The Adventist view on Hell/Hades the Lake of Fire

[Hobie]

Adventist believe the "lake of fire" described in Revelation is the ultimate destiny of the wicked. It is where the wicked will perish and meet their fate and are punished with eternal separation from God as they are consumed in its fire (Annihilation), the wicked will cease to exist. The lake of fire is the Second Death from which the wicked meet their end which scripture shows happens at the end of the thousand years of the Millennium..

Revelation 20:7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The Wicked are "devoured" by the fire from God after the thousand year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven, all those who have not received the mark of the beast or its image scripture shows.

Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Key Adventist Beliefs on the Lake of Fire:

• Symbolic, Not Literal: It represents final destruction, not a literal, eternal fire.
• Second Death: It's the "second death" from which there's no resurrection, unlike the first death (sleep in the grave).
• Annihilation: The wicked, along with Satan, Death, and Hades, are destroyed, ceasing to exist, like stubble burned to ashes.
• Not for Humanity: Primarily created for the devil and fallen angels, but humanity who rejects God's salvation enters it.
• God's Character: This view upholds God's love and justice, showing He destroys sin, not tortures people forever.

 

[Josheb]

Adventist believe the "lake of fire" described in Revelation is the ultimate destiny of the wicked. It is where the wicked will perish and meet their fate and are punished with eternal separation from God as they are consumed in its fire (Annihilation), the wicked will cease to exist. The lake of fire is the Second Death from which the wicked meet their end which scripture shows happens at the end of the thousand years of the Millennium..

Revelation 20:7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The Wicked are "devoured" by the fire from God after the thousand year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven, all those who have not received the mark of the beast or its image scripture shows.

Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Key Adventist Beliefs on the Lake of Fire:

• Symbolic, Not Literal: It represents final destruction, not a literal, eternal fire.
• Second Death: It's the "second death" from which there's no resurrection, unlike the first death (sleep in the grave).
• Annihilation: The wicked, along with Satan, Death, and Hades, are destroyed, ceasing to exist, like stubble burned to ashes.
• Not for Humanity: Primarily created for the devil and fallen angels, but humanity who rejects God's salvation enters it.
• God's Character: This view upholds God's love and justice, showing He destroys sin, not tortures people forever.

I have two question and a pair of observations

1. Are you SDA?
2. Jesus used at least two other images for the scenario of final or "ultimate destiny." One was the fiery furnace into which the chaff was thrown. The other was the weeds were tossed after being separated from the wheat. Do you think there are three different fiery places, or one fiery place of destruction that can accurately (though perhaps figuratively) be described as a fire, a fiery furnace, or a fiery lake?
3. Annihilationism (or conditional mortality) is not held only by the SDA. Many mainstream/orthodox, non-SDA Christians throughout history have subscribed to annihilationism.
4. The SDA have a slightly different version of "ultimate destiny" annihilationism because they believe in soul sleep. That's a position that is not held by all annihilationists.

.

 

[Hobie]

I have two question and a pair of observations

1. Are you SDA?
2. Jesus used at least two other images for the scenario of final or "ultimate destiny." One was the fiery furnace into which the chaff was thrown. The other was the weeds were tossed after being separated from the wheat. Do you think there are three different fiery places, or one fiery place of destruction that can accurately (though perhaps figuratively) be described as a fire, a fiery furnace, or a fiery lake?
3. Annihilationism (or conditional mortality) is not held only by the SDA. Many mainstream/orthodox, non-SDA Christians throughout history have subscribed to annihilationism.
4. The SDA have a slightly different version of "ultimate destiny" annihilationism because they believe in soul sleep. That's a position that is not held by all annihilationists.

.

I think its clear I am Seventh Day Adventist so we can set that one aside, so lets go to what Christ said on question 2. We see
the words of Christ Himself of what will happen to the wicked at the end, in the destruction (which will be in the lake of fire/Hell/Hades)...

Matthew 7:13 King James Version (KJV)
"13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"

Matthew 10:28 King James Version (KJV)
"28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Matthew 13:40-42 King James Version (KJV)
"40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

Matthew 25:41 King James Version (KJV)
"41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

We have to repent or we shall perish as is see here, and how will the wicked perish is shown above, thrown into the lake of fire...

Luke 13:3 King James Version (KJV)
"3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

And Christ gives us eternal life...

John 3:14-16 King James Version (KJV)
"14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The wicked will be separated from God forever and ever, it is the end of sin and sinners as they will be destroyed and perish in the lake of fire.

But the saints have nothing to fear, Christ will take the saints to heaven when He comes at the Second Coming as He promised.

