Possessionist Christology

[Binyawmene]

From the Christian history perspective, apostle John is refuting proto-Gnosticism, and the antichrist behind John's writings wasn't just Cerinthus but many antichrists (1 John 2:18, 2 John 1:7) like followers of Docetism, the other forms of Gnosticism. Gnosticism came in different fads and trends and then fade-out over time. Some historians suggest that Cerinthus arrived on the scene after the apostles was martyred and the only apostle that was still alive was John. Which makes him to be John's opponent so to speak. Others suggest that apostle Paul encountered different forms of Gnosticism, after all, he also taught the incarnate Son too. Now Cerinthus was an educated Jewish man from Egypt and was influenced by Philo of Alexandria. He travels to Asia Minor (or modern-day Turkey) and had encounters with Christians.

Cerinthus was of Egyptian origin, and in religion a Jew. He received his education in the Judaeo-Philonic school of Alexandria. On leaving Egypt he visited Jerusalem, Caesarea, and Antioch. From Palestine he passed into Asia and there developed τῆς αὐτοῦ ἀπωλείας βάραθρον (Epiph. xxviii. 2). Galatia, according to the same authority, was selected as his headquarters, whence he circulated his errors. On one of his journeys he arrived at Ephesus, and met St. John in the public baths. The Apostle, hearing who was there, fled from the place as if for life, crying to those about him: "Let us flee, lest the bath fall in while Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is there." (Source)​

What is Possessionist Christology?

Cerinthus' Christology: Cerinthus claimed to have angelic revelations, which is from a spirit, the antichrist spirit (1 John 1:1-3). He held to the position of Possessionist Christology which is basically one of the many early forms of Adoptionism. It's a denial that Jesus is the Christ by the assertion of two separate beings and the incarnation (1 John 2:22). He held to the position that there is a demiurge (who is a fashioner) that was with God in the beginning, the Word (Logos). And that demiurge created all things from pre-existing eternal stuff. While Jesus, on the other hand, was only a biological son of both Joseph and Mary. There was no miracle virgin birth by the incarnate Word (John 1:14, 1 John 4:2, 2 John 7). But a separation between Jesus (a mere man) and Christ (that demiurge). So at Jesus water baptism, it was Christ who descended upon him in the form of a dove, and literally possessed Jesus. That when he was adopted as the Son of God and Messiahship. And now he has supernatural powers who went around healing the sick and speaking with authority, etc. Then Christ would separate and leave him when he was on the cross, and there was no resurrection. Jesus will only be resurrected from the dead on the last day when all people are resurrected for judgement.

Questions:

Do you believe 1 John 2:22 is referring "Possessionist Christology?"

Or do you believe there is a deeper application for 1 John 2:22 and not specifically in reference to Cerinthus and the followers the Cerinthianism?

 

[Binyawmene]

Questions:

Do you believe 1 John 2:22 is referring "Possessionist Christology?"

Or do you believe there is a deeper application for 1 John 2:22 and not specifically in reference to Cerinthus and the followers the Cerinthianism?

For those who might be interested in Christological topics. My views on 1 John 2:22 verse is historically in reference to Cerinthus and the followers the Cerinthianism. But I would not restrict and isolate that verse to the heretical doctrine of Possessionist Christology only. There are other heretical forms of out there like Adoptionism which this verse can be used for apologetic reasons.

1 John 2:22-23 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

⦁ Adoptionism is a denial of both the Father and the Son.
⦁ Denying the incarnation (Christ is the Son from the Father in the flesh).
⦁ Denying the miraculous virgin birth (Christ has no human biological father).
⦁ Denying that Jesus Christ is the Son of God at birth (Christ was not adopted at baptism).​

Another example would be 1 John 4:2. Why didn't John used the language of "the begotten Son" or "the Word?" (1 John 5:1) But, he specifically used "Jesus Christ" instead, and for a very good reason too. John's writing style is addressing and refuting not only a particular heretical doctrine of Possessionist Christology, but also, Docetism Christology. So, when you read 1 John 4:2, what does John mean behind the usage "Jesus Christ?"

