel, needed to hear God's Word of rejection again.

God's not a "One trick pony", and He does whatever HE wants any time He pleases in whatever manner He pleases.

That it may not fit into the "theological box" we try to keep Him in is unimportant. God allowed Moses and Elijah to appear with Jesus , so there's no reason that Samuel couldn't do the same. The "witch" is incidental.

I would think that's one tricky pony.

We should be careful how we hear, what we hear, by who we say we do.

The context is Saul was completely cut off from all forms of prophecy to include a theophany as a vison (no literal substance)

1 Samuel 28 ;6-7 and Saul asketh at Jehovah, and Jehovah hath not answered him, either by dreams, or by Urim, or by prophets. And Saul saith to his servants, `Seek for me a woman possessing a familiar spirit, and I go unto her, and inquire of her;' and his servants say unto him, `Lo, a woman possessing a familiar spirit in En-dor.'

God did not set his approval on "necromancy" the living seeking dead relatives or seeking the disembodied men an woman of renown .

Today they are called patron saints officially (3,500 and rising ) A false vision came up to the witch deceiving Saul .

Moses and Elias body had long returned to the dust, Saul needed a name description (ID card )of Samael. When a legion, gods came up the the witch or mystic confirmed the necromancy .

The father of lies the king of lying signs to wonder after or marvel after (Believers, believe no need to wonder )

1 Samuel 28 ;13-u4 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul (deceived)perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself. (worshiped the dust)

Josiah a king like never before or ever again was used to show the power of all things writen in the law and prophets (sola scriptura ) the abomination as laws of dying mankind called sacred oral traditons of men . They sought after the dead (necromancy) through idol images (put a face on the legion )Like Rachel with her family gods

2 Kings 23:25Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the And like unto him was there no king before him, that turned to the Lord with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; neither after him arose there any like him. priest found in the house of the Lord
 
I would think that's one tricky pony.

We should be careful how we hear, what we hear, by who we say we do.

The context is Saul was completely cut off from all forms of prophecy
Except that SAUL had ALREADY had the hammer dropped on him Prophetically (1Sam 15:26).
 
Except that SAUL had ALREADY had the hammer dropped on him Prophetically (1Sam 15:26).
Hi Thanks

It would seem to be saying Samael said; You rejected ( sola scriptura) And he never saw Samael alive above ground .again

The mystic witch conjured up legion having not a clue which one . Saul helped her in his illusion getting the proper DNA ID image idol.

1 Samuel 15:26 And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.
 
Hi Thanks

It would seem to be saying Samael said; You rejected ( sola scriptura) And he never saw Samael alive above ground .again

The mystic witch conjured up legion having not a clue which one . Saul helped her in his illusion getting the proper DNA ID image idol.

1 Samuel 15:26 And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.
The witch didn't "Conjure up anything". God produced Samuel to drop the hammer on Saul again. The witch was scared spitless by the whole thing which was nothing like she expected.
 
The witch didn't "Conjure up anything". God produced Samuel to drop the hammer on Saul again. The witch was scared spitless by the whole thing which was nothing like she expected.
He dropped it (necromancy the living seeking the dead) on himself . he is the one that had the need for workers with a familiar spirit gods patron saint Our Holy Father is one God not a legion of fathers patron saint


Where can we find our Holy Father the invisible head, Christ in Catholicism ?
 
Hi Thanks

It would seem to be saying Samael said; You rejected ( sola scriptura) And he never saw Samael alive above ground .again

The mystic witch conjured up legion having not a clue which one . Saul helped her in his illusion getting the proper DNA ID image idol.

1 Samuel 15:26 And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.
That's just speculation, I think. Not what Scripture says.
 
However, since the event wasn't what the "witch" expected at all, and Samuel, spoke God's WORD to Saul (dropped the hammer on him again), its likely that the Biblical account is accurate as given, and Samuel did appear, not because of the "witch", but because SAUL as King of Israel, needed to hear God's Word of rejection again.

God's not a "One trick pony", and He does whatever HE wants any time He pleases in whatever manner He pleases.

That it may not fit into the "theological box" we try to keep Him in is unimportant. God allowed Moses and Elijah to appear with Jesus , so there's no reason that Samuel couldn't do the same. The "witch" is incidental.
The devil cannot raise the dead, that is not within his power, but he can have his demons mimic those who have died and turned to dust. We see it today in the apparitions of 'saints' and 'virgin Mary' the 'queen of heaven' and other ghosts and spirits of his minions..
 
The devil cannot raise the dead, that is not within his power, but he can have his demons mimic those who have died and turned to dust. We see it today in the apparitions of 'saints' and 'virgin Mary' the 'queen of heaven' and other ghosts and spirits of his minions..
READ THE WORD!!!! The "Dead" weren't raised. God allowed the prophet (in Abraham's bosom) to manifest (just like He did at the "transfiguration"). The "Witch" wasn't involved - she knew things weren't under her control. God just gave the prophet another chance to drop the hammer on Saul all over again.
 
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