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"SCIENCE VS SCRIPTURE"

TB2

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After "revealing" my science background, I sense some of you now view me as anathema and perhaps little different from a heretic. So, perhaps it would help to know a little more about said background.

I've discussed and pondered the matter of Genesis 1 for close to 50 years. I was raised a young earth creationist (YEC), have always had a love of the Bible with a secondary love of science, and recognized at an early age the two did not always seem to be in agreement. Thus, began a lifelong quest to reconcile the two. A quest that led me to degrees in biology and paleontology with plans to follow that with Bible degrees. But alas, life has its turns, and God had other plans, so I was never able to finish the Bible degree.

I, of course, assumed my YEC views, which I staunchly defended, would be vindicated. That, after all, seemed to me the only possible correct interpretation of Genesis 1. An interpretation that I didn't realize at the time was marred by the modern age thinking of which I, and everyone else is a product.

YEC is an interesting paradox. On the one hand, it denies modern science as the product of 'evil,' 'sinful' man-made 'secular humanism' and atheism, which seeks to undermine the Bible. Yet, on the other hand YEC is so desperate to find validation for the Bible via the same modern scientific methods that it derides. YECs pride themselves, as I once did, on being 'faithful' to the true, literal meaning of Scripture without compromise to worldly philosophies. But now in hindsight, I see what most YECs can't yet see for themselves: their inconsistency. Some parts of Genesis they interpret literally, but some parts they don't. More often than not, YEC twists science (into non-science) to 'fit' the Bible, but sometimes they twist the Bible to 'fit' science.

In my case, I got my biology degree at a secular university. I was hypervigilant and on guard the whole time ever watchful for the evil evolutionary conspiracies that I knew from my YEC training awaited me and that would seek to erode my faith. But I found it was all a fiction. It was all imagined. There were no conspiracies in academic science seeking to conceal 'the real truth' about evolution-creation from the rest of the world. I found spiritually lost people, sure enough, but no conspiracies. If anything, I discovered annoyance. Like buzzing 'YEC' fly in your face annoyance at how YECs routinely, incessantly cherry pick, proof text, distort, misrepresent, malign, rip out of context the hard work of research scientists. I discovered this to be true. I realized in hindsight I had been guilty of such things myself. In my zeal for truth, I had fallen into error: the error of disingenuously misrepresenting scientists' work (without realizing it at the time), which does *not* make for a good Christ-like example.

A-ha! Some might say. Your faith in YEC was still eroded by the 'evil' secular system just as predicted. But it wasn't, actually. My YEC beliefs were stronger than ever upon earning my degree. Ironically, it was not the secular system at all, but my next degree in paleontology that I did at a Christian university, while studying under some of the world's top, leading YEC scientists. But these YECs were quite different; a different breed altogether. They were nice. They were honest, respectable, loving, and shined the light of Christ. They still had all the same YEC beliefs, but they did genuine scientific research that they published and interacted with other professional scientists in hopes of bringing them to a saving knowledge of Christ less because of science, and more because of their Christlike example; instead of the more vocal activist-like YEC that does little to no scientific research and just takes potshots from the sidelines.

These respectable YECs were *honest* (you think that would go without saying, but it doesn't). They were honest about where the evidence does and doesn't support YEC. I learned from these Young Earth Creationists that most of the scientific evidence does *not* in fact support a young earth, and learned that there is actually little to no evidence for a global flood at any time in Earth's history. (And even educated me about evidence for evolution!). So, how then can you believe in YEC? The answer I was given was *faith*. We don't have the scientific evidence now, but we have faith that one day if we keep researching that the scientific evidence *will* eventually vindicate YEC.

Can you say throw for a loop? Never in my wildest imagination could I ever conceive of such a turn of events. But the most important lesson I learned was *honesty* as a scientist and as a Christian. Always try to be as honest as I can. There are some things in Christianity for which we have evidence; strong, powerful evidence. But there are some things for which we don't, and where the evidence even seems to go against us. And it's okay to acknowledge that. I find non-Christians are actually more open to the gospel, when you acknowledge that from the start that you don’t have all the answers.