1 John 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

⦁ Jesus is the Christ is understood by the indication of 'Jesus Christ'.
⦁ Indicates that Jesus Christ is the eternal pre-existing Word.
⦁ Indicates that Jesus Christ is the incarnated Word.
⦁ Indicates that Jesus Christ has a real physical human nature.​

Those 4 outlines mention above is a proper exegesis. Because I have drawn out the meaning behind the usage of "Jesus Christ." The thing is, that Cerinthus believe Jesus has a real physical human nature but not in the same sense the Bible teaches. Nevertheless, he didn't deny the human nature of Christ. So I believe John is also addressing the heretical doctrine of Docetism Christology.

Docetism Christology: Basically it's kinda a mixture of both ancient Greek Mythology concepts and Biblical Theophany/Christophany. The idea is rooted that all physical matter is evil, and God is good. And God will not assume anything evil. So all appearances or manifestations was non-physical. For instance, Docetism taught that Jesus Christ, being fully God and the physical fleshly body was only an illusion, that God, "to seem, to appeared in human form" or "apparition and phantom". And Christ's crucifixion was 'only seemed' to have a physical body (or "God eats, God slept, God suffered, and God died"), but the underlying of all this illusion was God who is incorporeal, spiritual, and cannot physically die because all physical matter is evil. So in reality, what they saw, heard, and touched was only phantasm and not a real physical human nature of Christ.​

Would anyone like to answer the questions mention in the OP? Thanks.

 

[David1701]

From the Christian history perspective, apostle John is refuting proto-Gnosticism, and the antichrist behind John's writings wasn't just Cerinthus but many antichrists (1 John 2:18, 2 John 1:7) like followers of Docetism, the other forms of Gnosticism. Gnosticism came in different fads and trends and then fade-out over time. Some historians suggest that Cerinthus arrived on the scene after the apostles was martyred and the only apostle that was still alive was John. Which makes him to be John's opponent so to speak. Others suggest that apostle Paul encountered different forms of Gnosticism, after all, he also taught the incarnate Son too. Now Cerinthus was an educated Jewish man from Egypt and was influenced by Philo of Alexandria. He travels to Asia Minor (or modern-day Turkey) and had encounters with Christians.

Cerinthus was of Egyptian origin, and in religion a Jew. He received his education in the Judaeo-Philonic school of Alexandria. On leaving Egypt he visited Jerusalem, Caesarea, and Antioch. From Palestine he passed into Asia and there developed τῆς αὐτοῦ ἀπωλείας βάραθρον (Epiph. xxviii. 2). Galatia, according to the same authority, was selected as his headquarters, whence he circulated his errors. On one of his journeys he arrived at Ephesus, and met St. John in the public baths. The Apostle, hearing who was there, fled from the place as if for life, crying to those about him: "Let us flee, lest the bath fall in while Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is there." (Source)​

What is Possessionist Christology?

Cerinthus' Christology: Cerinthus claimed to have angelic revelations, which is from a spirit, the antichrist spirit (1 John 1:1-3). He held to the position of Possessionist Christology which is basically one of the many early forms of Adoptionism. It's a denial that Jesus is the Christ by the assertion of two separate beings and the incarnation (1 John 2:22). He held to the position that there is a demiurge (who is a fashioner) that was with God in the beginning, the Word (Logos). And that demiurge created all things from pre-existing eternal stuff. While Jesus, on the other hand, was only a biological son of both Joseph and Mary. There was no miracle virgin birth by the incarnate Word (John 1:14, 1 John 4:2, 2 John 7). But a separation between Jesus (a mere man) and Christ (that demiurge). So at Jesus water baptism, it was Christ who descended upon him in the form of a dove, and literally possessed Jesus. That when he was adopted as the Son of God and Messiahship. And now he has supernatural powers who went around healing the sick and speaking with authority, etc. Then Christ would separate and leave him when he was on the cross, and there was no resurrection. Jesus will only be resurrected from the dead on the last day when all people are resurrected for judgement.

Questions:

Do you believe 1 John 2:22 is referring "Possessionist Christology?"

Or do you believe there is a deeper application for 1 John 2:22 and not specifically in reference to Cerinthus and the followers the Cerinthianism?

It doesn't really matter whether or not 1 John 2:22 refers specifically to "Possessionist Christology", since it is a general warning against anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah - anointed one). As a modern example, it can be applied to Muslims, who accept that Jesus was a real person, but do not accept that he is the Messiah or the Son of God.

 

[Binyawmene]

It doesn't really matter whether or not 1 John 2:22 refers specifically to "Possessionist Christology", since it is a general warning against anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah - anointed one). As a modern example, it can be applied to Muslims, who accept that Jesus was a real person, but do not accept that he is the Messiah or the Son of God.

