Spiritually Brain Dead

[Manfred]

If anything it shows God has great power not to over ride the volition of others by always getting his way like a spoiled child that never grew up.

Really! You liken almighty God to wanting to get His way like a spoiled child!
I think your consept of God is very demeaning.

You create an incompetent God who is reliant on the will of man.
Try giving God alone the glory for your salvation, remove self and self accomplishment from the equation. Can you?

 

[GeneZ]

Every Calvinist believes in the Liberty of the Will...

Explain what that means, please. I can only guess.
Liberty of will, but not free will?
I called it "freed" will.

And, what do you mean by every Calvinist?

Look at what we have become...

​

What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; ​

another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
Is Christ divided? ​

Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Cor 1:12-13​

​

And, you follow Calvin. No room for correction.​

 

[GeneZ]

Really! You liken almighty God to wanting to get His way like a spoiled child!
I think your consept of God is very demeaning.

It is demeaning. Stop doing it.

 

[ReverendRV]

Explain what that means, please. I can only guess.
Liberty of will, but not free will?
I called it "freed" will.

And, what do you mean by every Calvinist?

Look at what we have become...

​

What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; ​

another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” ​

Is Christ divided? ​

Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Cor 1:12-13​

​

And, you follow Calvin. No room for correction.​

God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1 yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.4

Of God's Decree — The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith

Chapter 3

www.the1689confession.com

 

[Manfred]

Why do you believe what you do? No free will?

Why not answer the question?l asked?
My will was to sin. Whatever was of benefit to me in the flesh. That is what my will wanted.
God came and brought me out of the mire I was in and taught me to seek His will. He opened my heart and mind to understanding.

Are you born again by making a free will choice. By the human will. Or by God alone?

Not difficult to answer if you were honest.

Can you answer the above honestly?

 

[Manfred]

It is demeaning. Stop doing it.

I am certainly not the one comparing God's sovereignty to that of a spoiled child. It is your mind and reasoning that went there.
So no I am in no way or form demeaning God especially not by suggesting that He gave up His sovereignty and handing it over to man, as you did.

 

[Manfred]

Explain what that means, please. I can only guess.
Liberty of will, but not free will?
I called it "freed" will.

And, what do you mean by every Calvinist?

Look at what we have become...

​

What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; ​

another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” ​

Is Christ divided? ​

Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Cor 1:12-13​

​

And, you follow Calvin. No room for correction.​

It is comments like "and you follow Calvin' that shows us your true heart.
Why not say we follow Luther.
He wrote the bondage of the will afterall.
People resort to this sort of thing when they display that there is no room for correction when they want some credit for the part they play in salvation.

 

[GeneZ]

God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1 yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.4

Of God's Decree — The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith

Chapter 3

www.the1689confession.com

Do you have the liberty of will to try to put that in your own words?

Without using the King James English?

 

[ReverendRV]

Do you have the liberty of will to try to put that in your own words?

Yes, I do it all the time...

The Liberty of the Will is established as a Secondary Causation, without God offering violence to the Creature to get his way...

The Caveat is God doing nothing to us in order to get his way; that's Total Freedom to be a true Cause in our life. If a Calvinist Confesses the WCF/2nd LBCF, the Calvinist believes in Free Will...

Now; when a Calvinist says he doesn't believe in Free Will, he means that you don't have Free Will as a Primary Causation. Only God has Liberty of Will as a Primary Causation. He does offer violence to himself as a Causation of his Will, in the sense his Will is his own Volition; speaking on his Asaity...

 

[GeneZ]

Yes, I do it all the time...

The Liberty of the Will is established as a Secondary Causation, without God offering violence to the Creature to get his way...

The Caveat is God doing nothing to us in order to get his way; that's Total Freedom to be a true Cause in our life. If a Calvinist Confesses the WCF/2nd LBCF, the Calvinist believes in Free Will...

Now; when a Calvinist says he doesn't believe in Free Will, he means that you don't have Free Will as a Primary Causation. Only God has Liberty of Will as a Primary Causation. He does offer violence to himself as a Causation of his Will, in the sense his Will is his own Volition; speaking on his Asaity...

The problem I think hardened Calvinist suffer from is that they see not just the flesh, but the soul as also being inherently evil.

It takes some teaching to show that God creates every soul.
The fallen parents only create the fallen body for that soul.