*And of course, then after all that, when I looked at the Bible side of things, I discovered my entire apologetic had after all those years been all wrong from the start. Modern science doesn't go against Genesis 1, but neither does it support it. Turns out it has next to nothing to do with it! The two are largely apples 🍎 and oranges 🍊 that speak to different questions. I have learned how vitally important it is separate modern science from Scripture, at least initially. First, seek to understand what Scripture says, independently of science, and what does science say independently of Scripture. Failure to do this results in much anachronism, and reading back modern scientific ideas into Genesis 1 where they doesn't belong, and do 'violence' to the text. And it ends up missing the point.

*I've already noted the compelling evidence that Genesis 1 is a theological polemic against Egyptian pagan creation myths. But it doesn't stop there. There are many levels to Genesis 1, and its genre is unique: a combination of poetry and prose. "Exalted prose," as some call it. In addition to being an anti pagan polemic, Genesis 1 also seems to present creation as a cosmic temple of sorts in which God resides, and is ever present. Then in Genesis 2-3, Adam and Eve are described in terms of having a priestly function. The lampstand, branched Jewish menorah in the tabernacle and temple were actually symbolic of the tree of life in the garden.

*Throughout the Bible there exists this common thread that always seems to go back to God's Presence. God's Presence in creation from the beginning. God's Presence lost. God's Presence restored through the cross. God's Presence forevermore in Revelation where we see the tree of life again in the new heaven.
 
TO SUM UP: Let me explain how I "work" and my commitment to you. Scientific conclusions are always tentative. What we believe to be true today, could change tomorrow with additional evidence. Science is only ever a statement of our current understanding to date. My commitment to you is as follows:

(1) To always give you an honest appraisal of the current state of scientific knowledge to date to the best of my ability.

(2) To never let science influence how I see or interpret Scripture. Scripture must always be understood on its own terms.

(3) There are many times when science and Scripture only seem to conflict when I don't think they have anything to do with each other.


(4) When there are legitimate conflicts between science and Scripture, do not take my commitment to giving an honest appraisal of our scientific understanding as saying the Bible is wrong. To the contrary, it is me saying, "I don't know." "I don't have the answer." There are some things in Christianity for which we enjoy substantial evidence. Some things we don't. And some things seem to conflict or go against evidence. I believe it is important to be honest all the way around about all of it.
 
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TO SUM UP: Let me explain how I "work" and my commitment to you. Scientific conclusions are always tentative. What we believe to be true today, could change tomorrow with additional evidence. Science is only ever a statement of our current understanding to date. My commitment to you is as follows:

(1) To always give you an honest appraisal of the current state of scientific knowledge to date to the best of my ability.

(2) To never let science influence how I see or interpret Scripture. Scripture must always be understood on its own terms.

(3) There are many times when science and Scripture only seem to conflict when I don't think they have anything to do with each other.


(4) When there are legitimate conflicts between science and Scripture, do not take my commitment to giving an honest appraisal of our scientific understanding as saying the Bible is wrong. To the contrary, it is me saying, "I don't know." "I don't have the answer." There are some things in Christianity for which we enjoy substantial evidence. Some things we don't. And some things seem to conflict or go against evidence. I believe it is important to be honest all the way around about all of it.
One thing of many that are in conflict is the mentioning of Adam being formed first from the dust then Eve from Adams rib...as well as Eve being called the mother of all living....conflicting with the theory of evoism.
 
One thing of many that are in conflict is the mentioning of Adam being formed first from the dust then Eve from Adams rib...as well as Eve being called the mother of all living....conflicting with the theory of evoism.
1. FACT: Scientific evidence shows beyond a reasonable doubt that humans and chimpanzees share a common ancestor.

2. FACT: The Bible certainly seems to teach otherwise.

QUESTION: What do we do about it?

ANSWER: I don't know. I have ideas, but I don't have a solution that solves all the problems.

HOWEVER: Nothing in science changes or invalidates the theological truth being taught in Genesis 2-3. Lots of ink has been spilled trying to solve the problem by either showing how the Bible can be compatible, or by attempting to show that science is wrong. But even if we were able to find our "answer" or "solution" to the problem, it is still us today in modern times trying to impose on Scripture the questions that we want Scripture to answer, when Scripture's concerns are elsewhere. So, even if we found our answers, we'd still be missing the point of what Genesis 2-3 is trying to teach:

1. Adam & Eve were created mortal ("from dust you came to dust you will return")
2. Only God's life sustaining Presence (in the garden of Eden) can keep their mortal bodies alive.
3. God gives life (Tree of Life) and divine wisdom (Tree of Wisdom/Knowledge) as He pleases. They are His to give. It is God's prerogative.
4. Instead of humbly depending on God, Adam & Eve tried to replace God, and meet their own needs.
5. For their disobedience, God gives them a punishment that fits the crime (principle of lex talionis). They want to meet their own needs in place of God, so God expels them from His presence, so they can have what they want. As a result, they are cosigned to their mortality, alone, apart from God's life-sustaining Presence.
 