Also, another example would be Unitarians. They hold to certain forms of Adoptionism, and 1 John 2:22-23 is a excellent verse to use. Do you believe that believing that Jesus is the Christ is the result of being regenerated according to 1 John 5:1?

 

[David1701]

Also, another example would be Unitarians. They hold to certain forms of Adoptionism, and 1 John 2:22-23 is a excellent verse to use.

Agreed.

Do you believe that believing that Jesus is the Christ is the result of being regenerated according to 1 John 5:1?

I believe that genuine faith in Jesus Christ (and in Jesus as the Christ) is the result of being regenerated; however, there are some who assent to the truth that Jesus is the Christ, without being regenerated (e.g. some Messianic Jews, who accept Jesus as the Messiah, but do not believe that he is God).

 

[Alive]

Agreed.


I believe that genuine faith in Jesus Christ (and in Jesus as the Christ) is the result of being regenerated; however, there are some who assent to the truth that Jesus is the Christ, without being regenerated (e.g. some Messianic Jews, who accept Jesus as the Messiah, but do not believe that he is God).

This is an excellent distinction.

 

[Binyawmene]

Agreed.


I believe that genuine faith in Jesus Christ (and in Jesus as the Christ) is the result of being regenerated; however, there are some who assent to the truth that Jesus is the Christ, without being regenerated (e.g. some Messianic Jews, who accept Jesus as the Messiah, but do not believe that he is God).

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. So, it would be safe to say that believing "Jesus is the Christ" is not essential? But Deity of Christ is "essential" and comes with a warning (John 8:23-24), or in other words, if you don't believe Jesus Christ is the incarnate YHWH you will die in your sins.

 

[David1701]

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. So, it would be safe to say that believing "Jesus is the Christ" is not essential? But Deity of Christ is "essential" and comes with a warning (John 8:23-24), or in other words, if you don't believe Jesus Christ is the incarnate YHWH you will die in your sins.

Hmm...

A newly saved person might not know what "the Christ" means; but, once he finds out, he will believe it. If someone rejects Jesus as the Christ, then he is not saved.

Yes, it's essential that we believe that Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh (again, a new convert might not know the correct expressions, but he'll believe that they're true, once he does).

 

[Alive]

Hmm...

A newly saved person might not know what "the Christ" means; but, once he finds out, he will believe it. If someone rejects Jesus as the Christ, then he is not saved.

Yes, it's essential that we believe that Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh (again, a new convert might not know the correct expressions, but he'll believe that they're true, once he does).

Amen…and the is the express work of the Paraclete. Guaranteed.

 

[Mr GLee]

From the Christian history perspective, apostle John is refuting proto-Gnosticism, and the antichrist behind John's writings wasn't just Cerinthus but many antichrists (1 John 2:18, 2 John 1:7) like followers of Docetism, the other forms of Gnosticism. Gnosticism came in different fads and trends and then fade-out over time. Some historians suggest that Cerinthus arrived on the scene after the apostles was martyred and the only apostle that was still alive was John. Which makes him to be John's opponent so to speak. Others suggest that apostle Paul encountered different forms of Gnosticism, after all, he also taught the incarnate Son too. Now Cerinthus was an educated Jewish man from Egypt and was influenced by Philo of Alexandria. He travels to Asia Minor (or modern-day Turkey) and had encounters with Christians.

I would offer.

It would seem the word apostle must be defined seeing it is key in understanding the gospel. The idea that only apostle that was still alive was John I would think would not be part of the gospel .They were not crucified for sins of all the nations of the world. Every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Apostles = sent messenger how beautiful are there feet shod with the gospel of peace.

The Spirit of Christ that works in believers is still sending them out two by two.

It could be you and I. We must be careful we could be entertaining another apostles sent messenger .He might have a word or mutually need one .

Not Apostles = Highly venerable puffed up dying mankind.

A Catholic oral tradition that they must call "apostolic succession". a legion of what they call patron saints 3500 and rising his and hers gods in the likeness of dying men

 

[Binyawmene]

I would offer.

The idea that only apostle that was still alive was John I would think would not be part of the gospel .

This is an interesting thought. What's your views on 1 John 2:22?