John 14:1-3
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Now as for observation 3 on Annihilationism, that unbelievers are destroyed and that the human soul is immortal only if a person receives eternal life and goes to heaven, you see above and we see what Kirk Cameron had to say on what he now believes on divine wrath.
Kirk Cameron said:
"Eternal judgment or eternal punishment doesn’t necessarily mean that we are being tormented and punished forever and every moment for eternity. It means that the punishment we deserve is irreversible. It’s permanent. It’s eternal. You’re dead. You’ve been destroyed. You have perished. You’re gone. And…you’re never coming back." So others have seen this even before him and understood it

Now as for observation 4, as you know the Reformers didnt come to their understanding immediately, but after much searching and study of the Bible. Martin Luther, himself came to the understanding that the dead are completely unconscious until the Day of Judgment. Luther came to these views after reading the Bible passages that showed a state of sleep or rest for the dead. This interpretation of this state given in the Bible had also been at least discussed if not completely understood by the church fathers and was understood and held by the Jews for the most part as you can see in the Bible one of which is Ecclesiastes 9:5, which states, “For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.” This verse clearly suggests a state of unconsciousness after death, and we find text over and over comparing death to sleep.

Psalms 13:3
Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death,

1 Kings 2:10
Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.

When Lazarus died, Jesus said he was sleeping.

John 11:11-14
After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.” 12 His disciples replied, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.” 13 Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep. 14 So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead".

Now you see the problem for those who believe you go straight to heaven when you die, clearly here Jesus compares Lazarus’ death to “sleep”. So if Lazarus’ spirit had ascended into heaven, why was there no mention of his spirit leaving his body? And we see more.

Matthew 9:24
He said, "Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him.

Daniel 12:2
Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

Daniel was told he would “rest” until the resurrection.

Daniel 12:13
As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”

If Daniel’s spirit was to go to heaven after death, then why was he told that he would rest. He was going to the dust of the earth as the Bible makes clear, so Daniel is now dead resting in the grave and on the day of the resurrection, he will rise, along with the rest of us.

 

[Josheb]

I think its clear I am Seventh Day Adventist so we can set that one aside...

Thank you very much for the immediate and direct answer to the question asked but no, we do not set aside relevant facts of any discussion. I appreciate the commitment to your point of view, but not the dismissiveness. Because annihilationism is a position held by many others, it is therefore valid, reasonable and relevant to ask you about your SDA, and invalid, unreasonable, and avoidant to deny its relevance. You should have just said, "Yes," and let your yes be yes. You may find you have a lot of common ground with others who are not SDA. Are you aware there is a recent op on this subject in which the subject has already been covered? There's another op HERE, too. Both prove annihilationism is not a position held solely by SDA.

, so lets go to what Christ said on question 2. We see...

That is not an answer to the question asked. I asked whether or not the different images should be construed to say their one single place or event that can be described diversely, or are there three (or more) different locations?

Now as for observation 3 on Annihilationism, that unbelievers are destroyed and that the human soul is immortal only if a person receives eternal life and goes to heaven, you see above and we see what Kirk Cameron had to say on what he now believes on divine wrath.
Kirk Cameron said:
"Eternal judgment or eternal punishment doesn’t necessarily mean that we are being tormented and punished forever and every moment for eternity. It means that the punishment we deserve is irreversible. It’s permanent. It’s eternal. You’re dead. You’ve been destroyed. You have perished. You’re gone. And…you’re never coming back." So others have seen this even before him and understood it

So there is agreement with Point #3.

Now as for observation 4, as you know the Reformers didnt come to their understanding immediately, but after much searching and study of the Bible. Martin Luther, himself came to the understanding that the dead are completely unconscious until the Day of Judgment. Luther came to these views after reading the Bible passages that showed a state of sleep or rest for the dead. This interpretation of this state given in the Bible had also been at least discussed if not completely understood by the church fathers and was understood and held by the Jews for the most part as you can see in the Bible one of which is Ecclesiastes 9:5, which states, “For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.” This verse clearly suggests a state of unconsciousness after death, and we find text over and over comparing death to sleep.

Psalms 13:3
Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death,

1 Kings 2:10
Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.

When Lazarus died, Jesus said he was sleeping.

John 11:11-14
After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.” 12 His disciples replied, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.” 13 Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep. 14 So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead".

Now you see the problem for those who believe you go straight to heaven when you die, clearly here Jesus compares Lazarus’ death to “sleep”. So if Lazarus’ spirit had ascended into heaven, why was there no mention of his spirit leaving his body? And we see more.

Matthew 9:24
He said, "Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him.

Daniel 12:2
Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

Daniel was told he would “rest” until the resurrection.

Daniel 12:13
As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”

If Daniel’s spirit was to go to heaven after death, then why was he told that he would rest. He was going to the dust of the earth as the Bible makes clear, so Daniel is now dead resting in the grave and on the day of the resurrection, he will rise, along with the rest of us.

First, that does little to address the point being made.