After "revealing" my science background, I sense some of you now view me as anathema and perhaps little different from a heretic. So, perhaps it would help to know a little more about said background.

I've discussed and pondered the matter of Genesis 1 for close to 50 years. I was raised a young earth creationist (YEC), have always had a love of the Bible with a secondary love of science, and recognized at an early age the two did not always seem to be in agreement. Thus, began a lifelong quest to reconcile the two. A quest that led me to degrees in biology and paleontology with plans to follow that with Bible degrees. But alas, life has its turns, and God had other plans, so I was never able to finish the Bible degree.

I, of course, assumed my YEC views, which I staunchly defended, would be vindicated. That, after all, seemed to me the only possible correct interpretation of Genesis 1. An interpretation that I didn't realize at the time was marred by the modern age thinking of which I, and everyone else is a product.

YEC is an interesting paradox. On the one hand, it denies modern science as the product of 'evil,' 'sinful' man-made 'secular humanism' and atheism, which seeks to undermine the Bible. Yet, on the other hand YEC is so desperate to find validation for the Bible via the same modern scientific methods that it derides. YECs pride themselves, as I once did, on being 'faithful' to the true, literal meaning of Scripture without compromise to worldly philosophies. But now in hindsight, I see what most YECs can't yet see for themselves: their inconsistency. Some parts of Genesis they interpret literally, but some parts they don't. More often than not, YEC twists science (into non-science) to 'fit' the Bible, but sometimes they twist the Bible to 'fit' science.

In my case, I got my biology degree at a secular university. I was hypervigilant and on guard the whole time ever watchful for the evil evolutionary conspiracies that I knew from my YEC training awaited me and that would seek to erode my faith. But I found it was all a fiction. It was all imagined. There were no conspiracies in academic science seeking to conceal 'the real truth' about evolution-creation from the rest of the world. I found spiritually lost people, sure enough, but no conspiracies. If anything, I discovered annoyance. Like buzzing 'YEC' fly in your face annoyance at how YECs routinely, incessantly cherry pick, proof text, distort, misrepresent, malign, rip out of context the hard work of research scientists. I discovered this to be true. I realized in hindsight I had been guilty of such things myself. In my zeal for truth, I had fallen into error: the error of disingenuously misrepresenting scientists' work (without realizing it at the time), which does *not* make for a good Christ-like example.

A-ha! Some might say. Your faith in YEC was still eroded by the 'evil' secular system just as predicted. But it wasn't, actually. My YEC beliefs were stronger than ever upon earning my degree. Ironically, it was not the secular system at all, but my next degree in paleontology that I did at a Christian university, while studying under some of the world's top, leading YEC scientists. But these YECs were quite different; a different breed altogether. They were nice. They were honest, respectable, loving, and shined the light of Christ. They still had all the same YEC beliefs, but they did genuine scientific research that they published and interacted with other professional scientists in hopes of bringing them to a saving knowledge of Christ less because of science, and more because of their Christlike example; instead of the more vocal activist-like YEC that does little to no scientific research and just takes potshots from the sidelines.

These respectable YECs were *honest* (you think that would go without saying, but it doesn't). They were honest about where the evidence does and doesn't support YEC. I learned from these Young Earth Creationists that most of the scientific evidence does *not* in fact support a young earth, and learned that there is actually little to no evidence for a global flood at any time in Earth's history. (And even educated me about evidence for evolution!). So, how then can you believe in YEC? The answer I was given was *faith*. We don't have the scientific evidence now, but we have faith that one day if we keep researching that the scientific evidence *will* eventually vindicate YEC.

Can you say throw for a loop? Never in my wildest imagination could I ever conceive of such a turn of events. But the most important lesson I learned was *honesty* as a scientist and as a Christian. Always try to be as honest as I can. There are some things in Christianity for which we have evidence; strong, powerful evidence. But there are some things for which we don't, and where the evidence even seems to go against us. And it's okay to acknowledge that. I find non-Christians are actually more open to the gospel, when you acknowledge that from the start that you don’t have all the answers.