Do you believe that Jesus is the Christ?
Do you believe in the eternal pre-existing God the Word?
Do you believe in the incarnate God the Word?
Do you believe in the miraculous virgin birth?
Do you believe a real physical human nature?
Do you believe the incarnate God the Word is literally the begotten Son/God, Jesus Christ, Lord, Savior, Son of God at his birth?

The Bible says, "test the spirits to see whether they are from God," (1 John 4:1).

 

[Mr GLee]

This is an interesting thought. What's your views on 1 John 2:22?

Do you believe that Jesus is the Christ?
Do you believe in the eternal pre-existing God the Word?
Do you believe in the incarnate God the Word?
Do you believe in the miraculous virgin birth?
Do you believe a real physical human nature?
Do you believe the incarnate God the Word is literally the begotten Son/God, Jesus Christ, Lord, Savior, Son of God at his birth?

The Bible says, "test the spirits to see whether they are from God," (1 John 4:1).

Hi thanks

Sorry in advance for the rambling helps me think .

I would offer the word apostle has been completely destroyed. In doing so taking away the authority of all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura) Giving it over to "I heard it through the law of the fathers grape vine, oral traditons of dying mankind

You offered the apostles was martyred and the only apostle that was still alive was John. It was the same kind of oral tradition of mankind called a law of the fathers they apposed sola scriptura .

The Pharisees with Sadducees used it falsely to puff up the messengers, false apostles. . . above the prophecy of Christ. It is needed for them to built a hierarchy of men that lord it over the faith or understanding of the non-venerable pew warmers or show time watchers .As if the apostles were the final authroity and not the living word of God . (1 Corinthians 4: 6-7) It is God who makes us differ fro one another as in "what do you have that was not given from Christ"

In that way God is not served by the dying hands as a will of mankind . He moves mighty men of old and new today. Not a private interptation of men (apostles)

If Christ so desires which he did perform, using a Ass an unclean animal to stop the madness of a false apostle (sent messenger) false prophet Balaam. . bringing the oral traditons of men.

Numbers 22:28 And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

.Job witnesses the power to move the mouth of the apostles.

Job 16:1-5 Then Job answered and said,I have heard many such things: miserable comforters are ye all. Shall vain words have an end? or what emboldeneth thee that thou answerest? I also could speak as ye do: if your soul were in my soul's stead, I could heap up words against you, and shake mine head at you. But I would strengthen you with my mouth, and the moving of my lips should asswage your grief.

It is used in Jerimiah. The call of apostleship. How beautiful are their feet.

Jerimiah1; 6-9 Then said I, Ah, Lord God! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child. But the Lord said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak.Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the Lord. Then the Lord put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the Lord said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.

Demonstrated through Moses and Aaron. Moses like Jerimiah, confessed he had no power(faith) .

Exodus 4:10 And Moses said unto the Lord, O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue. And the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the Lord? Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say.And he said, O my Lord, send, I pray thee, by the hand of him whom thou wilt send.And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart. And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do

The loving rule of the kingdom of priest men and women apostles sent with the gospel of peace

Exodus 7:1-2 King James Version7 And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.

The threefold power

Ecclesiastes 4:12 And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

He that denies the dynamic dual the Father Christ working in the Son of man Jesus. . demonstrating to the world the invisible. "Let there be" power to create new hearts that then can seek after his living word .

Some deny the Father not seen did not need the Son of man Jesus seen to fulfil prophecies. Others say the Son of man, Jesus did not need a invisible head . Two is the witness God has spoke .The original dynamic dual.

They that venerate the apostles give glory to the temporal created thing and not the invisible eternal thing the faithful Creator. (Christ)

It would seem the instructions needed to rightly divide or interpret the mysteries must be applied. The temporal dying must be mixed with the eternal living understanding

2 Corinthians 4:18King James Version While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

First recorded apostle/ prophet, martyr was Abel

 

[Binyawmene]

Hi thanks

Sorry in advance for the rambling helps me think .

No problem.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

He that denies the dynamic dual the Father Christ working in the Son of man Jesus. .

Thanks for your views.

If I am understanding you correctly, then you believe that the Father is the Christ? My bible says, "Jesus is the Christ" (1 John 2:22, 5:1). Which leads me to the questions I've asked. You can simply say, "yes or no" behind each question. Or, if you feel the need to elaborate behind each of them, then you are welcome to do so.