Second, Point #4 is not a request for you to defend the SDA doctrine of soul sleep. Point 4 is a simple observation. Many Christians who are not Seventh Day Adventists subscribe to annihilationism (or conditional mortality) and they may or may not be subscribers to the idea of soul sleep.

If I were to rebut the response provided, however, I would observe

• Luther does not define all of Reform Theology,
• Writers in the OT often misunderstood God and got stuff wrong (David, and the Jews, misunderstood the temple),
• The thief was told he would be with Jesus in paradise that day (Lk. 23:43 - so if the thief was unconscious, so too was Jesus),
• To be out of the body is to be with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:8),
• Paul believed his departure would place him with Christ (Php. 1:23),
• Revelation is filled with saints in heaven who are (consciously) worshiping Christ (Rev. 7:9).

That's just a sampling of verses that conflict with the premise of soul sleep BUT this op is not about soul sleep. I mentioned soul sleep simply and solely as a matter of distinction because not all annihilationists subscribe to the premise of soul sleep. That is the point being made. Nothing more. Annihilationism existed long before the SDA ever existed and the SDA are not the only people who subscribe to annihilationism.

Is the op intended to teach whole scripture, or is the op intended to teach Adventists SDA doctrine (this is the SDA board, after all)? Or, is this op intended to teach non-Adventists SDA doctrine? Are you hoping to convert others to the SDA?

Can we at least agree annihilationism is a position held by many Christians who are not SDA?

 

[Hobie]

Thank you very much for the immediate and direct answer to the question asked but no, we do not set aside relevant facts of any discussion. I appreciate the commitment to your point of view, but not the dismissiveness. Because annihilationism is a position held by many others, it is therefore valid, reasonable and relevant to ask you about your SDA, and invalid, unreasonable, and avoidant to deny its relevance. You should have just said, "Yes," and let your yes be yes. You may find you have a lot of common ground with others who are not SDA. Are you aware there is a recent op on this subject in which the subject has already been covered? There's another op HERE, too. Both prove annihilationism is not a position held solely by SDA.

That is not an answer to the question asked. I asked whether or not the different images should be construed to say their one single place or event that can be described diversely, or are there three (or more) different locations?

So there is agreement with Point #3.

First, that does little to address the point being made.

Second, Point #4 is not a request for you to defend the SDA doctrine of soul sleep. Point 4 is a simple observation. Many Christians who are not Seventh Day Adventists subscribe to annihilationism (or conditional mortality) and they may or may not be subscribers to the idea of soul sleep.

If I were to rebut the response provided, however, I would observe

• Luther does not define all of Reform Theology,
• Writers in the OT often misunderstood God and got stuff wrong (David, and the Jews, misunderstood the temple),
• The thief was told he would be with Jesus in paradise that day (Lk. 23:43 - so if the thief was unconscious, so too was Jesus),
• To be out of the body is to be with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:8),
• Paul believed his departure would place him with Christ (Php. 1:23),
• Revelation is filled with saints in heaven who are (consciously) worshiping Christ (Rev. 7:9).

That's just a sampling of verses that conflict with the premise of soul sleep BUT this op is not about soul sleep. I mentioned soul sleep simply and solely as a matter of distinction because not all annihilationists subscribe to the premise of soul sleep. That is the point being made. Nothing more. Annihilationism existed long before the SDA ever existed and the SDA are not the only people who subscribe to annihilationism.

Is the op intended to teach whole scripture, or is the op intended to teach Adventists SDA doctrine (this is the SDA board, after all)? Or, is this op intended to teach non-Adventists SDA doctrine? Are you hoping to convert others to the SDA?

Can we at least agree annihilationism is a position held by many Christians who are not SDA?

Sorry, Its my 'thorn in the side', I've asked God to make me humble, and all I get is strokes and worse, so its hard to keep asking...

As for annihilationism held by others, Christ it made clear, and as others begin to understand, like Kirk Cameron, there will be many more. As for location, the Bible is clear it will be the Lake of Fire where the final and eternal separation, the Second Death, will occur. I am not good at debating, I just go by Gods Word, so dont try to 'defend' any church view, just what the Bible gives. As for your observations I posted too many threads, and in doing so, violated some of the forum guidelines. But there are a few that may address them...
https://christcentered.community.fo...with-the-thief-on-the-cross.3457/#post-132028
https://christcentered.community.fo...ive-the-parable-of-rich-man-and-lazarus.3456/

As for the OP in this section, ADMIN created it, and as I stated, just wanted to 'get a balanced view' so am theoretically working on posting threads with all the Adventist beliefs. But I dont think thats needed IMHO, but some posters questions may need answers. So dont know what to tell you otherwise.. I've enjoyed my discussion with you as this is the way Christians should go over Gods truth, as formal debates and fighting over semantics or worse, is not what God desires, and this brings much more on every level...