*And of course, then after all that, when I looked at the Bible side of things, I discovered my entire apologetic had after all those years been all wrong from the start. Modern science doesn't go against Genesis 1, but neither does it support it. Turns out it has next to nothing to do with it! The two are largely apples 🍎 and oranges 🍊 that speak to different questions. I have learned how vitally important it is separate modern science from Scripture, at least initially. First, seek to understand what Scripture says, independently of science, and what does science say independently of Scripture. Failure to do this results in much anachronism, and reading back modern scientific ideas into Genesis 1 where they doesn't belong, and do 'violence' to the text. And it ends up missing the point.

*I've already noted the compelling evidence that Genesis 1 is a theological polemic against Egyptian pagan creation myths. But it doesn't stop there. There are many levels to Genesis 1, and its genre is unique: a combination of poetry and prose. "Exalted prose," as some call it. In addition to being an anti pagan polemic, Genesis 1 also seems to present creation as a cosmic temple of sorts in which God resides, and is ever present. Then in Genesis 2-3, Adam and Eve are described in terms of having a priestly function. The lampstand, branched Jewish menorah in the tabernacle and temple were actually symbolic of the tree of life in the garden.

*Throughout the Bible there exists this common thread that always seems to go back to God's Presence. God's Presence in creation from the beginning. God's Presence lost. God's Presence restored through the cross. God's Presence forevermore in Revelation where we see the tree of life again in the new heaven.

I would like to hear more from you after you have (re) read Lewis’ “Science and Religion”
“Man or Rabbit” and
“Two Lectures”
In GOD IN THE DOCK. Each are short.

He’s rather like listening, not to a chess master, but the person who invented the game.

On world cataclysm, I could talk for hours. Here’s the most curious of studies, however. Ager, THE NEW CATASTROPHISM. Page after page of colossal scale change from all over the world. Ending with a denial of a colossal scale change event all over the world…by
 
would like to hear more from you after you have (re) read Lewis’ “Science and Religion”
“Man or Rabbit” and
“Two Lectures”
In GOD IN THE DOCK. Each are short.
Thanks for the reading recommendation. I will do that 😀
On world cataclysm, I could talk for hours. Here’s the most curious of studies, however. Ager, THE NEW CATASTROPHISM. Page after page of colossal scale change from all over the world. Ending with a denial of a colossal scale change event all over the world…by
Yes, humans do seem to swing to extremes, don't they/we?

First, there was catastrophism. Then Lyell's (and nineteenth century geology's) *overreaction* to adopt the other extreme of strict *uniformitarianism* (only ever non-catastrophic, gradual deposition of sediments little by little).

This bias in geology against catastrophism kept Bretz 'Flood' in the Washington Channeled Scablands from being accepted by geologists for over 40 years. But eventually the evidence proved too overwhelming to deny late Ice Age Missoula Floods, when ice dams that bottled up ancient Lake Missoula periodically failed, causing raging, catastrophic flooding across Eastern Washington for months at a times, with mass scouring and erosion and creating 100 ft giant ripples! Pretty amazing.

php8lQM75.jpg


php2X6XVK.jpg


*Fortunately modern geology has come a long way (and we understand sedimentological processes much better, too), so Lyell's uniformitarianism is no longer simply assumed to be true.

(*Unfortunately, YECs still attack *uniformitarianism* and point to all kinds of catastrophic deposition that modern geologists believe are catastrophic, too! So, YECs end up wasting a lot of time attacking this 'slow-deposition' *strawman* that today's geologists don't believe in anymore).

Modern geology today simply follows the evidence and demonstrate different types of deposition experimentally in the lab as well as in the field.

It's actually a lot of fun. It's like solving a crime scene. You go out to a field site and read the 'clues' then put the picture together.

If I see a scour-and-fill like this that's evidence of rapid erosion and deposition
phpsS5wtn.jpg


If I see type 2 in drift climbing ripples like this, that's even faster deposition
phpw7XV3k.jpg


If I see massive turbidite sequences like this, I know that each one was deposited rapidly as single underwater landslide event

phppdWPD7.jpg


By contrast, if I see in situ reefs and stromatolites in carbonate rocks like these, then I know I'm seeing slow growth in shallow waters over centuries of time
php32AGzd.jpg


phpI9PQla.jpg


phpwIBm6e.jpg
 
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1. FACT: Scientific evidence shows beyond a reasonable doubt that humans and chimpanzees share a common ancestor.
Common creator, yes, but a common ancestor....no way. Evo-ism is impossible.
2. FACT: The Bible certainly seems to teach otherwise.