Do you believe that Jesus is the Christ?
Do you believe in the eternal pre-existing God the Word?
Do you believe in the incarnate God the Word?
Do you believe in the miraculous virgin birth?
Do you believe a real physical human nature?
Do you believe the incarnate God the Word is literally the begotten Son/God, Jesus Christ, Lord, Savior, Son of God at his birth?

Anyways, if you happen to believe the Father is the Christ. Then I'm sorry to say this; but you have failed the test. If you were living in Ephesus during the time of John. I am certain that John would have label you as the anti-Christ and a false prophet. I would like to encourage you since there is still hope. Maybe you should examine your beliefs to see if you are in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5). This way you can become more orthodox or having 'the right view' in your beliefs.

Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!​

 

[Mr GLee]

If I am understanding you correctly, then you believe that the Father is the Christ? My bible says, "Jesus is the Christ" (1 John 2:22, 5:1). Which leads me to the questions I've asked. You can simply say, "yes or no" behind each question. Or, if you feel the need to elaborate behind each of them, then you are welcome to do so.

Thanks

It would seem to be one of those two sides to a coin .Satan would keep Cesar's head up and no flipping to the hidden side .

The word Jesus like Joshua meaning Savior. It is I believe applied to both Jesus the Son of man, empowered by Jesus as Jehovah, almighty God who has become the savior. He saves sons of God.

Isaiah 12:2Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the Lord Jehovah is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation

Christ meaning the anointing one good teaching master. . will not share his glory with the Son of man, Jesus . Jesus the Son of man is a reflection to demonstrate the glory the father Christ. . not the source. . but as a witness of that glory son of God children of light .

It would seem Satan desired to keep the face of Caesar up and hide the power of the gospel . the turning of things upside down god .

Mark 10:16-18King James Version16 And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them. And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Two Jesus's working as one

 

[Binyawmene]

Thanks

I believe applied to both Jesus the Son of man, empowered by Jesus as Jehovah, almighty God who has become the savior. He saves sons of God.

I am assuming by the evasion of my questions that you are standing in disagreement. I do pray in your private time that you will examine yourself about that faith you hold. After all, topics like this in a public forum for others to read and respond can be challenging. But that's okay and I won't push you to answer the questions.

(1) Cerinthus often leads the lists of early Christian figures to whom an adoptionist christology is attributed. Yet the Cerinthus described in second- and third-century sources held Jesus to be an ordinary human, the son of Joseph and Mary. In some accounts, the divine Christ descends upon Jesus at his baptism and departs before Jesus’ death – what one might call a spirit-possession Christology. No adoption of the human Jesus occurs and the human Jesus never becomes divine. Later authors – including Eusebius, Epiphanius, Filastrius and the Anti-Marcionite Prologue to John – attest the same profile. (Source)​

I don't think you hold to the "Jesus Only" doctrine taught by Oneness groups. You do, however, hold to a different form and deviations of that doctrine. That's why I always ask you if you are a Oneness or a Unitarian because you seem to be in the middle.

The Bible says 1 John 4:6: "This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood."

You've stated: I believe applied to both Jesus the Son of man, empowered by Jesus as Jehovah,​

Did the Son of man (Jesus) become the Christ at his baptism or upon his resurrection?

Two Jesus's working as one

Yes, you believe in two Jesus' which disqualifies you from being Oneness. Maybe you are a twoness instead. Do you believe in the eternal pre-existing God the Word? Or do you believe Jesus (Son of man) was created by Jesus (the Father)?

 

[Mr GLee]

Did the Son of man (Jesus) become the Christ at his baptism or upon his resurrection?

God is not a man as us. Mankind cannot become Christ the one good teaching master

The Son of man born again Jesus became the first born of many sons of God (Christian's) Christ's Spirit working in sons of God .

In that way Jesus the Son of man is not ashamed to call us brothers and sister . We call no man on earth Father . . . the Christ anointing teaching master

Matthew 12:50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

 

[Binyawmene]

God is not a man as us. Mankind cannot become Christ the one good teaching master
The Son of man born again Jesus became the first born of many sons of God (Christian's) Christ's Spirit working in sons of God .