Man is in his overall expression totally depraved as long as the flesh is allowed to be what it is.

Its the depravity of the flesh that enslaves the soul until that soul can be liberated from its dominance by God's power of grace.
Grace forces down the influence of the flesh which leaves the soul standing on its own to decide what its choice will be after given the truth.

God in His decrees also sees how each man would think if the man's soul was free from the depravity of his flesh.
God has determined His plan on knowing how each soul would want to choose if his flesh were silenced while making his choices.


I think that factor is missing.

 

[ReverendRV]

The problem I think hardened Calvinist suffer from is that they see not just the flesh, but the soul as also being inherently evil.

It takes some teaching to show that God creates every soul.
The fallen parents only create the fallen body for that soul.

Man is in his overall expression totally depraved as long as the flesh is allowed to be what it is.

Its the depravity of the flesh that enslaves the soul until that soul can be liberated from its dominance by God's power of grace.
Grace forces down the influence of the flesh which leaves the soul standing on its own to decide what its choice will be after given the truth.

God in His decrees also sees how each man would think if the man's soul was free from the depravity of his flesh.
God has determined His plan on knowing how each soul would want to choose if his flesh were silenced while making his choices.


I think that factor is missing.

Total Depravity; but that's a change of Topic. You also raise the Debate over Paternal Traducianism versus Creationism; in the sense whether our Soul is passed down to us by Adam, or Created fresh when we're Conceived. Also a change of topic...

 

[GeneZ]

Total Depravity; but that's a change of Topic. You also raise the Debate over Paternal Traducianism versus Creationism; in the sense whether our Soul is passed down to us by Adam, or Created fresh when we're Conceived. Also a change of topic...

Yet.. what I said about how total depravity works in man's fallen state (flesh vs soul) is not included in defining how God in His omniscience is able to determine His decree. That is why I brought it up.

When God saves a man He is saving that soul from its entrapment that was inherited biologically from Adam.
Its our flesh that manifests the Fall of Adam. Flesh is the cause of our depravity. The soul is helpless against it.

But, the Soul is the Lord's creation. God can not create sin.
A soul that is born entrapped in flesh that will not allow that soul to know who he is until after
God's grace tears away the blinders and shows him light. Its evil (not sin) that hates the light.

Jesus paid the penalty for every conceivable sin man ever had. That penalty has been paid for.
Therefore, sin does not send them to Hell.
Its EVIL that sends them there.
Evil is the thinking of Satan.

Those men who choose to think EVIL will join Satan in the punishment God originally designed for only Satan and his angels.

Its been so decreed!

 

[sawdust]

Are you born again by making a free will choice. By the human will. Or by God alone?

Not difficult to answer if you were honest.

No, I'm born again because God has determined to save believers.

Not difficult to understand if you think about it.

 

[ReverendRV]

No, I'm born again because God has determined to save believers.

Not difficult to understand if you think about it.

Have you entered the Kingdom of God?

 

[sawdust]

Total Depravity; but that's a change of Topic. You also raise the Debate over Paternal Traducianism versus Creationism; in the sense whether our Soul is passed down to us by Adam, or Created fresh when we're Conceived. Also a change of topic...

But they are related topics to the OP and for those who don't have the necessary background (or sideways) information can sometimes be left behind in understanding.

 

[sawdust]

Have you entered the Kingdom of God?

Are you asking me if I'm saved? I ask because people have different ideas on what constitues the phrase "kingdom of God".

 

[ReverendRV]

Are you asking me if I'm saved? I ask because people have different ideas on what constitues the phrase "kingdom of God".

As in entering the John 3:5 Kingdom of God...

 

[sawdust]

As in enteeing the John 3:5 Kingdom of God...

Then yes I have entered.

 

[sawdust]

Really! You liken almighty God to wanting to get His way like a spoiled child!

That's not what he said at all. He likened God to NOT being like a spoiled child. Try reading again.

I am getting the impression more and more that you simply let certain words jump out at you and run with any and every knee jerk reaction you can make.

It can become very frustrating and saddening when you are trying to have a discussion with someone and they can't even comprehend your simple statements but twist them around to mean what was never said.

Please, try to take a little more time in reading and thinking about what people are saying to you.

 

[GeneZ]

Have you entered the Kingdom of God?

How did you enter?

Once we became a new creation in Christ we were entered.
For the King is head over all the Church!

King = Kingdom.