QUESTION: What do we do about it?

ANSWER: I don't know. I have ideas, but I don't have a solution that solves all the problems.
I know, you don't know.
HOWEVER: Nothing in science changes or invalidates the theological truth being taught in Genesis 2-3. Lots of ink has been spilled trying to solve the problem by either showing how the Bible can be compatible, or by attempting to show that science is wrong. But even if we were able to find our "answer" or "solution" to the problem, it is still us today in modern times trying to impose on Scripture the questions that we want Scripture to answer, when Scripture's concerns are elsewhere. So, even if we found our answers, we'd still be missing the point of what Genesis 2-3 is trying to teach:
The answer is...God did it. It was a miracle. Are you saying miracles don't happen?
1. Adam & Eve were created mortal ("from dust you came to dust you will return")
2. Only God's life sustaining Presence (in the garden of Eden) can keep their mortal bodies alive.
3. God gives life (Tree of Life) and divine wisdom (Tree of Wisdom/Knowledge) as He pleases. They are His to give. It is God's prerogative.
4. Instead of humbly depending on God, Adam & Eve tried to replace God, and meet their own needs.
5. For their disobedience, God gives them a punishment that fits the crime (principle of lex talionis). They want to meet their own needs in place of God, so God expels them from His presence, so they can have what they want. As a result, they are cosigned to their mortality, alone, apart from God's life-sustaining Presence.
For those who affirm our evo-ism...like you, when, why, where and how did the fall happen? Perhaps a chimp had a "sin" gene that mutated.
 
Are you saying miracles don't happen?
Did I say that?
For those who affirm our evo-ism...like you, when, why, where and how did the fall happen?
It happened when and where it did (garden of Eden), and the why was for the reasons stated in Gen 2-3
Common creator, yes, but a common ancestor....no way. Evo-ism is impossible.
The problem is we now have substantial evidence that humans and primates share a common ancestor beyond a reasonable doubt. Not only that, this evidence can NOT be explained by YEC appeals to creation by God "according to a common design." That argument doesn't work with the evidence we have. I will explain more if you'd like me to.
 
Hey, @CrowCross

While you're here, I think you'll like (parts of my) post above with the photos. Yes, we have evidence for slow deposition in the geologic record, but we also have evidence for rapid, catastrophic deposition, too. Scroll up to see some photos and explanations of this.

The Missoula Floods (Bretz' Flood) is a great story of evidence for a catastrophic series of events you might be interested in (see above)
 
Seems to me there is an ear/eye clash when it comes to evidence. Science relies on the eyes, whereas our faith relies on the ears...

Hebrews 11:3
By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

Genesis 1:5,8,13 NASB95
God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. [8] God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. [13] There was evening and there was morning, a third day.
Etc.
 
Seems to me there is an ear/eye clash when it comes to evidence. Science relies on the eyes, whereas our faith relies on the ears...

Hebrews 11:3
By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

Genesis 1:5,8,13 NASB95
God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. [8] God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. [13] There was evening and there was morning, a third day.
Etc.
I think it's the love-hate relationship w/science I mentioned. We love science when it confirms what we believe, but obviously don't when there seems to be a conflict. I like your quote! ("It's a dangerous practice to worship God in front of a mirror")
 
Did I say that?

It happened when and where it did (garden of Eden), and the why was for the reasons stated in Gen 2-3
So, when were the chimps moved into Eden?
Do you see your problem?
The problem is we now have substantial evidence that humans and primates share a common ancestor beyond a reasonable doubt. Not only that, this evidence can NOT be explained by YEC appeals to creation by God "according to a common design." That argument doesn't work with the evidence we have. I will explain more if you'd like me to.
Yes explain more. You have nothing that shows human and chimps...beyond a reasonable doubt... shared a common ancestor.
 
I now have time to give summary lines for
I would like to hear more from you after you have (re) read Lewis’ “Science and Religion”
“Man or Rabbit” and
“Two Lectures”
In GOD IN THE DOCK. Each are short.

He’s rather like listening, not to a chess master, but the person who invented the game.