Alright. This thread speaks for itself, especially against Cerinthus and the things you (Mr GLee) are saying. Somewhat similar but in different forms of Cerinthianism. For instance, in Matthew 16:15, Jesus asked his disciples, "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Peter's answer is quite simple in verse 16 Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God". Peter identified Jesus as the Messiah who is the Living God the Son. Now let me see if I can articulate what you are trying to say. So, if I am understanding you correctly, then you believe that "Jesus is not the Christ." And "The Christ" is a different entity that is separate and independent existence from "Jesus." And you based this concept on the idea that "Mankind cannot become Christ." And your argument suggests, that:

a). Only a spirit can be The Christ.​

b). Jesus is a man and part of mankind.​

c). Jesus is not THAT Christ.​

c). That Christ-spirit only works through the regenerate, in the same manner, Christ-spirit worked through Jesus who is also regenerate.​

While John, on the other hand, teaches Jesus is the Christ (John 1:17, 41, 4:25, 17:3, John 20:31), he was not adopted to be the Son (1 John 4:15) or to receive the office of Messiahship (1 John 5:1), either at his baptism or on his resurrection, which is basically different forms of Adoptionism. That position is a denial of eternal Sonship, preexistence, and incarnation. "Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son." But rather, John declares that "Jesus" is a actual person (the Word that was with the Father) who is literally the embodiment of "Christ" or the incarnate Jesus Christ. They are not two separate entities (which you are suggesting) but are the selfsame individual person.

1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.​

​

1 John 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God​

​

1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.​

 

[Mr GLee]

Alright. This thread speaks for itself, especially against Cerinthus and the things you (Mr GLee) are saying. Somewhat similar but in different forms of Cerinthianism. For instance, in Matthew 16:15, Jesus asked his disciples, "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Peter's answer is quite simple in verse 16 Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God". Peter identified Jesus as the Messiah who is the Living God the Son. Now let me see if I can articulate what you are trying to say. So, if I am understanding you correctly, then you believe that "Jesus is not the Christ." And "The Christ" is a different entity that is separate and independent existence from "Jesus." And you based this concept on the idea that "Mankind cannot become Christ." And your argument suggests, that:

a). Only a spirit can be The Christ.​

b). Jesus is a man and part of mankind.​

c). Jesus is not THAT Christ.​

c). That Christ-spirit only works through the regenerate, in the same manner, Christ-spirit worked through Jesus who is also regenerate.​

While John, on the other hand, teaches Jesus is the Christ (John 1:17, 41, 4:25, 17:3, John 20:31), he was not adopted to be the Son (1 John 4:15) or to receive the office of Messiahship (1 John 5:1), either at his baptism or on his resurrection, which is basically different forms of Adoptionism. That position is a denial of eternal Sonship, preexistence, and incarnation. "Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son." But rather, John declares that "Jesus" is a actual person (the Word that was with the Father) who is literally the embodiment of "Christ" or the incarnate Jesus Christ. They are not two separate entities (which you are suggesting) but are the selfsame individual person.

1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.​

​

1 John 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God​

​

1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.​

God is not a man as us and neither is there any fleshly infalible mediator set between God not seen and dying mankind seen .

I have no interest in Cerinthus. We have the same authority as it is written (sola scriptura)

Christ as the father the invisible head worked in our born again brother in the lord .just as us today

His bride Christian was named after her husband Christ .

Some did know Christ our husband who worked in the dying flesh of the Son of man Jesus, .but that one time propmised demonstration of the lamb slain during the 6 days our father did work is over

2 Corithian5;16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Jesus the apsotle prophet is not shamed to call us brothers and sister in the Lord .We call no man on earth Holy Father.

Matthew 12:50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

 

[Binyawmene]

Christ as the father the invisible head worked in our born again brother in the lord .just as us today

Look at the black bold in the above quote. I cannot help you at this point. If you are truly regenerate, then the heavenly Father will reveal this to you.

1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.

Matthew 16:15-17 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven."​

Maybe someone else can lead you in the right direction.

 

[Mr GLee]

Look at the black bold in the above quote. I cannot help you at this point. If you are truly regenerate, then the heavenly Father will reveal this to you.

1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.​

​

Matthew 16:15-17 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven."​

Maybe someone else can lead you in the right direction.

Thanks

Eternal God is not a man as us and neither is there any fleshly infalible interpreter set between God our Holy Father and dying mankind seen. (Job 9)

I would offer if Christ the one spiritual seed is not after the father not seen .Then who is the Holy Father after. . . the Son of man, Jesus ? .

Jesus the prophet our brother in the Lord said call no man on earth Father

Again I believe Jesus is the Christ the one good teaching master . Christ the seed worked with Jesus the Son of man .The Dynamic Dual