• **Notifications**: Notifications can be dismissed by clicking on the "x" on the righthand side of the notice.
  • **New Style**: You can now change style options. Click on the paintbrush at the bottom of this page.
  • **Donations**: If the Lord leads you please consider helping with monthly costs and up keep on our Forum. Click on the Donate link In the top menu bar. Thanks
  • **New Blog section**: There is now a blog section. Check it out near the Private Debates forum or click on the Blog link in the top menu bar.
  • Welcome Visitors! Join us and be blessed while fellowshipping and celebrating our Glorious Salvation In Christ Jesus.

The Criminal & The Cross

Joined
Jul 31, 2023
Messages
357
Reaction score
114
Points
43
The
Criminal & The Cross
[“Today you will be with me in Paradise”]​

“Two others, who were criminals, were led away to be put to death with Him. And when they came to the place that is called The Skull, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on His right and one on His left” [Luke 23:32-33].

As the story unfolds, one of the criminals railed at Jesus, saying, “Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us!” [Luke 23]. But the other criminal dressed him down. It is strikingly interesting that although this man is charged with being a robber and a criminal, he believed in God. “Do you not fear God?” he asked the other criminal. He lectured him by saying they deserve their sentence of condemnation, “but this man has done nothing wrong.”

I am prone to believe this peacemaking criminal was possibly—and perhaps innocently—caught up in a crime he regretted later. I’m also thinking in terms that sometime, somewhere, during the personal ministry of our Lord, he was exposed to the Messiah’s messages. You will notice that prior to asking Jesus for His grace, he indicated a belief in God. “Do you not fear God?” he asked his fellow lawbreaker.

Although the ages and names of the two criminals are not chronicled, to some extent the one who addressed our Lord seemed to have known Him personally, for he addressed Him as “Jesus.” “Jesus,” he said, “remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Somewhere along life’s pathway he had been taught about an approaching kingdom or reign, perhaps by the Lord Himself. He knew something about an era where Jesus would reign.

Our Lord’s reply was—and is—simply beautiful and uplifting, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” Regardless of how ornery we’ve been, how ugly our behavior, how evil our lives, Jesus stands at the door of Paradise to welcome us in. Even though we may have fallen to the bottom of the pit, when we knock He hears and answers. What a splendid Doorkeeper and Rescuer He is!
More About Paradise
The scriptures seem to indicate there’s an intermediate state for the righteous dead—namely, Hades. It seems David is in Hades, as he did not ascend to heaven. “For David did not ascend to heaven” [Acts 2:34]. If David is not in heaven, where is he? In Hades, the unseen abode of departed spirits. His body was placed in an earthly tomb. His spirit, the real David, went to the Paradise side of Hades, as the scriptures seem to note. Even Jesus spirit went to the Paradise side of Hades when he died to await His resurrection. “Today you will be with me in paradise,” He told the criminal [Luke 23:43].

Some take the position that Hades was abolished when Jesus ascended and led the saved Hadean captives in His train [Eph. 4:8]. True, He took a number of saints with Him into heaven, for whatever reason, but I have my doubts about His abolishing Hades. For, after all, David was not in heaven, even after Jesus ascended there, as noted in Acts 2:34.

We must not forget that Jesus spirit was not abandoned to Hades, the unseen abode of departed spirits [Acts 2:31]. This one passage seems to establish that there is, indeed, an intermediate state for the righteous dead.

But what about the spirit “that returns to God who gave it,as the scripture affirms? Yes, even when departed spirits go to the Paradise side of Hades to await the resurrection, they return to God, for returning to any part of His domain, whether Heaven itself or to Paradise in Hades, theyre still returning to Him. At the resurrection, they will be re-united with their transformed bodies [see Phil. 3:21].​
 
Greetings Buff Scott Jr.,
The scriptures seem to indicate there’s an intermediate state for the righteous dead—namely, Hades.
I am happy to endorse Ethelbert Bullinger's rendition in the marginal notes of the Companion Bible., and this makes sense in response to the actual request by the thief:
Luke 23:39–43 (KJV adjusted): 39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, thou shalt be with me in paradise.
Your view is based on immortal souls that go to heaven (not the paradise here) at death, or some intermediate state. Jesus taught the resurrection of the faithful when he returns to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth, Paradise restored.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Greetings Buff Scott Jr.,

I am happy to endorse Ethelbert Bullinger's rendition in the marginal notes of the Companion Bible., and this makes sense in response to the actual request by the thief:
Luke 23:39–43 (KJV adjusted): 39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, thou shalt be with me in paradise.
Your view is based on immortal souls that go to heaven (not the paradise here) at death, or some intermediate state. Jesus taught the resurrection of the faithful when he returns to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth, Paradise restored.

Kind regards
Trevor
Trevor, the 43rd verse actually reads, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise." Both Jesus and the criminal died that day, and both went to Paradise, in the Hadean realm—that is, the unseen abode of departed spirits.

Jesus' spirit was Jesus Himself, as His physical remains were buried in a tomb. The criminal's spirit was the criminal himself. His biological remains were disposed of in an earthly grave.

Your "immortal soul" is a misnomer. Although "spirit" and "soul" are occasionally used interchangeably in the scriptures, the basic meaning of "spirit" is the person himself. The core meaning of "soul" alludes to a person's overall personality and biological makeup. I could add more, but not now. Maybe later.​
 
Greetings Buff Scott Jr.,
the 43rd verse actually reads, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise." Both Jesus and the criminal died that day, and both went to Paradise, in the Hadean realm—that is, the unseen abode of departed spirits.
I do not accept your theology of the so-called "Hadean realm—that is, the unseen abode of departed spirits."
I endorse Bullinger's rendition for two main reasons, context and doctrinal. Yes, I agree that they were both about to die, but this does not give much weight to determine which of the two views is relevant or correct.

Looking again at what the thief actually says:
Luke 23:40–42 (KJV): 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
v41: this man hath done nothing amiss The thief recognises the unique spotless character of Jesus, and in so saying he is acknowledging Jesus as the Messiah, and that through him there would be reconciliation and forgiveness of sins.
v42: Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom The thief acknowledged Jesus as Lord, a title for the Messiah. The thief not only recognised the sacrifice of Christ, but he believed that Jesus would be raised from the dead and in the future return to the earth and establish his kingdom upon the earth. He believed that at that time Jesus would raise the dead and reward the faithful with everlasting life. The thief knew that he would die, and his only hope was to be among those faithful when Jesus returns. His question then is to be remembered by Jesus in the day of Jesus' return.

Jesus' answer is in direct response to the thief, and consistent with the beliefs of the thief:
Luke 23:43 (KJV adjusted): And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, thou shalt be with me in paradise.
Jesus does not introduce a new concept, a new doctrine, but directly answers the thief's question. Yes, he will have part in the future Kingdom, he will be in Paradise. But the thief would not die having this as a possibility. He did not have to wait for a final decision at the return of Jesus. Jesus gave the decision, then and there, "To day". The thief would die having this extreme comforting thought, that he will be welcomed into the Kingdom, Paradise.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Back
Top