On world cataclysm, I could talk for hours. Here’s the most curious of studies, however. Ager, THE NEW CATASTROPHISM. Page after page of colossal scale change from all over the world. Ending with a denial of a colossal scale change event all over the world…by

I now have time to give one line summaries of the 3 Lewis essays:

Man Or Rabbit. The Bible comes across much more as a statement of truth than of help. Since Lyell, people have been trying to preserve its help but not its truth, which is incoherent.

Science and Religion. Using a coin-drawer accumulation analogy, Lewis shows that science only has mathematics when referring to nature, and cannot answer questions of other kinds about it: psychology, criminality, even psychic.

Two Lectures. ‘By a sort of trick , a slur of speech, the audience was made to forget that the egg came into being thanks to an elaborate system and environment: a parent bird.’
 
Thanks for the reading recommendation. I will do that 😀

Yes, humans do seem to swing to extremes, don't they/we?

First, there was catastrophism. Then Lyell's (and nineteenth century geology's) *overreaction* to adopt the other extreme of strict *uniformitarianism* (only ever non-catastrophic, gradual deposition of sediments little by little).

This bias in geology against catastrophism kept Bretz 'Flood' in the Washington Channeled Scablands from being accepted by geologists for over 40 years. But eventually the evidence proved too overwhelming to deny late Ice Age Missoula Floods, when ice dams that bottled up ancient Lake Missoula periodically failed, causing raging, catastrophic flooding across Eastern Washington for months at a times, with mass scouring and erosion and creating 100 ft giant ripples! Pretty amazing.

php8lQM75.jpg


php2X6XVK.jpg


*Fortunately modern geology has come a long way (and we understand sedimentological processes much better, too), so Lyell's uniformitarianism is no longer simply assumed to be true.

(*Unfortunately, YECs still attack *uniformitarianism* and point to all kinds of catastrophic deposition that modern geologists believe are catastrophic, too! So, YECs end up wasting a lot of time attacking this 'slow-deposition' *strawman* that today's geologists don't believe in anymore).

Modern geology today simply follows the evidence and demonstrate different types of deposition experimentally in the lab as well as in the field.

It's actually a lot of fun. It's like solving a crime scene. You go out to a field site and read the 'clues' then put the picture together.

If I see a scour-and-fill like this that's evidence of rapid erosion and deposition
phpsS5wtn.jpg


If I see type 2 in drift climbing ripples like this, that's even faster deposition
phpw7XV3k.jpg


If I see massive turbidite sequences like this, I know that each one was deposited rapidly as single underwater landslide event

phppdWPD7.jpg


By contrast, if I see in situ reefs and stromatolites in carbonate rocks like these, then I know I'm seeing slow growth in shallow waters over centuries of time
php32AGzd.jpg


phpI9PQla.jpg


phpwIBm6e.jpg

Sorry but I see crust uplift from tectonic violence. The last photos are way too small of a sample for any tectonic theory.

Pelegríni I was also suppressed the same year Darwin was pushed by the Huxleys to attempt to undermine the US constitution premise and to support racism.

And then there’s giantism, longevity, advanced tech, interbreeding and insemination, etc.
 
Sorry but I see crust uplift from tectonic violence. The last photos are way too small of a sample for any tectonic theory.
??? I was showing you photos about sedimentology, not plate tectonics. Did you want to talk about plate tectonics, too? And the photos were not intended as a challenge. I was agreeing with you, actually.
Pelegríni I was also suppressed the same year Darwin was pushed by the Huxleys to attempt to undermine the US constitution premise and to support racism.
And people have misused the Bible to support slavery and racism too. We can't blame the Bible or someone else's work for people's misuse of it.
And then there’s giantism, longevity, advanced tech, interbreeding and insemination, etc.
You lost me. You'll have to explain.
 
I think it's the love-hate relationship w/science I mentioned. We love science when it confirms what we believe, but obviously don't when there seems to be a conflict. I like your quote! ("It's a dangerous practice to worship God in front of a mirror")
Seems to me, it's more like we distrust science when it runs contrary to God's Word.
Besides some things get passed off as science when they shouldn't. ( e.g. evolution)
 
??? I was showing you photos about sedimentology, not plate tectonics. Did you want to talk about plate tectonics, too? And the photos were not intended as a challenge. I was agreeing with you, actually.

And people have misused the Bible to support slavery and racism too. We can't blame the Bible or someone else's work for people's misuse of it.

You lost me. You'll have to explain.

OS has deliberate racism on its original frontispiece. It was the driver of ‘young Germany’ as a period. There is no comparison whatsoever. Marxists are professional vilifiers.

If you don’t know the Nephilim, you don’t know the kinds of things that matter in the text that resulted in the cataclysm. I’m talking about volumes of material of a bizarre world and it’s times.

So you have honestly never heard of giantism? Look up Rockwall TX, or Monument Rock, MT . Just to name a few. At Monument there is a perfectly cut 65 TON granite piece atop its base. So tight you can’t get a knife in. Items like this all over the world that big science never checks out.

“Alaskan mega-fauna was suddenly encased in Mile-deep ice.”—the AK state museum. Give me some hydrological Conditions and events that would produce that.
 
OS has deliberate racism on its original frontispiece. It was the driver of ‘young Germany’ as a period. There is no comparison whatsoever. Marxists are professional vilifiers.
Not so sure, but it doesn't matter. It's all wrong and misuse and abuse no matter the source. Better is if you dispute evolution, then to rebut it on scientific, empirical grounds.
If you don’t know the Nephilim, you don’t know the kinds of things that matter in the text that resulted in the cataclysm. I’m talking about volumes of material of a bizarre world and it’s times.

So you have honestly never heard of giantism? Look up Rockwall TX, or Monument Rock, MT . Just to name a few. At Monument there is a perfectly cut 65 TON granite piece atop its base. So tight you can’t get a knife in. Items like this all over the world that big science never checks out.
I know about the Nephilim. I know about gigantism. And I know about rock formations. But I don't understand what you are claiming, or trying to prove. Are you saying those rock formations are the remnants of the Nephilim? I hope not, because that would be nonsense, and like those who claim "in the days of Peleg the earth was divided" is a reference to plate tectonics.
“Alaskan mega-fauna was suddenly encased in Mile-deep ice.”—the AK state museum. Give me some hydrological Conditions and events that would produce that.
Give me a link to the specific research, and I'll explain it to you
 
Seems to me, it's more like we distrust science when it runs contrary to God's Word.
Besides some things get passed off as science when they shouldn't. ( e.g. evolution)
I would say the problem comes in even way before that: we misread God's Word as a modern scientific account when it isn't. What does Genesis 1 tells us about modern science? I would say next to nothing. Genesis 1 is not a modern scientific account but a theological polemic (attack) against ancient Egyptian pagan creation myths. Even the order of events is the same in many cases. Genesis 1 read like a point-by-point refutation of Egyptian pagan cosmology.

None of us can read Scripture 'objectively.' We all read it through a contextual lens. For most people, that is through lens of our own culture and modern understanding. But proper biblical interpretation requires that we interpret in the original, historical context. In the case of Genesis, that means the Ancient Near East (ANE) context. We can't *NOT* read the Bible through some type of context. It's just a question of which context we use. And the original context is always the proper way. The alternative is the error of anachronism (reading-back a later understanding into an earlier one), and results in all sorts of errors. Like how some people read Jeremiah 10 as a prohibition against Christmas trees before there was such a thing as Christmas trees; or read modern science back into Genesis 1 before there was such a thing as modern science.

The contextual lens we read the Bible through leads to drastically different understandings, so it's so important that we get this right by interpreting the Bible in its original historical context as it was originally intended to be understood. Take, for example, Day 3 of Genesis:

Day 3 of Genesis (understood in the context of modern science): The waters are gathered and dry land appears. This 'obviously' is a reference to ocean basin deepening, mountain building, and possibly plate tectonics. But consider this: there is no way that someone in ancient biblical times would think Day 3 is talking about plate tectonics, so that can't possibly be what it is referring to. That would mean Genesis 1 was written for us, but given to 'them' thousands of years before anyone would be able to understand it. It's also a little modern-centric; and makes the Bible only meaningful to us in our time.

Day 3 of Genesis (understood in the proper original, historical ANE context): The lexical, structural/literal, thematic/conceptual evidence shows that there is a direct parallel to Genesis Day 3 with the land/earth appearing, and the 'primeval hillock (hill)' in Egyptian cosmology that rises out of the primeval watery chaos. There were four main competing Egyptian cosmologies. And each has it's own temple and geographic location, like the Memphite Tradition & Hierapolis Tradition. Each of these different temple locations in ancient Egypt claimed that their location was the 'true' original primeval hillock/hill that rose of our the primeval watery chaos, and that therefore their temple god(s) were the superior ones. So, what's the point? Genesis trumps them all. Instead of adding a fifth different geographic location, Yahweh claims the entire earth as His own (not just a hill), that He is the one true Creator over all. There are not other gods at different 'hills.' There is one true God, over all the 'heavens and the earth.'

Different context. Completely different understanding! Which one is more likely to be true? The one that would have been understood at the time that Genesis was first written down. And plate tectonics 'ain't it.' Plus, consider the theological difference. If the modern scientific lens/context is the correct way to read Day 3 of Genesis, then Genesis 1 is reduced to telling us a list of facts about the world that don't really have any theological significance beyond the initial 'God created.' But the original context is rich in theological meaning, and far more powerful as an polemic (attack) by the one true God against false pagan gods of the time, similar to how the plagues of Egypt were not only literal, but also attacks on specific Egyptian pagan gods to demonstrate the superior power of Yahweh.
 
I would say the problem comes in even way before that: we misread God's Word as a modern scientific account when it isn't. What does Genesis 1 tells us about modern science? I would say next to nothing. Genesis 1 is not a modern scientific account but a theological polemic (attack) against ancient Egyptian pagan creation myths. Even the order of events is the same in many cases. Genesis 1 read like a point-by-point refutation of Egyptian pagan cosmology.

None of us can read Scripture 'objectively.' We all read it through a contextual lens. For most people, that is through lens of our own culture and modern understanding. But proper biblical interpretation requires that we interpret in the original, historical context. In the case of Genesis, that means the Ancient Near East (ANE) context. We can't *NOT* read the Bible through some type of context. It's just a question of which context we use. And the original context is always the proper way. The alternative is the error of anachronism (reading-back a later understanding into an earlier one), and results in all sorts of errors. Like how some people read Jeremiah 10 as a prohibition against Christmas trees before there was such a thing as Christmas trees; or read modern science back into Genesis 1 before there was such a thing as modern science.

The contextual lens we read the Bible through leads to drastically different understandings, so it's so important that we get this right by interpreting the Bible in its original historical context as it was originally intended to be understood. Take, for example, Day 3 of Genesis:

Day 3 of Genesis (understood in the context of modern science): The waters are gathered and dry land appears. This 'obviously' is a reference to ocean basin deepening, mountain building, and possibly plate tectonics. But consider this: there is no way that someone in ancient biblical times would think Day 3 is talking about plate tectonics, so that can't possibly be what it is referring to. That would mean Genesis 1 was written for us, but given to 'them' thousands of years before anyone would be able to understand it. It's also a little modern-centric; and makes the Bible only meaningful to us in our time.

Day 3 of Genesis (understood in the proper original, historical ANE context): The lexical, structural/literal, thematic/conceptual evidence shows that there is a direct parallel to Genesis Day 3 with the land/earth appearing, and the 'primeval hillock (hill)' in Egyptian cosmology that rises out of the primeval watery chaos. There were four main competing Egyptian cosmologies. And each has it's own temple and geographic location, like the Memphite Tradition & Hierapolis Tradition. Each of these different temple locations in ancient Egypt claimed that their location was the 'true' original primeval hillock/hill that rose of our the primeval watery chaos, and that therefore their temple god(s) were the superior ones. So, what's the point? Genesis trumps them all. Instead of adding a fifth different geographic location, Yahweh claims the entire earth as His own (not just a hill), that He is the one true Creator over all. There are not other gods at different 'hills.' There is one true God, over all the 'heavens and the earth.'

Different context. Completely different understanding! Which one is more likely to be true? The one that would have been understood at the time that Genesis was first written down. And plate tectonics 'ain't it.' Plus, consider the theological difference. If the modern scientific lens/context is the correct way to read Day 3 of Genesis, then Genesis 1 is reduced to telling us a list of facts about the world that don't really have any theological significance beyond the initial 'God created.' But the original context is rich in theological meaning, and far more powerful as an polemic (attack) by the one true God against false pagan gods of the time, similar to how the plagues of Egypt were not only literal, but also attacks on specific Egyptian pagan gods to demonstrate the superior power of Yahweh.
In post #10 I quoted...

Genesis 1:5,8,13 NASB95
God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. [8] God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. [13] There was evening and there was morning, a third day. Etc.

Are you making the case that evening and morning = one day is different in other cultures?
 
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